College and Money

I watched this documentary show recently (called Current Vanguard, "Maxed Out," if anyone cares) about college students, debt, and people who went to college and are not struggling. It talked about several different people, but a lot of the show focused on a couple in their thirties who had both gone to law school. The couple were married and had three children and did not have very much money at all. They said that the husband got paid at the beginning of the month, his entire paycheck was used to pay the bills, and then whatever the wife could earn (she was self-employed, I believe) was what they had for the rest of the month, to spend on food and clothing and such. And the majority of the time, she earned very little. In addition to not having a lot of money, the couple also had enormous credit card debt, and since they couldn't pay it off, they had virtually no credit. At the end of the show, they had an update; the husband's student loans had come out of deferment (I think that's what it's called) and was costing them an additional $300 a month. As I said, both the husband and wife had gone to law school and were attorneys; they had racked up very large debts due to student loans, and they couldn't find decent work after they finished college.

As I watched the show, I thought to myself, "What's the point of going to college?" It used to be that you were supposed to go to college to get a good job and a good paycheck, but it seems like that is no longer the case. Jobs are scarce, and a lot of college graduates are unemployed or have huge debts that they cannot pay off because they don't earn enough with their current jobs. College seems to do nothing but cost a lot of money.

When I was in high school, everybody said that I could do great things or whatever, because I'm smart. Fuck that. Right now, it seems better to get a job at a store, an entry-level position stocking shelves or something, and maybe work my way up, or not, than to go to college. Because after I graduate, I may end up having to get that job at Wal-Mart as a stocker, and if I'm going to be there anyway, why not skip college and not get a mountain of debt?

But isn't that fucked up? Not any single part of it; all of it. It's all fucked up. But what can we do about it? Is there anything we can do?

I go to college for that "atty." tag in front of my name... no other reasons.

You should go to school to get the job you want, not just make money. And for some reason everyone going to college gets this crazy idea that they should go out of state to a university. Stay in state and go to a community college for 2 years, do well so you can get grants, then go to an instate university if need be. That'll save you TENS of thousands of dollars. Or be like me and join the airforce (not army or marines unless you want to be SHOT) so you get your college free.

If you are smart like you said, then you should have applied for bursaries for first year at least, if you have a good grades then you are more than likely to get one.

On average, people who go to college earn significantly more money over their lifetime than those who don't. I have heard the figure placed around $1 million, but I don't remember exactly. Either way, even if you go to an expensive school like George Washington U and rack up $200k in debts, the extra earnings are still usually enough to eventually offset the debt, even considering interest and the possibility of reasonable investment of some of the money from an average nondegree job.

Still, if you are worried about debt, there are ways to minimize the amount you have to take on. Firstly, don't go to the most expensive schools, like GW which is $50k per year for tuition, room, and board. The in-state tuition for a state college is usually much less. For example, the in-state tuition fees for the University of Maryland are only $8k a year, and even if you have to add room and board and live there, it only rises to $17.5k. Many state schools are nothing to laugh at academically. Maryland, UVA, and Penn State all boast a number of excellent programs for example.

To save even more money, you can go to community college for 2 years and then transfer to a state school. May of the community colleges have deals in place with their corresponding state schools that make it so that if you do well enough at the CC, the state school offers to accept you and allow you to finish a four year degree. Officially, you degree will be from the four year state school as well.

Finally, there often is scholarship money to be found. The prestigious academic scholarships offered by the schools themselves are often among the most valuable, but even if one is unable to get one of those, there are many private organizations that give out scholarship money, sometimes for less conventional reasons. I do personally know people whose work in high school was less than impressive, yet who still were able to come up with at least a little scholarship money.

Financial aid also exists in various forms, but I don't know much about it.

Also, concerning jobs: if you start college now, you won't be finished for four years. The economic outlook then will likely be pretty different. Even now, the job market varies wildly depending on what you study. So far, several of my friends who graduated with good marks from pretty good schools were able to find decent jobs. One guy got a position with the State Dept, another with Bloomberg.

White Lion covered everything I was going to mention with community colleges and state schools.

I went to school last year at my community college and actually made a profit.
The government gave me grants (not loans) to go to school plus additional money for living expenses. (This is in the United States)

With Financial Aid - a student must fill out a FAFSA every year. (The first time it seems oh god, what did I get myself into? but after the first time you get used to it.) Basically - the earlier you do it after your taxes are done - the more money you can possibly receive for aid.
It goes by your parents income and your income and how much your living expenses are compared to your income. It takes in consideration for the expenses, and if you're just getting by - expect to get a lot of aid. Taken for granted that you did your FAFSA early.

There's also subsidized loans which is another form of financial aid. These loans do not tack on any interest whatsoever, until you're 6 months out of school.

There's also thousands upon thousands of scholarships that will give you money just for writing an essay (usually about 200 words) about why you want that scholarship.

I just applied for one from a democratic group my grandfather belongs to who will pay me $1500 annually until I'm finished school. Wanna know what I had to do?
I had to tell them what my hobbies were, what my ambitions and goals were with my career that I'd obtain from college, and a letter written by somebody in the faculty of my college to write how I deserve the money.

The last part was easy since I worked in the admissions at my college...

Right now I'm working on my undergrad. I'm going for a bachelors degree and then going to Life University to get my doctors degree. I thought I'd go there earlier - but 20k a semester isn't cheap. So I backed away and plan to go when I absolutely have to.

College is actually more important than ever now in today's time. Go on monster.com and see how many jobs require you to have some college.
I know from first experience right now that store stockers are not hiring and companies are going out of business.

I believe it's very hard for somebody to get a good paying job now without some training or higher education. There's of course exceptions, but overall - right now more people are going to college.

It just depends how you go about it.

Most college students fall under a fallacy that getting a good degree at college automatically gets them a job quickly and easily with a modest enough income. No.

What's the point of getting to college? Simple. Qualifications and certifications. A college degree gives employers assurance that this applicant is a well-grounded person with certified skills learned from college. If you think you do not need a college degree, better think twice. Employers will be more wary of applicants who "claim" to have the skills for the job, and most employers do not give chances for these applicants to prove they do have it. Most likely these non-degree applicants' resumes end up in the shredder.

College will never assure you a good job or a good paycheck. What it does is give you the tools to find a good job with a good paycheck. You'll still have to do the dirty work.

Even if people get out of college, even with cum laude status, they still have to find a job the hard way. Sending resumes. Possibly taking job-related exams. Going to interviews. Impressing the employer fair enough to be given the job.

Also employers do look at how well you did in college. I mean, employers will not like students who lived through college hovering within inches off the minimum passing grade limit.

Regarding that "debt" most students rack up during college years from loans and credits, they do know what they're getting into, do they? First off, there are good pricey universities and there are good universities. It's like the golden rule of "living within your means". And people who get student loans should think first if they can actually pay it off before getting it.

Go to college to learn what you want to, so you can get the job you want. I think people worry to much about money and should try and get the job you want and will enjoy rather than the one that makes you the most money. Confucius said “If you enjoy what you do, you will never work another day in your life” and then spending money to enjoy yourself won’t matter just what you need to spend it on.

If it’s debt that is the problem it’s not that big of one. Everyone will have some debt in their life at some point it’s a matter of the level of education in this case. The higher the education the more money that knowledge is worth and so the more you need to spend. With that high education though you are able to do jobs the pay a lot more, because so few can do those jobs. It’s like they say to have to spend money to make money. Is college always going to pay off with more money no, but statistically speaking like whitelion said people who have college education make more money and eventually break the balance of debt and will be paid off.

Random Fun Fact: 50% of British college graduates will not find a job and suffer forever in crushing debt.

Whether college is worth it depends on your goals, your background and your major really.
If you're not from an upper-class background and are only in it for the money, college will possibly not be all that great. Specialized technicians (CNC operators, FCs, etc.) beat the living shit out of most academics in terms of sheer income and job opportunities, bar dentists and lawyers. In these specialized technical trades, job experience is everything and no amount of college degrees will do you any good.
If you're from an upper-class background and thus have the connections to get into a proper business or take over daddy's practice or whatever - college is the way to go, as it will fit you with the credentials you need.

If you're planning to go for a dime-a-dozen MBA or a major in Tibetology or something along those lines, chances are very slim that you'll find a high-paying job after college. You'll just be doing the internship runaround.
If you however specialize in subjects few to no people want and can finish, your chances will skyrocket. For example, emulsion chemistry - there's five to six capable emulsion chemists in the world, so if you're willing to bust your balls on a subject as terrifying as that, your chances will look up.


Now, as for idle personal observations:

There was an article on the front page of MSN about how if you took the money you spent on college and invested it instead of going to college, you would retire with 1.5x more money then the guy who did go.

I really think it's how responsible and how much a person is willing to put forth in their education.
If they're going to a private school just to get their undergraduate - they're wasting money. Instead of paying 20-50 grand a semester they could have spent 3k a semester at a community college and then 5-10k at a state school to finish up.

I think it depends if the person tries to get financial aid, if they don't qualify for it, then apply for scholarships, there's absolutely no excuse not to be applying for them - they're so easy and there's a fuck ton of them.

A scholarship might pay for only $500 of you $15,000 - but in retrospect, that's $500 you don't have to pay back.

Alot of people don't qualify for ANYTHING because they screwed up in highschool...
Do good in school all you underage people who aren't supposed to be here! Or you'll have to pay a shitload of student loans!

And again, I have NO idea why people go out of state when they don't need to, it is such a waste of money...

If your so smart like you said
why don't you get your self in college
after you graduate you can earn more
all you cost in college will be paid off
take some Computer course like Computer Science or Information Technology
if you BS graduate it will be easy for you to get a job
if you get in a company you will be pay by 50,000 or more or less
you can earn more than working in Wal-Mart........

Going to college isn't just about money, it is about getting the job you want to. Shoot, if you want to be a social worker you have to go to college, and they don't get paid anything.

I think it is worth pointing out that this is still very different from going directly from high school to being a Walmart employee. You still have to study and become qualified and certified in the field before you can start to build up job experience. There are definitely opportunities to be had in this manner, but it's not quite the same thing as discontinuing education after high school.



Business seems to be a high variance deal. There are opportunities to make quite a lot of money with business degrees, but at the same time, it is a crowded field and if you don't stand out, you could easily end up without a nice job.

As for superspecializing, as long as it is something that there is demand for. There are very few people with degrees in Dalcroze Eurhythmics, but there is not a lot of demand for Eurhythmicists.



Well, yes and no. Studies have shown that in the long run, going to Harvard instead of the University of Maryland doesn't mean that you will make significantly more money on average once enough time has elapsed. Still, there is a reason people want to go to Harvard and not Bowie State. Coming out of school, all else equal, the guy with the Harvard degree is going to have an advantage starting out with regard to jobs and grad school. This doesn't mean that the Harvard guy will stay ahead if he doesn't put in good work and get results, or that the Bowie State guy can't put in better work and overtake the Harvard guy tens years in the future in terms of prestige and paycheck. Still, while the value you get in terms of (money expended/money earned) goes down by going to more expensive colleges, you are paying for something: prestige that can let you start out a little easier or a little further ahead.

I think that regardless, some form of post high school education is definitely a good idea, whether college, tech school, trade school, or another route.

After your first employer, people don't give a crap where you went to college. They want to know if you can perform, and if you can obtain results. My buddy went to a community college in Portland,then to Oregon State for a year. He is now the VP of Better Petroluem for the Northwestern region of the US.

Yeah, naturally. I know several people in the entertainment industry (RSN, EA, RAI) who were hired with little to no formal advanced education, but they, too, had to acquire a set of skills of some sort that are the required industry standard. Doesn't matter whether it's college, auto-didactics or a polytech-type education: At the end of the day you have the skills to show or the going will be tough; even tougher than it already is in this day and age.


Hence the riff on Tibetology ;>

Actually, I loved school. I got tired of writing papers on every single subject after doing it for three and a half years, but I wouldn't say I hate it. But I'm not really the issue here. :)

From what I've seen in this thread, it seems that a lot of people think you should only go to college to get the job you want. The thing is, is it worth it? Is it really worth going to college for years and getting a big pile of debt if you're only going to end up working at a restaurant for five years after graduating? Because that's what I've often seen, people not able to find jobs that use their degrees. Just because you want to be a psychologist, that doesn't mean you'll be able to find a job as a psychologist. Do you really want to take that risk? You could end up never getting the job you want. If that's the case, why not avoid the debt and go ahead and get a job you don't like? That way, at least you'd be able to improve your standard of living and start saviing sooner.