Weapons

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what do you say

Total Votes : 149
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Power-Senpai This is very custom.
Coconutt wrote...
Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Guns don't need to completely disappear either from our reach, but regulation as to who can own one, and how kt is kept should become more strict. That way mentally unstable people will have a harder time getting guns, and hopefully guns will be held away from children better.


I totally agree with you on that. Even though i might sound little like a 'gun nut' here by advocating that everybody should have the right to bear arms, i still totally agree with you that there should be very strict rules as to who can get one.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
What i said above badly answers what i believe there, and i live in Norway which is basically gunless, so of course my point of view is not completely objective, just as an American with a gun would not be since it might end up with having to part with it.


I live in Finland and we also are almost a gunless nation without the hunting weapons people have. I get it that we usually think that "what works here, works on other countries as well" but when you look at the world you should realize pretty fast that that isn't the case.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Different situations will happen in different countries, and i am not tailoring what i am saying for violent countries, bit rather places that is peaceful like USA, Scandinavian countries, Canada, Australia and so on.


But that is why you should not push your morals (or even advocate them) onto others if you don't even apply them to everybody. If you pick and choose your morals depending on what part of the world we are talking about, you don't really have morals then. It is a double standard and that is hypocrisy.

I totally understand that different rules and standards work in different parts of the world, but if there is a moral standard that you are supporting, it should be the same for everybody.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
And also if the guns are banned in oppressive countries, then getting guns legally for the resistance group would end up difficult anyways, and illegal means is simply a step for the resistance force to use to end the hard times.


I understand, that is why we have to fight for our rights before the government becomes oppressive.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
True except that people don't need guns to get to work, nor do they need guns to keep their diabetes or heart in check, nor do they need guns to prepare their food.


We need guns for something as if not even more important, self defense.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Guns can be used for good, but also gives it's user a sense of power, and possibility.


Yes, like small women who now has the real means to defend her self against a strong man.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
People who get their guns who might not had done anything otherwise might do something they might regret.


The same way people do and regret things with everything else they get their hands on. There will always be consequences, there will always be accidents, there will always be the few who are out there to spoil everything for the rest.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Even if they do save themselves with a gun, the scar of having killed someone with it might rest on them for their entire lives.


Is having that scar worse than being dead?


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Also i would believe that if you would cling to your gun anywhere you go it would make you feel more paranoid, and uncomfortable.


I actually don't have a gun or even the license to use one, so i wouldn't know that.


Well my belief is not to eradicate guns, but have very strict regulations for them, but if i were to choose in a more extreme, then it would be for it to be limited to only licensed proffesionals.

Things are not simply "morals" but also ideals. Saying that morals have to be applicable equally to everyone follows a certain ideal, and it is not one i need to agree with, even if you find it to be hipocrisy

How would you fight for your rights in beforehand? It is after they become oppresive that you lose your rights after all, and neither is it a sudden change, as things don't tend to be that simple.

Self defence at a high risk and/or maybe cost.

Or a man/woman gets charmed by its power and does something unforgivable.

Of course the acts of few should not change the rights of many, but considering the amount of school shootings, and such that i hear from the US, the i am inclined to believe that there must be something they are doing wrong.

It very well might be depending on the scar.
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Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Well my belief is not to eradicate guns, but have very strict regulations for them, but if i were to choose in a more extreme, then it would be for it to be limited to only licensed professionals.


And who those "licensed professionals" be? The Army?


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Things are not simply "morals" but also ideals. Saying that morals have to be applicable equally to everyone follows a certain ideal, and it is not one i need to agree with, even if you find it to be hypocrisy.


Having a double standard is the very definition of the word hypocrisy. It is not my opinion of it. If you have a double standard, be it morals or ideals, you are a hypocrite.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
How would you fight for your rights in beforehand?


You give the government as little power over you as possible, don't give in to your rights. When ever your government is planning to pass a law that limits your rights, you protest, you vote for politicians that are against that, so on and so fort.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
It is after they become oppressive that you lose your rights after all, and neither is it a sudden change, as things don't tend to be that simple.


The change is the fault of the people duo to their ignorance and/or passiveness.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Self defense at a high risk and/or maybe cost.


The risk and cost of not relying on guns as self defense could be that you are raped, hurt or killed.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Or a man/woman gets charmed by its power and does something unforgivable.


This is pretty vague, but yes, we are not perfect. We will make mistakes and accidents will happen. And even you said "Of course the acts of few should not change the rights of many"


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Of course the acts of few should not change the rights of many, but considering the amount of school shootings, and such that i hear from the US, the i am inclined to believe that there must be something they are doing wrong.


Yes, maybe it is the mental health of some students that is wrong there and not the gun laws? Maybe the school culture of US, where there are lots of school shootings, is doing something wrong?

Maybe the issue of bullying should be addressed better, maybe the funding of mental health programs should be increased or maybe the mental health of students in general should be a bigger issue in US than it is now?


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
It very well might be depending on the scar.


What? I don't understand this, what is depending on the scar?
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Power-Senpai This is very custom.
Coconutt wrote...
Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Well my belief is not to eradicate guns, but have very strict regulations for them, but if i were to choose in a more extreme, then it would be for it to be limited to only licensed professionals.


And who those "licensed professionals" be? The Army?


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Things are not simply "morals" but also ideals. Saying that morals have to be applicable equally to everyone follows a certain ideal, and it is not one i need to agree with, even if you find it to be hypocrisy.


Having a double standard is the very definition of the word hypocrisy. It is not my opinion of it. If you have a double standard, be it morals or ideals, you are a hypocrite.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
How would you fight for your rights in beforehand?


You give the government as little power over you as possible, don't give in to your rights. When ever your government is planning to pass a law that limits your rights, you protest, you vote for politicians that are against that, so on and so fort.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
It is after they become oppressive that you lose your rights after all, and neither is it a sudden change, as things don't tend to be that simple.


The change is the fault of the people duo to their ignorance and/or passiveness.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Self defense at a high risk and/or maybe cost.


The risk and cost of not relying on guns as self defense could be that you are raped, hurt or killed.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Or a man/woman gets charmed by its power and does something unforgivable.


This is pretty vague, but yes, we are not perfect. We will make mistakes and accidents will happen. And even you said "Of course the acts of few should not change the rights of many"


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Of course the acts of few should not change the rights of many, but considering the amount of school shootings, and such that i hear from the US, the i am inclined to believe that there must be something they are doing wrong.


Yes, maybe it is the mental health of some students that is wrong there and not the gun laws? Maybe the school culture of US, where there are lots of school shootings, is doing something wrong?

Maybe the issue of bullying should be addressed better, maybe the funding of mental health programs should be increased or maybe the mental health of students in general should be a bigger issue in US than it is now?


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
It very well might be depending on the scar.


What? I don't understand this, what is depending on the scar?


Hunters, police, army, etc

If you want to say that, then hypocrisy is not always wrong.

And how in earth does that involve you having guns for it? People freak out because of something and suddenly we have a lot of dead policemen?

That is hardly true. You expect everyone in olden times to understand politics, and be completely open to an entirely different way of doing things? Seems awfully idealistic to me.

So we should let kids get guns too? They might get raped after all, and the kid and the rapist can have a little western showdown.

I've already said something about this.

At-least something needs to be done there, and i believe we can all agree on that.


Let me try to make this entire discussion between the two of us simpler. You believe that guns should be available to the people with rules following it. I believe that guns should be available to civilians, but that for a person to have a gun, they have to be mentally stable, has to be made sure to keep the gun in a safe area away from kids, and that no malicious intent with the gun is found within the user. Also it should be kept away from depressed people, and especially children. Do we agree on this?
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Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Coconutt wrote...
And who those "licensed professionals" be? The Army?


Hunters, police, army, etc


And who are gonna call when the police comes to your door and attacks you? How are you gonna defend yourself?


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
If you want to say that, then hypocrisy is not always wrong.


It has nothing to do with what i want to say, that is what the word means and hypocrisy is wrong.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
And how in earth does that involve you having guns for it?


In the most extreme scenarios the people might have to use guns to fight against the government, but that is not possible if you willingly give them up.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
People freak out because of something and suddenly we have a lot of dead policemen?


That is possibly one hypothetical outcome.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Coconutt wrote...
The change is the fault of the people duo to their ignorance and/or passiveness.


That is hardly true.


It is true actually.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
You expect everyone in olden times to understand politics, and be completely open to an entirely different way of doing things? Seems awfully idealistic to me.


Most of the "olden timers" are dead so i don't really expect anything from them. History is history, i can't change it.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
So we should let kids get guns too? They might get raped after all, and the kid and the rapist can have a little western showdown.


I have never said that kids should get guns too. Even though i have said everybody should have the right to bear arms, what i mean is that everybody old enough, who passes background checks, passes the regulations, passes the training, so on and so fort, is eligible to have a gun.

Kids are the responsibility of their parents, and the parents are the ones who should make sure their kids aren't raped.

The people who are old enough but not eligible to have a gun have to protect them selves through other means, like pepper spray, taser, so on and so fort.


Lelouch vi Lamperouge wrote...
Let me try to make this entire discussion between the two of us simpler. You believe that guns should be available to the people with rules following it. I believe that guns should be available to civilians, but that for a person to have a gun, they have to be mentally stable, has to be made sure to keep the gun in a safe area away from kids, and that no malicious intent with the gun is found within the user. Also it should be kept away from depressed people, and especially children. Do we agree on this?


Yes.

Don't really understand how are you going to make it so that depressed people don't get or use guns.
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Pretty much everything, if used properly, can be considered a weapon.
Ever heard of fighting bare handed? A deadly fist fight in the end has no difference with one of the two shooting the other, dead is dead, violence is violence.

Plus I have Katanas, machetes and knives and I plan on keeping those.
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KurosawaAnon wrote...
Pretty much everything, if used properly, can be considered a weapon.
Ever heard of fighting bare handed? A deadly fist fight in the end has no difference with one of the two shooting the other, dead is dead, violence is violence.


^this is correct. In order to get rid of weapons you would have to get rid of the human race or somehow completely change people's mindset. If Macgyver has taught people anything it is that you can make weapons out of complete random crap.
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blinkgirl211 wrote...
KurosawaAnon wrote...
Pretty much everything, if used properly, can be considered a weapon.
Ever heard of fighting bare handed? A deadly fist fight in the end has no difference with one of the two shooting the other, dead is dead, violence is violence.


^this is correct. In order to get rid of weapons you would have to get rid of the human race or somehow completely change people's mindset. If Macgyver has taught people anything it is that you can make weapons out of complete random crap.


Forum Image: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/dd/ddc0885d6138a91499876a0e98db3e0b4c97adee453e645343ab809beeb8f999.jpg
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War doesn't stop just because you take weapons away, like banning Guns or knives. History has proven that, we will kill each other through our beliefs, cause and hate. May it be Guns and rockets or stick and stones, war never changes.
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Weapons include:
  • Hands

  • Feet

  • Teeth

  • Fingernails

  • Conveniently shaped rocks

  • Inconveniently shaped rocks

  • Cars

  • Surgical scalpels

  • Reference books/textbooks

  • You get the point.

If we ban weapons, we ban basically everything. And a ban that broad just gets ignored, and what's more, is impossible to enforce. War is not going to stop. People will always fight for whatever they believe in, whether it's a valid reason or not. Truly banning weapons would grind the world to a screeching halt, then we all starve to death as our hunting and farming tools are taken away because they are "weapons." So while an end to war would be awesome, it's not going to come by taking away weapons.
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Like the common saying goes 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' well the same goes for weapons. However lets say hypothetically that there are no (external) weapons and none can ever be created, it will then result in offense using the body as an (internal) weapon and it will be an even more painful death for some, as they have their limbs snapped by an enemy rather than getting shot or blown to bits.
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The first weapons were primitive spears and bows and arrows or just rocks you pick off the ground even.

They weren't made just to fight war and kill other humans. They were meant to kill anything. For food or for protection.

And sometimes you need protection.


Human beings will NEVER stop trying to kill each other. Granted, if all weapons disappeared overnight, some crime might go down. As a criminal may not want to break into a home full of people with just his fists.


The poll becomes a problem when you consider that EVERYTHING can also be used as a weapon.

The court of law can determine anything as a weapon if it is used as one. And if all guns and knifes and swords disappeared? Well, you can expect a lot more hit and runs, baseball bat attacks, forceful drug injections, gassing people, etc.

And you can't take away those things because they have practical uses that'd cause more death if you took them away suddenly.
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Le_Thorne wrote...
Weapons include:
  • Hands

  • Feet

  • Teeth

  • Fingernails

  • Conveniently shaped rocks

  • Inconveniently shaped rocks

  • Cars

  • Surgical scalpels

  • Reference books/textbooks

  • You get the point.

If we ban weapons, we ban basically everything. And a ban that broad just gets ignored, and what's more, is impossible to enforce. War is not going to stop. People will always fight for whatever they believe in, whether it's a valid reason or not. Truly banning weapons would grind the world to a screeching halt, then we all starve to death as our hunting and farming tools are taken away because they are "weapons." So while an end to war would be awesome, it's not going to come by taking away weapons.


+1 to your thoughts - anything can be turned into a weapon if used properly though. normal things such as a textbook usually isn't a weapon unless someone made some sort of creative way by attaching it to a stick or something to make both the stick and the book more effective as a weapon.
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I don't think that weapons are a bad thing, but I think there should be stricter laws around getting guns, in America I feel that it is too easy for somebody to get a gun, and especially a weapon like a carbine, which I feel people have no use for, I personally only approve for hunting rifles for hunting, shotguns for the same reason, and military graded weaponry should stay in the army, and avoid civilian hands at all cost.

"But what if my neighbor invades my home and tries to steal everything and threaten my Family" <--- This I have heard so many times I get sick of it, if you feel that way where you live, I think it is better to just move, or talk to the police about the matter.
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While anything can be used as a weapon, the fact is that Firearms are more destructive, effective, stronger, dangerous and easier to misuse than any other.

Here for example Firearms are illegal, nobody posses a security problem without them and criminals have a really hard travel to get a few, old, non-powerful pistols. Most of the robbery and stuff is done with just fists, or at most with a knife. All the violence episodes here are just done by fists, a few kicks and ends on that, without scaling more (well, sometimes a few non-letal cuts). Not domestically accidents, neither.

Firearms aren't needed for civilians in countries where security is at least decent, bringing them just make that the criminals will brought them, too, and more powerful ones than yours, usually. I may make an exception for countries with current civil wars, or drastic violence, like it is now on Colombia, Syria or Ukraine.

Police with weapons is other stuff. I kind of agree with that, but I'm ok neither way. A police with a pistol and special forces with advanced weapons can make better their job, but in exchange the citizenship dislike them more and misuses happens, sometimes. I'm 25/75 with standard police with pistols (or accordantly power to handle criminal), more against, while I'm about 90/10 with specials forces with advance weapons.
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HOTD_Cum_Back wrote...
I don't think that weapons are a bad thing, but I think there should be stricter laws around getting guns, in America I feel that it is too easy for somebody to get a gun, and especially a weapon like a carbine, which I feel people have no use for, I personally only approve for hunting rifles for hunting, shotguns for the same reason, and military graded weaponry should stay in the army, and avoid civilian hands at all cost.

"But what if my neighbor invades my home and tries to steal everything and threaten my Family" <--- This I have heard so many times I get sick of it, if you feel that way where you live, I think it is better to just move, or talk to the police about the matter.


Dude do you even know what a carbine is? It's simply a rifle with a shorter barrel.

Also based on your claim, anyone can just pack up their home and leave. That's not possible unless you're a multimillionaire that has lots of money to spare.

Talking to the police doesn't help because the police isn't your personal protection service. Their responsibility is to catch criminals and deter crime, but they are not legally obliged to protect anyone at all times.

Also military grade weaponry is a bs term because it means precisely nothing. The M1903 Springfield was the US military's weapon of choice during WWI, but many people use it today as a hunting rifle or display piece. The M1 Garand was the military's weapon of choice during WWII, but it's still more powerful and accurate than most AR-15s sold today. Current weapon ban legislation mostly targets cosmetic features of many weapons such as the color black, pistol grips, adjustable stocks, and forward grips. The current US military uses M16/M4A1s which LOOK like AR-15s but have 3 round burst or full auto function that the ar-15 doesn't have.
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Realistically deadly weapon bans do not work for the whole attempt at having people not be killed by other people. Deadly weapons are a lousy form of defense and create a marked increase in a violent death if you own them for protection. However allowing weapons do not help reduce crime rates and actually causes more accidents and successful suicide attempts.

Given that having weapons and not having weapons stops nothing. I say have weapons after a short waiting period with background check, both criminal, mental and household. As well as a completed training to insure safe use, maintenance and safekeeping. I also believe that private sales should require the same background check with training as well as a notary to inspect the documents.

I would actually like to see everyone trained in gun safety if mentally stable and not criminal. Including everyone, not just gun owners. I think this meets the sentiment of the second amendment nicely and might create less unwarranted fear of weapons as well as a healthy respect of them.
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Rin_Penelope wrote...
weapons is the one thing keeping the war to exist in this world, many weapon manufacturer dig up ridiculous amount of money from every war that wage around the world, do you think weapon is worthy enough to exist?


Are you an idiot?

Ever heard of personal responsibility? We're not living in a world where items can control us. People commit acts of violence. So does every other living creature. The idea/ the mere notion that the weapon is the fault for war is retarded.
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Holoofyoistu The Messenger
i have two shot guns, 1 rifle, a pistol, and a lot of knives. Wepons and hunting are a big part of my family tradition, and i love them. Im big on wepons, but i also dotn see why people are allowed to own automatic wepons. weird
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Holoofyoistu wrote...
i have two shot guns, 1 rifle, a pistol, and a lot of knives. Wepons and hunting are a big part of my family tradition, and i love them. Im big on wepons, but i also dotn see why people are allowed to own automatic wepons. weird


In case one day the president or any other government official tries to create a dictatorship and tries to kill all dissent. And yes it has happened in other countries.
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chille the elderitch one
As long as lifeforms exist, they will wage war and the way animals waged war was to use mutations they allowed them to survive. Humans and a handful of other animals use tools we created, and all those tools do is make the fallout of war worse.
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