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Tsurayu wrote...
One step a time, but we have to exercise caution, and I'm afraid too many people in the current young generation are going to fail to remember that.I agree as a whole. I believe that we can make repairs, but the current mindset of many Americans only fuels the Israeli mistrust.
After this speech, I expect (dare I say it?) change. It will be slow change, like many people said, but with an open-minded president, I expect that we will be able to find a common ground.
As a side note, I like how we have a literate president. Also, I like how Obama doesn't shirk the negatives of America AND the Muslim world.
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FreeNadja wrote...
You are very pessimistic. True that the Middle East full of problems, and authoritarian regimes, which was and still backed by the West, but that does not mean that we stay and wait for an unknown (by the U.S. of course). In addition, it seems you're a pro-Israel. Rabidly.Not sure if this is just more of your insipid, usual trolling, but this one time I'll indulge you:
In a way I'm pro-Israel, for the reasons outlined above. Not sure if you're just trolling again with the "rabidly", because I'm not. I'm not saying all Arabs should be put up against the wall. I'm not saying the Palestinians have no right to their own state. They have a right to one, and in my eyes they can have it as soon as they a) acknowledge Israel's right to exist b) ensure that this new state won't just be the same thing as the current Palestinian territories: A cauldron wrought with internal, violent strife, failing governmental control, banditism, etc.
Y'see - In an ideal world, I'd call in a fleet of B-52s and have them pour raw cement all over the place 'till the entire middle east was sealed under a five thousand miles thick concrete layer, forever. Fuck either side, just be quiet already you guys!
Since this is not an ideal world, however, we must work with what we got. And what we got is one remotely democratic nation in the area that we can build upon, that we should preserve as a rock of stability. Once the nations (or the organizations acting in place of these nation's government, such as Hamas) around it unequivocally acknowledge its right to exist (which they currently do not), we can get to talking eye-to-eye.
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OH SHIT, ITS THE NHK MAN.
FREENADIA IS BEING CONTROLLED BY THE NHK.
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WHY AREN'T YOUR POSTS BIG AND BLUE!?
FREENADIA IS BEING CONTROLLED BY THE NHK.
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WHY AREN'T YOUR POSTS BIG AND BLUE!?
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illumi wrote...
OH SHIT, ITS THE NHK MAN.FREENADIA IS BEING CONTROLLED BY THE NHK.
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WHY AREN'T YOUR POSTS BIG AND BLUE!?
Take your sarcasm out of the thread. Not appreciated.
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gibbous wrote...
illumi wrote...
OH SHIT, ITS THE NHK MAN.FREENADIA IS BEING CONTROLLED BY THE NHK.
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WHY AREN'T YOUR POSTS BIG AND BLUE!?
Take your sarcasm out of the thread. Not appreciated.
I c wat u did thar.
But it wasn't sarcasm. It was a simple question in caps.
No sarcasm intended.
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Tsurayu wrote...
Anyway on a tangent, it does seem like quite a few people are very pro-Israeli on this debate. I mean I would expect that out of religious people, but to me it seems like even more than that.When did religion come into play here? Or is it after all these religion threads, you found it easy to tag it as a scape-goat?
I'm pretty sure people who actually do their homework in history without the influence of media are the ones who side with Israel. If you read through this thread you might find something that might prove this point.
Catcher wrote...
As a side note, I like how we have a literate president.O rly?
PersonDude wrote...
Spoiler:
gibbous wrote...
FreeNadja wrote...
You are very pessimistic. True that the Middle East full of problems, and authoritarian regimes, which was and still backed by the West, but that does not mean that we stay and wait for an unknown (by the U.S. of course). In addition, it seems you're a pro-Israel. Rabidly.Not sure if this is just more of your insipid, usual trolling, but this one time I'll indulge you:
In a way I'm pro-Israel, for the reasons outlined above. Not sure if you're just trolling again with the "rabidly", because I'm not. I'm not saying all Arabs should be put up against the wall. I'm not saying the Palestinians have no right to their own state. They have a right to one, and in my eyes they can have it as soon as they a) acknowledge Israel's right to exist b) ensure that this new state won't just be the same thing as the current Palestinian territories: A cauldron wrought with internal, violent strife, failing governmental control, banditism, etc.
Y'see - In an ideal world, I'd call in a fleet of B-52s and have them pour raw cement all over the place 'till the entire middle east was sealed under a five thousand miles thick concrete layer, forever. Fuck either side, just be quiet already you guys!
Since this is not an ideal world, however, we must work with what we got. And what we got is one remotely democratic nation in the area that we can build upon, that we should preserve as a rock of stability. Once the nations (or the organizations acting in place of these nation's government, such as Hamas) around it unequivocally acknowledge its right to exist (which they currently do not), we can get to talking eye-to-eye.
I feel like crying... Common sense rather than reliance on emotion. I thought I would never hear the voice of reason again...
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PersonDude wrote...
When did religion come into play here? Or is after all these religion threads, you found it easy to tag it as a scape-goat?I'm not saying it did. I do realize now I was wrong to say religious because that inaccurately represents everyone who hold religious beliefs. What I meant to say was that a lot of deeply held Christians and Christ-based faith side with Israel because it is the Holy Land, regardless of what the media has to say regarding the situation.
If someone wants to side with Israel on that sole basis alone that I have no right to say anything to the contrary, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
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Tsurayu wrote...
I'm not saying it did. I do realize now I was wrong to say religious because that inaccurately represents everyone who hold religious beliefs. What I meant to say was that a lot of deeply held Christians and Christ-based faith side with Israel because it is the Holy Land, regardless of what the media has to say regarding the situation. If someone wants to side with Israel on that sole basis alone that I have no right to say anything to the contrary, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
I wouldn't agree with them either if that was their sole reason.
It's just you seemed to be neglecting the hard facts that Israel was shit on first even while they had the rights to settle in those lands while other's say they don't. It just didn't seem right to say that religion is the only reason that people side with Israel while these facts are staring everyone right in the face. How is it not their land? There's a fucking agreement that says otherwise. They even took that land over during 1967. Doesn't military take over count anymore or are we the only one's who can do that?
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illumi wrote...
This is totally off-topic, but damn PD you always have the cutest avatars.Lol thx. XD Fuuko owns as well. :P
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Raven X Petrelli wrote...
A member of Arabic league,Palestine,took a part of Israel city .Spoiler:
PersonDude wrote...
Another reason why Israelis invaded Palastine (which many people seem to forget) is because Hamas firing missles on Israel injuring and killing innocent civilians.Spoiler:
jmason wrote...
Bush alienated the whole Muslim race, and acting like Gorbachev afterwards didn't help much either.Spoiler:
Waar wrote...
HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?I find you usually serious in these matters. I am anxious to hear your opinion.
illumi wrote...
WHY AREN'T YOUR POSTS BIG AND BLUE!?Spoiler:
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FreeNadia wrote...
PersonDude wrote...
Another reason why Israelis invaded Palastine (which many people seem to forget) is because Hamas firing missles on Israel injuring and killing innocent civilians.Launch a terrorist organization (Hamas) rockets at Israeli cities and wounding some Israeli lightly injured does not give the right of Israel to kill thousands of civilians in the Gaza Strip, the pretext of self-defense.
I like how you make it seem as if it was a small deal. I also like how you skipped over the fact that the missiles killed people and put "lightly injured". How about lets try, the missiles killed innocent civilians. Just firing a missile on a country is a good reason for war even if it doesn't kill anyone. But they were firing 100s.
I don't even know why you're sticking up for the Palestinians if you're going to make Israel look like such assholes. They had a very fucking good reason to retaliate. No, that does not mean I support the deaths of thousands of civilians, but that's a part of war. NO COUNTRY that has EVER been in wars is innocent of this crime. So why choose to grow a conscience only when it comes to Israel?
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What do I expect? Nothing I mean what am I supposed to expect world peace? It’s a speech is it going to change people’s views or feelings maybe some but most no. For example will it change Americans minds hell no, and was it because it was bad no, because no one saw it. There are few people who watch the president’s speeches. I watched it, but when I asked anyone else on my floor they said Obama’s in Cairo? Sure it was a good speech, but it’s the actions not the words that will decide where Obama goes from here.
Israel and Palestine
Some quotes
Israel and Palestine
Spoiler:
Some quotes
Spoiler:
