Why Curing Cancer is Impossible

Except circles don't exist in nature. Any shape that iis roughly circlular is actually oval due to gravitational forces and velocity. Perfection is a matter of perspective. Technically cancel cells are immortal since they do not destroy themselves.That would be the under your definition perfection. What is perfect for you is not for me. Mathematics is not perfect either, just look at quantum mechanics. That alone proves imperfection.

How can you even argue this is the face of evolution. A perfect system which is build solely on imperfection to build perfection.

The only thing that posses me off personally more than anything else is pessimistic people who believe things are impossible. But its thanks to you types of people telling the actual intellectual people they can't do things that lead to all the discoveries we have today.

They told einstien he was crazy, they told the wright brothers flight was impossible. They told Armstrong it was impossible to go to the moon. Yet we did it so why keep arguing.

What is nature anyway? If a point mass is influenced by the right force it can get a perfect circular path. Bells can have the form of a sphere (this is under influence of surface pressure ich makes them have the smallest surface possible hence a sphere), well not perfect but if we could get this close to anything you might as well call it perfect. Many things in nature follow the pattern of the fibbonaci row (http://www.popmath.org.uk/rpamaths/rpampages/sunflower.html).
waves are perfect sinusoidal functions. We have heating machines that can turn work into heat with an efficienty of 100%. What about a perfect algorithm.

And actually the human intellect is also nature so the fact that we have the concept of a perfect circle means that it exists in nature. If the statement of imperfect beings can never reach any perfection was true then we would be able to come up with a circle.





Quantum mechanics doesnt prove mathematics wrong where did you get that idea. Its not because they use mathematics as a model to physics that mathematics is imperfect because physics is imperfect. Mathematics is a perfect model that humans created that it what makes it so amazing. Mathematics is elegant, it fits and it's extremely usefull for describing things.



Wow who are you adressing buddy, I never said such things.

I'm incline to disagree with you on some of those points.

1. For many people, the technologies thought up by Robert Heinlein (Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, etc) where nothing but fiction. Yet in 50 years, some of the devices mentioned are now, indeed, science fact... Couldn't help that one...

2. Regardless of size, one would not have to expand over the entire star to consider it "colonized". The same can be said for the Americas... or the Falklands (bad joke). Any how, we do not currently have the technology to accomplish such a feat, but there is no telling when or if they will be developed, and how they will be used.

3.As to Jupiter, it is "theoretically possible to set up orbiting stations to rest either above or within the the planet. As stated above, we simply haven't developed the technology to do so. And there is no telling the "when", "if", and "how".

Long story short. To claim something is impossible is to both limit yourself and your species. Humanity has (at least in our own minds) proven itself wrong on many occasions. As stated above, we were told we could never fly, yet we did. We were told that the moon was only accessible by the gods themselves, and yet we have stood on it.

Back on the main subject: Isn't it possible (albeit theoretically) to reprogram cells so they experience regulated cell death (apoptosis) should a certain thresh hold of acceptable mutation? But then again, we would have to worry if the "reprogrammed" aspect were to mutate... Any thoughts?

My turn to take a crack at this.

I'd like to say that, while the original poster does make a good point, I am still inclined to disagree. You stated that humans are imperfect, which is true, however, there is nothing saying that humans are similar to one another. That's why we are called 'homosapiens,' because our D.N.A at some level does share similarities with other homosapiens, so there is a chance that, if we can isolate what that gene is, utilize it to combat cancer.

Also, I find your defense of cancer treatments to be a bit redundant. It's like you're saying that you don't eat pork, but you love to eat bacon. Like mentioned earlier, there are treatments that send cancer into remission, which is kinda like sending it into stasis, correct? What if there came a day where a treatment came into existence that could permanently stall the pre-existing cancer cells and even stop the production of new ones? That would be considered a cure, pending on what type of cancer it is.

To be frank, it's not impossible for there to be a cure. After all, day in and out, many 'impossibilities' are found to be possible, we just need to find the right way to do it. (save for immortality. I'd rather prefer if that was one impossibility that never comes into fruition.)

7 years of study in quantum theory, particle theory and astrophysics gives me that idea. An entire section of mathematics about probability. In quantum states 1 + 1 can equal 0 or 10 billion or any number for that matter even negative. Because particles can simple disappear from existence and reappear without explaination. Simply observing an experiment can change all the parameters of the experiment.

Quantum theory has also proven negative time travel. Which thought to be impossible. Quantum scrapped our understanding of universal expansion for new theories. Literally on a quantum le el, the impossible is more common than what we deem possible.

We know literally nothing compared to what's out there and often are wring and need to revise or start new. Our perfect mathematics means nothing.

What im saying is that quantum physics uses mathematics as a model to describe itself, setting its own rules. Mathematics as it stands on its own has nothing to do with quantum theory and is perfect in itself. I dont care if 1+1 can be 0 in quantum theory. In mathematics if 1+1 = 2 this is always true.

Except that quantum physics was invented to explain the mathematical fallacy that is present in all standard math. Like simple statement of 1+1=2 is only valid when you discuss independent factors without relation. That doesn't happen in nature or in most human activity. It doesn't explain quantum activity as its intended purpose. Which is that quantum explains everything. What you are talking about is a gross simplification of a imperfect and complex system. Like saying 1 dollar plus 1 dollar is two dollars without taking into consideration economic inflation, taxation, effort and time committed to getting that dollar.

But you want to know the real truth of your logic. Math was created by humans, we invented the numbers and equations. We are as you say imperfect, imperfect beings can't create something perfect. Therefor math must by default be imperfect since that if your own logic. Your own logic defeats you here.

What????? you are reversing it, I said humans can make perfect things and then I gave the example of math as something perfect humans made. "imperfect beings can't create something perfect" I never made that statement and you umberhave nothing to back it off.

When you talk about quantum mechanics you talk about Physics, Physics use maths to try and describe things accuratly. Offcourse this isnt 100% right but that doesnt make maths wrong. Your example with money makes no sense. when I say 1+1=2 I use the definition of natural numbers, this 1 doesnt say anything about currency it's about the behavior of rational numbers.

Wait would there not be some flaw or imperfection within mathmatical theory that would make it flawed ? After all as the old saying goes nothing is perfect. Plus couldn't one say that humans did not invent math if any intellgent specias can come top the exact same conclusions and formulas albiet maybe diffrent ? I mean it does sound arragont stating that humans created it ? Ego boasting much.....

So what is this flaw? You just asume it on an old saying? without even having found any flaws? I will tell you why, there are none

Well you can say humans invented the wheel even if any intelligent species also came up with it. If it didn't exist yet in our world and it does now than we invented it. I find it a great insult to the great minds of humanity that you minimize their hard work.

In order to make a foolproof cure that would work on a cancer, one would have to take into account all of the subinfinite possible mutations that could occur to cause said cancer. Homo sapiens sapiens are (as you know) not perfect. Furthermore, it is impossible for homo sapiens sapiens to develop a working cure for a cancer.



Perfection may not exist per se, but perfection is indeed required to "perfect" a cure. As I said to the person before you: In order to make a foolproof cure that would work on a cancer, one would have to take into account all of the subinfinite possible mutations that could occur to cause said cancer. Homo sapiens sapiens are (as you know) not perfect. Furthermore, it is impossible for homo sapiens sapiens to develop a working cure for a cancer.



Except for the fact that humans haven't ever had perfect ideas, nor has mathematics been perfected. Perfection indicates that something has no flaws. Again, I present to you the undeniable fact that imperfection can not beget perfection.





The closest humans can get to perfect is not perfect. It is merely the closest homo sapiens sapiens can get to perfection. That doesn't cut it for cancer cures.





IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE WOULD HAVE TO BE COGNISANT OF THE SUNDERING MUTATIONS THAT OCCUR, SO AS TO BE ABLE TO PREPARE A WORKING SPECTRUM FOR THE CELLS TO RECOGNISE AS BAD.

Face it, human beings cannot create a cure for something that involves near limitless possibilities. It isn't feasible in the slightest. What would end up happening, is that it would end up being faulty and do much more harm than good.



You fail to recognise that it is not one mutation in a gene that we are talking about, here. Even if (and that's a big IF) we were able to locate the exact gene responsible for a mere ONE strain of cancer, what would that do us? There would still be a subinfinite amount of mutations left in other genes, and if you want to suggest we spend 85,694 3/4s more years looking for another lone lone gene, then you return to the original point I made. Every cell can be incorrectly duplicated, ergo every cell can possess an almost limitless amount of negative mutations. So, again, you are asking us to find ALL of the possible mutations in ALL of the body's cells, which would mean perfecting a cure, which (as you know) is not possible for homo sapiens sapiens.



We are not looking down upon the great thinkers and great mathematicians of the world. We are merely pointing out that, as humans, even they were not perfect. If you want an example, how about the full form of "pi." Due to the fact that pi goes on forever, human beings cannot write it. Their solution was to use the Greek letter "Ï€" to represent the number. That is not perfection in the slightest. Calling the number "Ï€" is no more precise than calling 10100 (ten duotrigintillion) "googol." Do you know how the term "googol" was coined? It was created when the mathematician Edward Kasner asked his NINE YEAR OLD NEPHEW what 10100 should be called. THAT IS NOT PERFECTION IN THE SLIGHTEST. If human beings were truly perfect, they would be able to write out a limitless number like "pi." On the same token, if human beings were truly perfect, they would be able to account for the subinfinite number of possible mutations that could occur in every possible cell in the body.

Tell me what is imperfect about the idea of a sphere or a cirlce?





This is because of imperfections on a molecular scale. If we can get out cancer threatment as close to perfect as a bubble can be to a perfect sphere we probably wouldnt even lose 1 person each year to cancer.



Limitless numbers are supposed to be limitless, thats what makes them beautifull. It takes an infinite amount of time to write them down. Being able to write a limitless number is paradoxal and has nothing to do with perfection.

Let me illustrate this with an example: What if a perfect almighty being made a rock he couldnt lift. Well would he be not almighty? If he could lift it then he culdnt make the rock so he is not perfect and almighty. If he couldnt lift it then he cant lift any rock wich makes him again not perfect and not almighty.

You can see this is a paradox wich has nothing to do with perfection and therefor is a flawed argument.

the fun thing is,if I π I mean the number corresponding the definition so in fact I have written an infinite number in a finit way. You would just need an infinite amount of time to write it in numbers. Thats why for calculations we make a good aproximation. But in mathematics as a whole we do not and we keep the perfect π. The briliance of mathematics is being able to overcome such practical problems in a model out minds created.

As for "googol", honestly nobody cares about the name it's about the definitions and what you can do with them names are just a quick way to be able to talk about ideas.

Just wanna say an incomprehensible being would be beyond any form of sentient life's comprehension. Also not everything known about math has been discovered by humans so wither numbers are truly infinite is sorta up in the air. After all a more advance sentient specie's could have found a specific in to numbers if they existed near or close to the beginning of the universe. Also paradox's are flawed when a limited being is trying to work around the concept of a Divine like being etc.

On topic= I believe that cancer does have a cure but for the most part it wont be fond because of human greed and the fact that there could be to many factors that could make it all but impossible. But who knows,it's not like I know enough about the subject to give the forum the info to come to a general conclusion.

There is always a cure for something It's just this generation has not found a way yet. Either we find it or it will perish on its own.

Please elaborate how the Hell Cancer will even remotely perish on it's own ? Last time I checked it isn't like some Bacteria . The only way it would or could possibly be wiped out would be to destroy humans or rather sentient life Argo erasing cancer eternally.

Like I previously stated, there are always a cure for diseases even viral ones. Might not seem like it but its damn near possible like polio and warts. Not bacterial diseases and their curable so please elaborate to me wtf are you talking about? O and take your time! I'm a patient man.

How does cancer get wiped out on it's own, very simple. It's called being healthy. Regulating your hormone levels, eating a balanced amount of vitamines, low carbs, high calories, lots of exercise, natural foods, sleeping regularily, keeping your mind sharp with puzzles (yes this is relevent). This list can go on.

Cancer is a simple problem, it may seem like sub-infinite amounts of it only because that is catagorizing it based on the location in which it is found but cancer in all cells regardless of location in the body have the exact same problem. They replicate, then fail to destroy themselves after thier life time. This is faulty DNA, but DNA can change based on the above factors that I have described.

What is the most common for people who have cancer? They drink too much, they smoke too much, they eat unhealthy foods, they don't eat balanced meals, they don't exercise enough. It's not a difficult concept to learn that a healthy body will naturally combat cancer cells.

Why didn't you read THE FIRST DANG POST of this topic. I'm tired of explaining to people what is already explained in my opening post. READ THE WHOLE DANG TOPIC, YOU TOIF!

You've put up a agreement and I'm being a con to it so what's the deal?

You've said that a number of times, but you still haven't understood that your first post makes about as much sense as putting a cinder block in the ground and expecting a concrete tree to grow.

You are neither a doctor, nor a biologist, nor a chemist. And You haven't had cancer, nor been directly involved with family or close friends that have. Because if you were, then you'd realize how stupid your post is. Anybody who dedicates their time to research into the human body, doesn't just sit there and go "oh, it's impossible cause some toif on the fakku forums said it is."

Infact, nobody in any profession they are dedicated to ever does that. No architect sits at his/her computer saying "it's impossible to build a house." If they have an ounce of creativity they discouver ways to do things that aren't conventional and beyond! new things emerge.

That's how we discouvered to split the atom, how to create aircraft, how to get to the moon, how to land on mars, how to sail on the ocean, how to cook food, how to create fire even. All of these were once thought to be impossible but your dense brain can't seem to comprehend that.

Just because you claim it is, without linking a single shred of evidence to counter that fact proves it.


http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/cancerlibrary/what-is-cancer

It's all written right there in this link about cancer. There's more than a 100 kinds of cancer, all of which are named on where they start and how they develope. Look at the origin of cancer, it isn't divided into sub catagories for each one, it just says one thing. They replicate, and fail to die. That's it, it's not some crazy mutation that changes a cell into a piece of wood, it's literally one piece of dna. All cancer is linked to the faulty use of one piece of dna.

What is there to misunderstand here? We know exactly what causes it, and if we know exactly what causes it, we know how to treat it.