Don't wanna be a party pooper, but I'm pretty sure this debate was talked to death here at FAKKU! when Chuu! or Aion Crux was here. Pretty much the same deal with Kamille vs. Shinn, with the same type of youtube videos showing Newtypes beating the tar out of Coordinators, or in this case Amuro winning against Kira.
But for dicussion sake, I'd go with Kira. I think SEED abilities are greater than Newtype abilities that function on and off and aren't terribly or totally reliable. I also get the feeling that Newtypes often meet their enemies beforehand and therefore is able to gain "insight/gutfeeling" because they already met the enemy in person. With SEED, you wouldn't need to place your piloting skills and confidence on a talent that doesn't seem entirely accurate and instead just simply react. And there almost always a time lag with Newtype abilities from what I've seen.
Though i hate to admitted, kira yamato is gonna win against Amuro Ray.
With the ability of strike freedom, there is no way in hell that the first gundam can beat it. even with newtype's sense or ability, is impossible to beat a technology 5 times advance.
As for pilots, Amuro might win in a fair fight. but if kira goes into SEED mode, that's another story. newtype's ability must be given time to develop. coordinator already have they ability enhance by manipulating Gens.
Don't wanna be a party pooper, but I'm pretty sure this debate was talked to death here at FAKKU! when Chuu! or Aion Crux was here.
I wasn't here when Chuu! was around. So there be no fucking way I would know if this was already discussed. But since I made one about Kamille and Shinn, why not give the main main protagonists their own threads for discussion.
Chill man, nothing bad was intended. And note that I continued the discussion after your quote of my post. It was discussed in a "who is the best gundam pilot" thread, and it pretty unraveled like the Kamille vs. Shinn debate, that's all.
Chill man, nothing bad was intended. And note that I continued the discussion after your quote of my post. It was discussed in a "who is the best gundam pilot" thread, and it pretty unraveled like the Kamille vs. Shinn debate, that's all.
I know, I'm just saying is all.
As for the topic, I'm not even sure who is better. All I know is that Kira's a snob for thinking he can do whatever he wants just to stop a battle (i.e. blowing off limbs of every other MS). I think it's very naive of him to think that by doing so everyone is happy, but quite the opposite. He's actually pissing more people off. I mean look what ZAFT decided to do, an entire operation dedicated to annihilating the Freedom and the Archangel.
As for the topic, I'm not even sure who is better. All I know is that Kira's a snob for thinking he can do whatever he wants just to stop a battle (i.e. blowing off limbs of every other MS). I think it's very naive of him to think that by doing so everyone is happy, but quite the opposite. He's actually pissing more people off. I mean look what ZAFT decided to do, an entire operation dedicated to annihilating the Freedom and the Archangel.
Kira might be naive, but he's not a snob at all. He does what he does with the best intentions as he always tries to do what is right, i.e. safe lives and stop further bloodshed, without being a total douchebag like Shinn. Kira doesn't fight because he wants to, but rather he fights because he feels convinced to fight for peace. I've never seen Kira act arrogant, and he isn't infallible either as Shinn wound Kira as well.
Then again, don't tell me that Chairman Dullandil was an innocent bird either - he pretty much orchestrated the entire Destiny series and forcing the populace to take some sort of genetic drug that will stop fighting is even more naive and ludicrous than Kira's plan to go elimiate the physical source.
@Orpheus: As for gundam capabilities, I think we should be taking Nu Gundam rather than the original gundam, because then this discussion is literally pointless. If it was Nu gundam against Strike Freedom, I'd say that the fighters are technologically on even ground, if Strike Freedom has slightly more firepower (# of cannons). I still think that Kira's SEED abilities are better than Amuro's Newtype abilities, and the slight difference in firepower would be utilized by Kira to it's maximum potential. (Unless we're taking each pilot's trademark suit, which can be called into question as well.)
Well even so, his "best" intentions still angered both Orb and ZAFT, you can't deny that. Also, him killing Stella also added fuel to the fire and made Shinn fight accordingly. And before you start saying that it's not his fault for killing her, Kira, incapacitated Mu's Windam and there was an explosion causing her to believe he died. Then after Shinn calmed her down, the mere sight of the Freedom made her go berserk again therefore causing Kira to use his beam sabers on the chest cannons. Therefore killing her and making Shinn hate the Freedom even more. The only reason why Shinn is a douche is because of the story. Again discussed in the other thread, the only reason why Shinn became such a hated, hero/villain character was because the story shifted from Shinn to Kira. I am almost certain that if Destiny stay with Shinn as the absolute main character, he would have developed like Kamille did in Zeta Gundam.
I honestly don't care about Durandal. To me, the pacing of Destiny's story line made him what he is at the end. Since what's his face from Logos is gone, they needed a new villain I suppose.
As for Amuro's and Kira's Gundams being taken into account, I did say Nu Gundam. There's also another way to spell it's name "v Gundam". If I were to use Amuro's RX-78-2 Gundam, I would have paired it with Kira's Strike (no striker packs). I would never try to use Gundams that would give either character a disadvantage in terms of Gundam ter. level.
@Mr.Bushido: Shinn was an unlikable character to begin with, plain and simple, the way he goes off mouthing Cagalli as if he was right and everyone else was wrong, but I digress. And come on, whatever you do in war will make someone hate you - that's just a natural part of war, best intentions or not, but it doesn't make one a snob. I used Dullandil as a contrast in terms of snobbiness, of which I think you unfairly labeled Kira with. Regardless who got Shinn angry or whatnot, everyone agrees that he's a douche.
Shinn was hated because of the story dude. And come on, the point in Shinn's bratish character in the beginning was to develop as the series progressed. Don't give me that absolute certainty and how he was always hated crap that he was always the bad guy. Look at Kamille, he was practically the same at the beginning of Zeta Gundam, but at the end, he matured. Shinn on the other hand did not because of the lack of development once Kira reentered the series competing for the main character role. You say that everyone hates Shinn for what he is, I agree but only to the extent because of decision to throw away his character development. Really, can a character in any series be liked if he/she wasn't developed enough? No they can't if they started off as unlikable. Think about it for a bit and say Shinn did stay the main character through out all 50 eps of Destiny, do you think he would have matured?
I for one prefer Shinn over Kira because I honestly believe he could have matured by the series end but sadly never got it because of the writer's decision. I know that you know Shinn could have been better.
As for Kira, blowing off the limbs of MS and constantly causing chaos on the battle field making the situation worse for the 2 original opposing sides. Why I said he was naive? Because he thinks that his actions would makes things better, but really look at the results. I forget who said it but I am certain that he said that because Kira showed up, he brings chaos.
Nu Gundam is ideal enough to beat the crap out of Strike Freedom. If Amuro had the Nu Gundam HWS or, god forbid, the Hi-Nu Gundam, Kira would be screwed. Amuro possesses amazing piloting skills and is considered a very high-leveled NewType, though not the best. Nu Gundam's Fin Funnels would kick the crap out of those shitty Super DRAGOON Units and could protect against anything the Strike Freedom can throw at him. Even though the Bazooka is useless against Phase Shift, Amuro would beat Kira with the Beam Rifle and Beam Saber, asides from the obvious Fin Funnels. If you want to count Gundam Musou 2, which I won't for certain inaccuracies, the Nu Gundam's power was able to stop the Moonlight Butterfly. Jesus Yamato just can't compare.
I liked Shinn actually; I hate the director who made him sucks, nuff said.
*Ehm* Speaking of battle...this time Amuro and Kira paired huh?
Where to begin...okay let's begin from the unit, Nu Gundam and Strike freedom; if we about to compare both units stats' I'd say there's no big difference between those 2 (I use unit stats from PS2 game G Generation Wars as comparison)
Nu Gundam HP 15840; EN 180; Power 31; Defense 31; Mobility 31; Movement 7
Strike Freedom HP 17340; EN 450; Power 30; Defense 32; Mobility 32; Movement 8
there's no big gap in HP, power, defense, and mobilty, energy is a different story since all UC unit have low EN count, but cost-friendly attack, when non-UC have high EN count but attack costs bigger amount of EN.
If we speaking about Unit's special abilites: both have shield, nu has a strong I-field that deflect all Beam attack, S.Freedom has Variable Phase Shift to deflect non-beam attacks. blahblahblah technical-wise. Let's say both unit is even.
About the pilots (nuh-huh)
Amuro have ridiculously high Newtype ability (esper power that can do shit like deflect beam attack, pressure enemy, blahblah hax power), Kira have SEED and he's Super Coordinator also a thick plot armor. Amuro have lot of experience on battlefield (15 years counted from first gundam to CCA), Kira has about 3 years experience(counted from original SEED till Destiny); both are main character in their respective series and era.
If both of them battled, maybe we'll have endless battle (I admit both of them are hax). Kira goes to SEED mode? Amuro goes and burst his hax newtype power. Let's say it will results in endless fight for both.
BUT, I have yet to see Kira single-handedly stop a huge asteroid drop to earth with his Strike freedom like Amuro did with his Nu Gundam and hax newtype powah in CCA. So Amuro still win for me.
Spoiler:
And then Turn A came, do moonlight butterfly. Everything vanish. TURN A WINS!!! lol :lol:
@Mr.Bushido: Look, whatever I'll say about defending Kira, you'll respond by saying Shinn could've would've should've been a better character when it never happened, and Shinn never matured until the very end when he meets Kira in person and the realization that came with it. I agree that Kira's a naive character, but my point was that he is not a snobbish character when compared to others.
And yes, it was Durandal (sp?) who said that Kira brought chaos onto the field. Either that, or Rey Za Burrel mentioning it to Athrun when Athrun was trying to defend Kira's actions.
Now Rin_Penelope brings up an awesome argument with good solid facts. However, I would like to see Amuro stop thousands of nukes detonating against the SEED colonies, and not once but twice. I think that's comparable to stopping an asteroid.
Kaimax
VN and Eroge Discussion Moderator Posts: 6,537
Oct 25, 2009 at 2:46 pm
g-money wrote...
I would like to see Amuro stop thousands of nukes detonating against the SEED colonies, and not once but twice. I think that's comparable to stopping an asteroid.
I think Amuro can also do that with his Hi-Nu Gundam, since it's only involves multiple targeting enhanced with SEED/NEWTYPE abilities.
But Kira stopping an asteroid as large as Axis while being sucked by Earth's gravitational pull? I think that he can't, since SEED mode only enhanced his reflexes and quick information processing.
