Regarding rules/FAQs and the influx of new users

I didn't think it would come down to this, but it's getting to the point where it's unreasonable and ludicrous.

Look, quite frankly I'm tired of seeing noobs coming into FAKKU and disrupting the community with their zero sense of netiquette. Yeah, we were all noobs at one point, but I'm just flabbergasted at the amount of noobs that waltz in here, and the idiocy and brazeness of some! Even I never started off this bad! I've been on the forums for only 6 months, (with a month and a half of nonactivity) but it's come to a point where almost not a day passes by where a noob posts something in the wrong section or posts something flat out wrong. The most common thing I see is this:

1. Users post in the Request section without:
a) searching the site
b) searching the forums
2. Users post requests in the wrong section also without:
a) searching the site
b) searching the forums
3) Users post MULTIPLE requests in different sections also without:
a) searching the site
b) searching the forums
4. Users posts requests where PREVIOUS requests already exist.
*note - said users will only have few posts before requesting, and have the balls to post a request on their first post.

And to top off the cake, this new icing drove the last nail in the coffin. I received a PM from a person who said I was being a dick. I won't mention which thread, but this is what I wrote in the thread that prompted the PM: "Try the request section. Mods, move this thread please." Word for word verbatim, that's what I wrote, and the user had the gall to say I was being a dick when he/she violated forum common sense and rules?!

This has got to stop, if not now, then within the near future because I'm getting sick of dealing with these kind of users, especially when I'm trying to be polite when first responding. (The urge to write swear words as I type is very strong, I tell you.) I have some suggestions that I feel that FAKKU should implement:

1. We need a new page of Rules and FAQs. The current system has rules and FAQs scattered all over the forum within topics as stickies - this is not sufficient nor efficient enough. I'm suggesting that a section be composed dedicated solely to rules and FAQs where no user upon first glance of the forum can miss it. Either that, or we can put FAKKU Rules and FAQs as a main tab underneath the banner. And maybe as part of user registration, there ought to be a shrink-wrap clickon agreement expressly stating the terms, rules, FAQs, and conduct one must follow to enter FAKKU.

2. The Rules and FAQs not only should cover the current rules to date, but also explain & list Netiquette guidelines because apparently many users lack this. Also, referring to the requests, we need to make it clear that if anyone wants to request something, it must go into the Request section, no questions asked. It's common sense, but I see users breaking this rule almost everyday.

3. This suggestion of mine is somewhat more heavyhanded. I'm suggesting that if anyone wants to request something or look into the User Uploads section, a post count should be implemented. I see laziness in many new members because they don't search and they post requests in the wrong place(s). Post count is to be determined by staff. This is something I'd rather not see at FAKKU do, but the current situation is beginning to call for desperate measures. We can also use a warning/suspension rule (first offense = warning, 2nd offense = account suspension, 3-5 offenses = user ban), but this is too heavyhanded so I'm just throwing it out there to swill.

Opinions, suggestions, comments, criticisms are welcome. This is a real problem and something that's beginning to get out of hand. All and any input would be appreciated.

Who do these noobs think they are? >.>


I've noticed the same problem as you do g-money, what, with these sudden influx of noobs, one-timers, or whatever their reason here. Most of them don't even plan to be active, if not at all.

It is a problem that noobs make misplaced topics. I just don't understand how someone can look at the forum. Think i have a request for something. Look at the forum categories.

Should I put it in :

Random - Maybe

User Uploads Section - Well my request definitely isn't a Upload but it seems the best.

Request Section - Definitely NOT, it's gotta be a trap.

There NO excuse for anyone being that idiotic and having that thought process.

As for number of misplaced topics in say a week, it's between 4 - 9. Sometimes 2 or 3 a day.

lmfao, omg that made me laugh. :lol:

I have one thing to add about the request section and double posting in it, I don't think it needs to be modded? I mean it's basically empty requests, unless users feel like answering them, other than that nothing happens.

@animeholic1: haha, that made me laugh.

@theotaku: the problem isn't that we don't honor the requests, the problem is that these noobs are taking advantage of the forum system and rules and lax policing. Because our admins are busy all the time, and the moderators aren't always here 24/7, these noobs just walk into FAKKU and decide that they post a request with their first f'ing post. And then posting it in the wrong section, or sections. I don't understand what goes on in these noobs' heads when they post.

And for reference, the person that PM'ed me saying, "you're a dick" (verbatim) was, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it...
...
...
...
Yea. A first-post-is-a-request user.

I've had enough. And here's a nice pic to go along with what I feel about this situation currently:

Followed by mad rage.

I'm looking moreso for what we can do about this situation and if what I suggested earlier would be enough or too much or not enough.

edit: I've also noticed that the meet&greet section and the Incoherent Babbling section were moved under Random as subsections - any news as to why?

I agree with g-money completely in theory. Here's the problem with the solutions put forward as I see them.

Yes, the rules could be rewritten and put forward in a more obvious fashion, but the problem with the users that we are discussing is that they are the types to a. never read the rules anyway, or b. to not give two shits about them, or netiquette in general. I don't think thats a realistic solution.

Then we have two options, one being more heavy handed modding. I would not mind at all if this were to become a reality. I'm all for helping newbies out. Even if they're not part of the community, and just made requests as their first posts, if they did it in an intelligent and respectful way, I would have no problem at all. But when they come in and go "hay Can U gUYs Gve Me sum HiNata naRutO heNTaI plz. Thx.", or ignorantly bitch about something "WhY is ThIS CencOrd? I ThInk its StOOPid. DOnt UploAd cenCord stUff plz."... Seriously, I try not to let shit on the internet get to me, but lately I've seen so much of it I just want to stick my fist through my monitor and punch their face in. Since thats not an option, I'd like nothing more then to see them banned. Sure maybe for short periods as a warning like g-money suggested, but its only that kind of action that will get through to these guys. Now I know thats not an easy solution. I think Jacob has said he wants to keep the modding and heavyhandedness down on this site, and I respect that, but it's getting to a point where something has to be done. Also I know that takes manpower, and more people willing to be mods, so I'm not trying to sound like I'm demanding reform, I'm just putting it out there that it could be the best solution.

The third option? Ignore them. Don't reply to their posts, skip over obvious threads, etc. Yeah, its annoying and I wish they could be banned, but if thats too much work to implement, well, its all we can do.

Also g-money mentioned a mandatory post count... Dude, were you not aware they tried that last week, and the forums got spammed to hell and had to be shut down? Not a good option unfortunately.

I've been here a year, and really haven't been that active as compared to many. Still I've come to love this site and I think overall we have a great community. Still, there's no denying its gone downhill lately. Still, its bound to happen whenever a site grows in popularity, and Fakku certainly deserves the recognotion. Also events like motemote battles are inevitably going to give rise to and influx of noobs. But what can you do? I for one, am going to hope for stricter measures, but in the meantime just try to ignore the noobs, and enjoy Fakku as it should be enjoyed.

Anyway.... All this talk of netiquette reminded me of this highly amusing episode of Cromartie High School. So lets take a minute off stewing over noobs, relax, and enjoy some hilarious anime ^_^

@Ryuji: Finally some suggestions/feedback. I’d just like you to know that I highly respect you, Ryuji, because your opinions are rational and well thought out, and I often times I find myself thinking along the same track as you. (e.g. I always wanted a quick reply function on this site as did you… but I guess that’s been put on the backburner.)

Well, regarding the first suggestion, I totally understand your opinion (a & b) because I know that these guys aren’t the types to listen or read carefully or whatnot. Rather than a solution, it’s more of a countermeasure than actually solving anything. It’s really for those who honestly made mistakes and use that to reform their netiquette conduct on the net. Also, it provides FAKKU staff the legality to ban/warn/punish noobs who break the rules since they are clearly written where people can see it and signed to it. In that sense, noobs who then bitch at it have no right to complain since it was clearly written before joining as a member, and as a member the rules are there everyday out in the open for easy reference. Anything to the contrary are just excuses. And I hate divulging more information, but this PM convo I had with this noob I keep referring to is just a prime example of what consists of excuses. This is what he/she wrote: “…so what if I'm new to the site, and yeah I don't read the rules. there are always so many of them, and I know I wouldn't remember them even if I did read them. so don't go off being mean right off…” verbatim. Anyone who provides this sort of shit after asking why punitive measures have been taken against him/her will get a huge laugh in the face and a link to the forum rules. When I read the PM response, I laughed then raged right after - I don’t read the rules? There’s too many of them? I wouldn’t remember the rules even if I read them? Don’t fuck with me because those are just excuses.

Your next opinion regarding your two options I totally agree with. It’s true that there isn’t enough manpower on this site, and this problem has been stated before, but like you said, in light of recent times, we really need that manpower with modding capabilities; these were problems that existed even before Motemote took off this year. When I rejoined the community a month and a half ago, I was already seeing things like this happen. Within weeks, said noob behavior just grew and grew until now it's almost on a day to day basis. As far as I can see, it’s the only real solution, but that has to come from the admin’s decision, though I know Jacob isn’t to keen on modding and heavyhandness… but I don’t see any other way that can effectively deal with this. I know for forums with a member base of over 10000 members, mods are a must, and it almost acts like a mod for every 10000 members exist. Even if we only have an average of 40 active users at any time present, it’s that other 88400 members that are ruining for others.

I was unaware of an attempt to initiate a post count, just that when I woke up the next day, the forums were closed due to spamming. Well, it still works for other forums… but like I said, this is one measure I don’t want to see implemented because it’s heavyhanded, but it’s getting out of hand. If they want it, they have to earn it, leastwise that's the principle behind a post count. (And therefore learning the ropes of online etiquette.)

I try to enjoy FAKKU as much as redirecting noobs and ignoring some of them, but this PM sent to me broke the camel’s hump. That made me snap, and I assuming any rule-abiding user would too. At first I thought it was a troll because I've never heard of said user, but then I looked at his/her only single post, and bam!, a request.

Dude, Cromartie High School was the funniest shit ever. +rep when I can for digging out a great reference.

@g-money. Thanks man, I've noticed the same about you. Incidentally, +rep for bringing this subject up.

I see what you mean about the Rules/FAQ now. That does make sense. Also, I noticed the thread in which that confrontation started when I was browsing yesterday. I have to say your response to that guy gave me warm feelings inside, lol. He may be acting like a little shit about it, but thats still that way to handle things :D

If a mod or admin happens to come across this, I'd be interested to know if you guys have the same feelings on this issue, and what your thoughts on the situation are. I don't expect immediate solutions, I'm just curious to know if your thoughts are running along the same lines.

Anyway, best case scenario, threads like this could start some progress in the right direction, and maybe things can be cleaned up. Right now I'm departing to get some school crap done, and maybe figure out what I'm gonna do for my family/girlfriend for christmas before I get bogged down in finals, lol.

[size=10]
Lmao, I laughed as well.

Anywho, I pretty much agree with everything that you've mentioned, G-money; though the last part did seem a bit heavyhanded as you said. It's a good idea but would probably take lots of effort to put into effect. The first two suggestions that you brought up sound perfect though. Maybe everyone needs the rules to be written down in one place since nobody really seems to want to go and look for old threads, or read the rules/stickies that are on each section, and so on. It could help. But then again, I doubt they'd read the rules even if it was changed. I believe the majority of people see more than a few lines of text/words and don't have the motivation to read it all.

And yeah, there have been a lot of new users joining us lately.

More over, members such as yourself tend to make great suggestions and I usually agree with them. I just wonder if it's too troublesome for Jacob and the other members who help modify and edit the site.. to actually go and make the changes.

Edit: +1 rep for the effort you've put into this topic[/h]

I agree with your ideas g-money (1 & 2, that is). I think that we need a seperate section for all the Rules and FAQ's. Even though there are rules stickied to the top of most of the forums, new users won't check them at all. Either because they don't see them, or just can't be bothered to. Maybe after the creation of a new account, new users are automatically directed towards the Rules and FAQ's forum, so that they don't go wondering in to the site as mindless drones just simply looking for more hentai. It also means that if they break the rules, there is no excuse and get a temp ban (I think something is in the system so that moderators will be able to temp ban people, as we can't at the current time)

The 3rd option, as stated by Ryuji, was implemented a week or so ago and the forums were shut down due to spam. This could be implemented, were there more mods. Though, having said that, it would mean that all mods and admins would be on high alert when entering the forums, having to check every post to see if it is spam or legit. And for a Forum moderator/admin, it'll be alot of posts considering how many there were in the last spam-age of the forums. As stated above, hopefully a temp ban system would be implemented by then, making for easier moderation when the admins aren't around. Raze is stalking a few candidates for moderating positions, who will be contacted via a PM soon. So should system 3 need to be implemented again, it hopefully won't be as bad as it was the previous time.

Ryuji irl?

Ontopic: I like option 3 the most (obviously since it's the method i suggested we use awhile back, and it's the most commonly used method to keep leechers and reporters out), but apperently the leechers spam-invaded Fakku after it was implemented lol, so even though i wasn't here to see either that or the Fakku shutdown i understand why it didn't work.

I don't really think it's too "heavyhanded" either, nublets and leechers should learn that if they run around being demanding little bitches their asses is gonna get burnt, common forum knowledge, if you don't give, don't demand.
Asking for it in a nice way is another story.

Im also all for more mods, especially in the upload-section where n00bs post requests and all kinds of shit in whatever sub-section they feel like.
So a upload-section mod that could clean up all that crap and merge duplicate threads when needed would be awesome
(I vote Kaimax).

@KloWn: Lol @ the picture, hehe. Well, the reason why the post count didn't work is because we lack manpower... either that or we have idiots that created a post-spam program or they don't have lives.


I was also thinking something along the same lines. After being sent the registration e-mail, the user clicks the activation link and gets sent straight to the Rules/FAQ section before further browsing. I also thought that maybe every time we logged into the forums, you get redirected to the Rules/FAQ section... but that'd be too annoying and troublesome.


The problem is this (trying to see it from Jacob's perspective): FAKKU is mainly run by the users and from time to time some admin/mod action and intervention. So if FAKKU turns out so, it'll be the users fault. FAKKU was a great place to hang out, which is why I continue to do so, and the community was great and fun. (I probably got sucked into the forums because it was a great place.) FAKKU is one of the most friendliest and lax forums I've been on, which is part of its appeal to the masses. Problem now is that we have this new age of Endless September where noobs are ruining the forums for the others who dedicate time and interaction here. But like you said Mattarat, option three would require more admin/mod attention and work to the posts themselves - only thing is we've crossed the threshold where the regular users are getting pissed off at the expense of this new influx of noobs where they obviously shouldn't be breaking rules but they do anyways. It's getting out of hand, and we need to see some action soon if not later. I hope to see some new mods. Good thing Raze's on the lookout.

I also think noobs post requests other than in the request section is because they believe that their request will be overlooked due to the sheer amount of requests that go unanswered or unsolved. Thus, they work around that by posting requests in different parts of the forum, especially the User Uploads section, in order to get attention drawn to their request... which does nothing but raise us regular users' ire and rage. This is very likely, but it's because of this that I can't forgive these noobs in a small part of my heart. (Of course, abiding by general netiquette, we gently redirect them to the right place without yelling or cursing or flaming or whatnot.) GRRR!!!

I certainly would support Kaimax as a moderator exclusive for User Uploads. God help us that section is a mess like a house overrun with briars and shrubbery.

edit: Take a look at this thread: https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=12005
I was ready to flame that user to kingdom come... but held it in check. It's because of users like these that ruin the experience for everyone else.

Noobs are good stress release. Let'em burn I say.

I agree with everything that's been said here. All good suggestions tho I think the user upload section with all the misplaced topics that are there needs 3 or 4 mods for it. Kaimax alone is not enough to control the waves of misplaced topics that come into the user upload section. For instance I counted and theres 4 misplaced topics in the user upload section right now. 2 in the videos section, 1 in the Games and CG section and 1 in the Mangas section.

Shit! How'd you find my picture? :lol:



Funny how that works isn't it...


Anyway, I'm glad to hear Raze is looking into things. If there's ever a drastic shortage of people, I'd of course be happy to help keep an eye on things, like the User Uploads as animeholic1 mentioned, I hate to be the type to bitch about a problem and not offer to help >_>

Noobs like these are giving us good noobs a bad name. Now it seems like i'm one of the only noobs that have spell check. Also, is it so hard for them to at least read over their posts before posting them? When I joined Fakku, I followed the ancient forum rule, "Lurk Moar" (my join date will atest to this) and the noobs of today need to follow this rule too. Personally, i am all for these suggestions.

The majority of the time when I make decisions about the forums or various parts of the site I think about what I would do if I were the user. Personally, I would probably never bother to read a FAQ/Rule topic or forum. I have never felt the need to on any site. Maybe that's just because I know how to handle myself online, but I feel the majority of people would ignore it.

Minimum post counts are another idea that I absolutely hate. Because again if I were a user I would just ignore it and lose all motivation to post. I would rather have people see the topics and want to post in them, than be forced to post in order to see them.

We are always looking to make things better for you guys. The community is yours. There would be no fakku without you guys posting. That being said the best option is more moderators. But I personally don't think there is enough posting to warrant moderators for each forum. There are a few forums that do need moderators (and will receive them) but certainly not all of them. Moderation is another thing I prefer to keep to a minimum, and we are very particular about who we pick for mods.

You may have noticed me moving things around earlier, most notable making Incoherent Babbling a sub-forum of Random. This is a change I thought made sense, if there is disagreement I will gladly move it back. What I want to see most on the forums is more good posts across all of the forums, not just any particular one. That is my main goal and just about every change I make is made with that in mind. I like hearing your suggestions. What would make you post more?

I totally sympathsize with you. (Then again, I remember your name and unique avy that I don't consider your a noob - post count don't mean you're a noob in the true sense.) I just don't understand how and why people lack so much common sense. Talking online is akin to talking in real life, and what you write is what people see and react to. Online persona is a very real thing, and that's why flamewars ensue because like real life, people are also passionate on the forums as well. Get this - here's part of the PM reply I had with the same user I referred to in previous posts: "you do know this is online right? and I was asking nicely anyways, you were a dick about it so I called you a dick..." Thank you for pointing out the obvious, and although online it may be, there are rules to follow and you broke them, simply put. It's stuff like this that get regular users mad. When I started out on the forums, (not this one) I rarely posted and like you said MidgarKonotsu, I lurked until I was comfortable in knowing what was appropriate online conduct. Never had problems since joining that one or any other forum. But this... this situation bites the dust.

@Jacob's response: The problem isn't that users ignore the rules and such (the fact that's it's unorganized and scattered does not escape my attention), it's because too many users lack netiquette and common sense and has gotten to a point where regular members meet this stuff everyday, and because of the recent PM, it forced me to make this thread because I've had enough of this nonsense, especially because it reached my PM inbox.

As for moderators, I'm not asking for more moderators per section of the forums, but more like a few in the User Uploads and a couple more general moderators like Gambler, Mike, and Mattarat. A moderator per section is unnecessary and I totally agree with that.

As for restructuring, I don't consider that a bad move, but maybe the Meet&Greet section can be put back to its original place. I don't see a real need to move it, even if its a way for users to raise post count. As for what would make me post more... I post enough as is.

The "minimum postcount" deal is mainly to keep the reporters out and out uploads alive i'd say, the nublets posting dumb shit can easily be dealt with by some mod.

I think moving the IB-section there was a good move, but i don't think the Meet & greet-section should be a sub-section under Random tbh.
But that's me.

Boobs, or maybe some chocolate.

People like that are a real bother. I've seen your post and at no point did you seem offensive. You were pointing out the rules and that's to be commended for. Good Job >_^

I hope people will follow the lead we've been showing lately by not helping said noobs that have made there topic/request until said topic/request is in the request section.

alright alright i get it.
[size=10]i also know that doesnt apply just for me but for everybody. [/h]
these noobs just define what a true noob is.. unexperienced.
though i feel the need to help them, more of these threads and unrelated posts keep on increasing.
it does get annoying at times, though i just try to ignore it.
[size=10]i cant say this to everybody else.[/h]
the idea of getting a few more grade-A hand-selected mods are a great idea! it might reduce the amount of frustration and stress abit.
post count requirements, thats a great idea though last time in play, we got our asses raided.

i just think the mods should get a few more 'extra' powers to be played on the forums like temp-ban or the ablitity to delete threads that we know are of no use.
[size=10]you know what i mean, though all the threads here are cool.[/h]

Ryuji and g-money make excellent points.
and i was like MidgarKonotsu. "Lurk MOAR!"