Regarding rules/FAQs and the influx of new users

Size 12 font, third page?

With just the rules and netiquette?

Err...

Correct me wherever I may fumble with this, please. I've been reading each of you mountainous posts, and while you bring up a wide variety of vary valid points, I cannot, for the life of me, imagine one would need more then a single page to outline rules for a site like Fakku.

From my perspective, Fakku is at it's heart a free community run on 40% official uploads, 10% site maintenance, and 50% community interaction. There is no "Fair" rule-set that comes to mind that would fit in with what Fakku symbolizes that would take up so much room. Again, from my viewpoint, most of the new posters fall into three categories:

A: First-post requesters
2: Came-in-with-an-introduction-then-posted-some-then-lurked
III: Those who deign to stick around.

I spent a few months modding a couple of years back, and the additions to the community there fell into pretty much those three categories. And, without fail, Group A will not give a shit about the rules, Group 2 will attempt to fit in, be unable to find a niche, and go back to lurking, and Group III will usually mature into a respect(able/ed) forum goer. Most trolls fall into group 2.

Considering that, the people who plan to stay around and contribute their ideas to the community are (usually) those people who have the common sense to know basic and sometimes advanced netiquette, and can get by without having to be lead by the ear to the ruleboard.

If I would hazard a guess, I would say that, since everyone who is currently active fits into III, then I think it would be a safe bet to assume that when you try to enter a new community's forum, you don't actually need to browse their rules and regulations, since those usually amount to "Don't be an ass.", plus/minus some specifics depending on the community.

And while I recognize that there do exist forums with highly specialized and specific rules, these communities are also usually dedicated to a small and specific ideology, or are stagnantly populated by a very small group of regulars.

Since Fakku is not like that, and doesn't have any outstanding rules about proper comm procedure, I really cannot comprehend how you have three pages of rules.

Without any FAQs.

Sorry, I should have made it clear; I'm just not drafting a Rules/FAQs page, but two other changes as well. This is a presentation of the changes, so explanation is needed. The actual rules itself takes a little over 2 pages including rules for IRC, and now I'm on FAQs. This is a proposal, so the document will be longer than necessary for explanatory purposes.

Oh.

Well, that makes sense.

Can't wait to see it then, mate.

Well you don't need any rules for the IRC. Hibia already has them assigned to Rei-chan under !rules and he keeps things in order. It's been in activity for about 8 months. Plus, IRC is not the forums, and completly different rules are used in there.

As Mattarat said.

I've been running a bot on IRC for a good year now, with the earliest memory of the rules being around 6-8months ago. I think you should definitely keep your hands away from that area of FAKKU. One could even say that IRC is a completely separate entity of FAKKU, or a sub-community with people gathering who hold similar interests. For instance, this was posted a few hours by tkhnoman, making a joke about Rei-chan's flood kick features. Only IRC users would have chuckled at that. After basically living there for a whole year, I believe that I may hold a slightly better grasp of the place than you ever will. According to the bot, you last left the room 2 days ago. Yes, you may have entered the room around July 11th, but again according to my logs you've never spoken a word.

People on this list would be more qualified for filling out such a thing. http://hibia.secure.la/irc/toptalls.fakku.html

So if you think you're up for writing rules for this strange place you know a little about, feel free to sit in and lurk for a good few hours and meet some of the newer members. If not, butt out.

As for forum rules, I think KISS should apply everywhere. "Keep It Simple, Stupid". Make the rules bullet points, and no longer than about 5 rules per section. Whenever I see a set of rules in a forum, I read it if it's pretty short. Over a page on my 22"? I don't. That's just too much bullshit saying "Common sense would work, but just in case, DON'T PRESS THE RED BUTTON!" Just a friendly note.

If any of your ideas relate to a FAKKU upload system for uploaders, don't bother, we've got it covered.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to playing DS and working...

I concur with Mattarat, the !rules have, are and will be in place to make sure nothing can't be dealt with. And since there is a "Rules are subject to change and alteration without due notice" clause, I doubt there is any need to change it, as it should cover just about every and any situation that may arise.

Also, you don't use the IRC channel. So why mention it? It's already moderated by two people who have old ties with Fakku! on a regular basis, and the other admins can be called upon to help make important decisions. Problems really do not arise that cannot be dealt with swiftly. You have not lurked around in #Fakku long enough to comment on its state.



More like deal with or ignore the newer members, most leave soon without saying or having a word said to them.

Anyway, the invitation still stands to anyone of some intelligence to join the IRC channel, just follow the instructions on the "#IRC" page (the link is up near the bottom right hand corner of the banner, between the "Forums" and "Contest" sections). Come and join the dark side, we have cookies.

But no milk. Stop asking.

well that's what I'm here for condensing text is one of my strong points.

there better be ideas about the uploads forum in that brain of yours.... since it ammounts to roughly 45-50% of the site

MOTEMOTE temporary mod?

Why do i have the impression that every "hardcore" irc user (not only in fakku channel) is a heartless, xenofobic monster?

Nothing against that, i'm that way over some issues too, it's just that this scares the shit out of me about participating in an IRC channel...

(since the quote function is being retarded for me atm, imagine this all seperate quotes)

MOKA!!
MOKA!!
MOKA!!
MOKA!!
MOKA!!
MOKA!!
MOKA!!

I rest my case... the lack of moderation in that forum drive me away when it rears it's ugly head

Probably because you just saw three of them stabbed in the back.

It can be tough to break into a tight knit IRC community, but once you do [by being not-stupid, helpful and ready to take a bit of "newfag" shit] you'll soon learn that quite a lot of us are always on, ready to offer our own sort of wit to any situation. It really is a lot of fun for me. I know most/all of the #fakku users, and they're all pretty nice. Apart from Grim32. He'll hit me for that.

Don't let them scare you, they're actually quite nice :)

I in no way have any say here, I am a newfag. However I figure it's ok for me to give a few suggestions.

Let me start off by saying, I've been going to the IRC since I registered here, lurking in there for a few hours everyday, and I have seen absolutely no need for any further moderation there. It is all kept very ordered, I believe they're doing a fine job, and should be left to continue how they are.

As for FAKKU rules, multiple pages of rules, with explanations of them is one thing, you're presenting an idea to the community after all, things need to be explained, but when you trim it down to the actual rules you still exceed two pages with 12px font? I have a bit of experience with community driven websites, and let me tell you that is a bad idea, VERY few people will take the time to read all of those rules, and things tend to get out of hand when you have such a set detailed rule/guideline structure in place, It is my experience that the best is to keep it simple, no spamming, search before asking, etc. Common sense goes a long way, after that leave moderation to the discretion of the admins, if someone continually neglects to use common sense, don't be afraid to spank the ban button.

That's about all I have to say, I just think with such a nice community, full of a lot of great people from what I've seen thus far, It would be best not to disrupt the balance, fights within the community, ALWAYS lead to the wrong path. A community is a lot like a relationship, if you're always fighting with your partner it wont work out.

Lastly, Maybe the rules do need a bit of reworking, but what works should be left alone, and IRC is certainly in working order, if you want to write up some rules for the site, and change a few, that's probably encouraged, but try to make it all relevant, and not turn it into a case where people are afraid to post.

Goodluck with it all.

The rules drafted by g-money is in no way final. I will personally see to it that it fits in with everything we do, as well as run it through the staff and gathering their opinions before anything is done. It's just a draft, after all. The staff will be the final arbiter on what the rules are.

But many of you raise a good point, in that the rules need to be as concise and have as much impact as possible. No one on a hentai site will sit through and read through a mountain of text, as everyone pointed out; in fact, I have doubts that certain people on the internet even have the intellectual capacity to understand them. With that in mind, you're probably writing too much there, g-money. Target the rules to the typical FAKKU user.

quoted for truth.... besides if I can't shrink it down, I know people that can

Well, I appreciate everyone's response, and KISS is very important. As for IRC rules, please don't bite the messenger. It's not like I'm making this up from scratch. I was using Nikon's old sticky on Rules as a template. It would be dumb not use something that's already in existence, so I what I'm doing is revising it and improving it. Part of his sticky included a section on IRC since he's on IRC for quite a while, so I am in no way being arrogant in trying to cover everything, so I guess I can delete that section. *deletes* Some of the rules are also word for word taken from Nikon's rules, and I saw no need to edit or take them out. So if anything, please go bark at him for trying to write IRC rules in a forum. That being said, the rules are now 1 page and a half. I am writing from what I've seen on the forums, and I've seen a lot of things that would get a normal user mad. Like misplaced topics. Or repeat topics. Common sense goes a long way, but I've seen many honest new members lacking it. So certain things in my opinion must be written down.

Back when I had global moderator status for a short period of time, I edited those rules! There was little/nothing in there about IRC when Nikon threw it up, so I took !rules and re-pasted them there. So it's a direct copy of what I wrote up for IRC. You can't revise and improve rules about something you know nothing about. Yes, Nikon runs the channel, but the poor guy is so overworked and busy these days that he only gets to idle. So, thanks for not including it.

Regarding the rules again, you must be crazy if you think anyone's going to read a page and a half, let alone remember it. But since you're still working on it, good luck. I'd read about half a page to a page only if forced.

And you're not a messenger, you're a decent guy working on the rules.

Hey! I'm not xenophobic!

Er....yeah Hibia does a good job as Queen of the IRC so no need to mess around with rules there.

Please don't hide behind the excuse of being the "messenger"; yes, while you are the one who brought up this topic (this time), you are also the one who is attempting to do something about it, and in the process you are crossing some lines during writing up these rules. You are no longer "just the messenger".

Those rules pertaining to the IRC channel have been mostly worked on by Hibia; the IRC Overlord, being the most active moderator there. No doubt Nikon made a mention to them, but Hibia made sure to elaborate, and since the !rules of #Fakku do not apply here, there is quite little point in having them here. They are already made aware of to every new user who joins the channel, and so there is no excuse for them not reading them. As you have so stated that you saw no reason to change or edit them, and they are basically copypasted off the actual ones, the !rules will continue to stay the same until seen fit. All the other admins/moderators are human and do have their own busy lives, and while both Hibia and Mike are in the channel, there is no reason for further "policing". The channel is such a small part of Fakku! anyway (yes, 40 people in the channel is a small part of the 90,000 users on the site) that really very little moderation is needed. Nikon is most certainly not to be "barked" at, as you have so suggested, and you have no argument on that particular point.

As many others have said before me, please try to take a wider perspective and look at the rules from the view of the average user and those of the regular Fakku! users. What you may consider would get "a normal user mad" may not in fact be something to get upset over. While common sense is so rare it may as well be a superpower, many "honest new members" may lack netiquette, rather than imposing a large amount of long-winded rules, a guide to interacting properly on the internet in general and this site would be better. It would be comparable to helping confused vandals and troublemakers understand how to become a part of society, rather than just throwing them in prison and letting them rot. Rules should only be there to make sure everyone is treated fairly and to protect the site and other users.

On a happier note, it's great to see people thinking of others for once and contributing, but I ask that you do not blame or step on anyone's feet in doing so. And #Fakku is always welcome to new people, but we do ask that you are of some intelligence and the adage "lurk moar" holds true there as well. Always read the topic and Google or ask the relevant forum section(s) before requesting help of #Fakku first.



We are most certainly not xenophobic, we have always taken a fair stance on aliens, time travellers and ESPers, and we're only heartless monsters when required or if its lulzy. So don't be scared to join us in #Fakku, the dark side of IRC.

And if you pay by credit card, we'll give you the milk to go with the cookies. Yes, just call now within the next ten minutes and pay by credit card!

hey arren... put it back in your pants and quit having a dick waving contest. instead of lining him up in front of the firing squad, lets wait for a rough draft then line him up.


sometimes I wonder if I'm one of 5 people on the internet that knows proper writing processes

I was willing to take it from Hibia because I respect him, though all I did was copy and paste from Nikon's sticky and just left it as is before the deletion. I'm not going to take anymore of this from anyone else. As far as I'm concerned, those who haven't been on the forums as frequently as I have have no right to tell me anything otherwise. While I understand that people would get tired of reading rules over a page long, a "guide" for friendly interaction just doesn't cut it for the level of noobness I've seen, nor does that sound any different from a page of rules/guidelines. Even for the average user, I believe that certain things must be force-fed to them. Either that, or they lurk moar. Lurking moar is like the golden rule of forum browsing. If you think you can do better, take my job because then it'll free up my time to do other stuff. I do this in the best interests of FAKKU, and nor do I expect credit because a rules/FAQs page is a must for any forum.

Let me set this straight: I had no intention of "policing" IRC whatsoever - I believed that the IRC rules that Nikon/Hibia wrote were concise and handy, that's all. Since Hibia put the rules there, I had no other reason to assume that it couldn't be part of the new rules/FAQs that I was drafting, and after hearing it from the horse's mouth, I deleted it. And as I said before, I would be dumb and arrogant NOT to use something in existence. So enough with IRC rules, I got the message.

Messenger shmessenger. Semantics. I'm currently having a hard time shrinking the rules to a page even though it's at 1 & 1/3 pages. So when I send it around for feedback, I hope there's some way to shrink even more. (Assuming I get this done tonight. My last final is done, so there's nothing in my schedule except a nice nap and work out at the gym.) If I can't get this done by tonight, it'll be out by tomorrow.