Sooooo I just watched...
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Drifter995
Neko//Night
Lillyflowers wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Lillyflowers wrote...
EmiyaKiritsugu wrote...
Spoiler:
Everyone bitches about shinji. I like him. He's a little kid, and he does his best. It's not good enough, but god damn does he try. Plus, the gaymance is the rare adorable gaymance.
You done fucked up, son. Shinji is a little pussy, who runs away from everything, and has girls save him all the time. And sadly enough, he's more manly in the remakes :|
Lollikittie wrote...
Shinji is an insufferable pussy that makes me want to gouge my own eardrums.I firmly believe that in such an environment, 14 year old males have more of a backbone and strength than that twaffle.
Also, gaymance? what gaymance?
He and kwarou pretty much have gay sex. Or, they do in the original. 3.0 is downloading, shall see later.
You two misunderstand. I'm not saying he's a badass, or good at what he does, I'm saying that, given his situation, he does his best. Lets make a little list of all the shit Shinji has on him.
1) Dead mom
2) Hostile and distant father
3) Frequently must kill angels. It' still killing, even if they are alien-ish.
4) Human race's continued existence often hangs on his shoulders
5) Psychologically attacked by angels
6) No friends. Well...ish. But his emotional connections are weak at best.
Point is, Shinji's a really fucked up kid, and his life sucks. You may not like the way he acts (I don't either) but it's not his own fault. He doesn't consciously think "man I sure am going to run away or fuck up today". He's emotionally fucked up in all sorts of ways and the exactly WRONG sort of person you want to pilot an EVA, but he's the only option.
1&2) and true. His dad blames his mum's death on him, iirc.
3) They are pretty much human. Haven't seen the original in a while to quote it exactly...
4) Eh, kinda.
5) He wasn't ever psychologically attacked by an angel... Asuka was, not shinji. If I'm remembering correctly
6) He has friends, which help him get through things.
As kitty said, those things would only make somebody cold, and distant/ not care about killing. He is selfish (but not) and runs away from his duty.
He's depressed, royally fucked in the head, and wants the world to end (which it does)
But still, he does do good I'll agree (when he actually does it). He runs away from it, quits the eva service (leaving heavily injured rei clones to do his dirty work for him) He does a good job WHEN he does it. Other than that, he's bad
Please excuse my argument for today/ this morning... it's weak, I know... I haven't slept yet >.>
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Drifter995 wrote...
1&2) and true. His dad blames his mum's death on him, iirc.
3) They are pretty much human. Haven't seen the original in a while to quote it exactly...
4) Eh, kinda.
5) He wasn't ever psychologically attacked by an angel... Asuka was, not shinji. If I'm remembering correctly
6) He has friends, which help him get through things.
As kitty said, those things would only make somebody cold, and distant/ not care about killing. He is selfish (but not) and runs away from his duty.
He's depressed, royally fucked in the head, and wants the world to end (which it does)
But still, he does do good I'll agree (when he actually does it). He runs away from it, quits the eva service (leaving heavily injured rei clones to do his dirty work for him) He does a good job WHEN he does it. Other than that, he's bad
Please excuse my argument for today/ this morning... it's weak, I know... I haven't slept yet >.>
My points exactly. He's too busy being a selfish kid in a world where that's simply not afforded. He'd make for a better character were there some noticeable character growth.
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Lollikittie wrote...
Lillyflowers wrote...
I got negrep too, ya know.
Anyway I really think that it depends on the person. Emotional distress and violence can have very different effects. If you've ever seen Full Metal Jacket, that's a perfect example of what you're talking about. However, I don't think we an generalize and say that happens to everyone in a situation like this. I believe that what happens to Shinji is just as likely as him becoming desensitized.
I'm generalizing because in a world in crisis, it's human nature to to focus on the crisis, as opposed to your own issues. It's human nature to introvert when you're ignored long enough. It's one thing to bemoan grand responsibility in a world where there are plenty of other prospects. in Ev, shit's real and gets real-er by the second. There is nothing worse than people bitching about duty when all human life is about to get annihilated.
But all of that pales in comparison to the fact he is just insufferable. He makes an awful main character, because he's constantly whining. He pulls shit out of his ass, but he never seems to evolve to a real man. All he ever does is think childhish 'I sure wish' and 'Gosh, everyone's soooo mean to me' thoughts. It's like... Hi, the world is fucking exploding. If you don't want it to be obliterated, do something. He doesn't have the luxury of bitching and moaning about responsibility when it's an absolute necessity. He does anyway. It makes me want to punch him.
Loved the series though. Just had to tune him out.
Hmm..you know,your argument has some credence. It seems to work the other way for everyone \for ex, Misatao. You know...I don't feel as much hate or dislike as you (I sorta like the kid) but I think you may be, in part, right.
Also, because I'm mentally handicapped and mess up every time I try to quote two people, Drifter, by mental attack I was referring to the black and white angel. Nevertheless, I believe you two have a valid point.
Geez, it's nice to talk to someone about this civilly. I haven't done that...well, wait, actually ever.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Lollikittie wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
1&2) and true. His dad blames his mum's death on him, iirc.
3) They are pretty much human. Haven't seen the original in a while to quote it exactly...
4) Eh, kinda.
5) He wasn't ever psychologically attacked by an angel... Asuka was, not shinji. If I'm remembering correctly
6) He has friends, which help him get through things.
As kitty said, those things would only make somebody cold, and distant/ not care about killing. He is selfish (but not) and runs away from his duty.
He's depressed, royally fucked in the head, and wants the world to end (which it does)
But still, he does do good I'll agree (when he actually does it). He runs away from it, quits the eva service (leaving heavily injured rei clones to do his dirty work for him) He does a good job WHEN he does it. Other than that, he's bad
Please excuse my argument for today/ this morning... it's weak, I know... I haven't slept yet >.>
My points exactly. He's too busy being a selfish kid in a world where that's simply not afforded. He'd make for a better character were there some noticeable character growth.
He does groe is a character... queer whiny man in a world where he the only man left.
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I'll be honest, I don't like Shinji, but I do like every other character, especially Kaworu, Asuka, and Rei. Kaworu's contradictory wants and his inborn needs make for an interesting character. He's deep, emotional and memorable in the series. As I haven't seen him in the rebuild I can't say for certain that that's still true. I find myself fascinated that a character that appears in one episode has such an impact on the story. Like him or not you have to concede that he's memorable, well designed and pivotal in the story. Asuka is an infinitely more interesting and likable character than Shinji. Her reaction to the tragedies in her life are profound, her character is dynamic and you see a real change in her as the story progresses. She was originally supposed to be the main character and should have been, but after Anno's earlier works he wasn't sure how an audience would react to yet another heroine so he changed his original idea and decided to give the spotlight to one of the most unlikable characters in the history of anime. It worked in a sense polarizing evangelion and making it have more notoriety than others, but it detracted from general popularity. Everyone I've talked to about Asuka's final fight with the final model of Evangelion has unanimously agreed that the scene was fantastic and the level of emotion was better than any scene containing Shinji (though my sample size is small it doesn't make it any less unanimous). Asuka is an astounding character and her progression through the story made it a ride well worth the scenes with Shinji. Lastly we come to Rei and the fundamental question of what it means to be human. Just for the deep levels of psychological, philosophical and emotional questions that such a character has it makes them not necessarily be likable, but at a bare minimum be interesting enough to dedicate the time to watch. Rei's character was fascinating because she struggled with questions that were almost as big as the story of the series. Shinji isn't a likable character, but I don't watch Evangelion for Shinji, I watch it for every other character and the aforementioned three specific characters.
Also, the death of Asuka's mother was much more traumatic and interesting than Shinji's mother's death.
Also, the death of Asuka's mother was much more traumatic and interesting than Shinji's mother's death.
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Lollikittie wrote...
Lillyflowers wrote...
You two misunderstand. I'm not saying he's a badass, or good at what he does, I'm saying that, given his situation, he does his best. Lets make a little list of all the shit Shinji has on him.
1) Dead mom
2) Hostile and distant father
3) Frequently must kill angels. It' still killing, even if they are alien-ish.
4) Human race's continued existence often hangs on his shoulders
5) Psychologically attacked by angels
6) No friends. Well...ish. But his emotional connections are weak at best.
Point is, Shinji's a really fucked up kid, and his life sucks. You may not like the way he acts (I don't either) but it's not his own fault. He doesn't consciously think "man I sure am going to run away or fuck up today". He's emotionally fucked up in all sorts of ways and the exactly WRONG sort of person you want to pilot an EVA, but he's the only option.
Did you negrep me? Someone did.
Those factors would more likely make someone colder, not weaker and whinier. He'd be accustomed to not being cared about or listened to, so he'd introvert those emotions. Living in a world like that is much more likely to make someone more accustomed to death and cynicism than Shinji appears to be.
Constant trauma does not make you "colder", accustomed to death or cynicism. It isn't like the movies where the innocent turns into a hardcore killer, instead constant trauma causes MDD (Major Deppressive Disorder) among many, many other disorders, which in turn causes you to become lethargic. Yes, you will become a little apathetic to your immediate environment because your brain isn't able to produce the required chemicals to feel the emotions you should be, because it's too busy producing chemicals that make you feel like shit.
Physical symptoms of trauma:
Insomnia or nightmares
Being startled easily
Racing heartbeat
Aches and pains
Fatigue
Difficulty concentrating
Edginess and agitation
Muscle tension
Psychological & Emotional Symptoms of trauma
Shock, denial, or disbelief
Anger, irritability, mood swings
Guilt, shame, self-blame
Feeling sad or hopeless
Confusion, difficulty concentrating
Anxiety and fear
Withdrawing from others
MDE (Major Depressive Episode)
"A person having a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that were formerly enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred."
- American Psychiatric Association 2000a, p. 349
Of course all of these effects are going to be a lot more severe on lets say, a fourteen year old being pressured into saving the world who was already going through major depression to begin with.
Shinji experiences extremely traumatic events on a regular basis, frankly, if this were reality, he probably would have gone bat shit insane, ran away (for real) or killed himself a long ass time ago.
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Narovka wrote...
Lollikittie wrote...
Lillyflowers wrote...
You two misunderstand. I'm not saying he's a badass, or good at what he does, I'm saying that, given his situation, he does his best. Lets make a little list of all the shit Shinji has on him.
1) Dead mom
2) Hostile and distant father
3) Frequently must kill angels. It' still killing, even if they are alien-ish.
4) Human race's continued existence often hangs on his shoulders
5) Psychologically attacked by angels
6) No friends. Well...ish. But his emotional connections are weak at best.
Point is, Shinji's a really fucked up kid, and his life sucks. You may not like the way he acts (I don't either) but it's not his own fault. He doesn't consciously think "man I sure am going to run away or fuck up today". He's emotionally fucked up in all sorts of ways and the exactly WRONG sort of person you want to pilot an EVA, but he's the only option.
Did you negrep me? Someone did.
Those factors would more likely make someone colder, not weaker and whinier. He'd be accustomed to not being cared about or listened to, so he'd introvert those emotions. Living in a world like that is much more likely to make someone more accustomed to death and cynicism than Shinji appears to be.
Constant trauma does not make you "colder", accustomed to death or cynicism. It isn't like the movies where the innocent turns into a hardcore killer, instead constant trauma causes MDD (Major Deppressive Disorder) among many, many other disorders, which in turn causes you to become lethargic. Yes, you will become a little apathetic to your immediate environment because your brain isn't able to produce the required chemicals to feel the emotions you should be, because it's too busy producing chemicals that make you feel like shit.
Physical symptoms of trauma:
Insomnia or nightmares
Being startled easily
Racing heartbeat
Aches and pains
Fatigue
Difficulty concentrating
Edginess and agitation
Muscle tension
Psychological & Emotional Symptoms of trauma
Shock, denial, or disbelief
Anger, irritability, mood swings
Guilt, shame, self-blame
Feeling sad or hopeless
Confusion, difficulty concentrating
Anxiety and fear
Withdrawing from others
MDE (Major Depressive Episode)
"A person having a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that were formerly enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred."
- American Psychiatric Association 2000a, p. 349
Of course all of these effects are going to be a lot more severe on lets say, a fourteen year old being pressured into saving the world who was already going through major depression to begin with.
Shinji experiences extremely traumatic events on a regular basis, frankly, if this were reality, he probably would have gone bat shit insane, ran away (for real) or killed himself a long ass time ago.
Ohh! Now this is interesting. Thanks for posting this. See, I didn't have any backing of this sort, but this is my general feel about Shinji. That he's strong, not because he's a badass or anything (he's so far from that), but because he keeps trying. He's not perfect and riddled with self doubt and all sorts of problems. What makes him appealing to me is that he doesn't kill him self or quit, even though he has thoughts about it, he keeps trying.
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Drifter995
Neko//Night
So, I just watched 3.0... Aside from the person behind the cam being horribly retarded... it was pretty good.
Tip: Wait for dvdrip at least, before you watch... or at least a better cam... the current cam recordings on thebay are terrible... I saw more of the roof and walls than I did of the movie
Tip: Wait for dvdrip at least, before you watch... or at least a better cam... the current cam recordings on thebay are terrible... I saw more of the roof and walls than I did of the movie
