How can our VN section be improved?

Before I start I want to make clear my intentions making this topic. First off intend this topic to be an open discussion. This topic is not me imposing my opinion nor is it an attack towards anyone or the site itself. All it is is my musings on things that bother me about our VN section and possible solutions.

With megaupload going down, most of our VN's were moved to Mediafire. Since the fourm is more active while files are getting reuploaded, maybe now would be a good time to take a hard look at what we have and how we can organize the forum better.

a couple things bother me about it currently as some of the things I see are confusing and at other time really misleading to people that aren't as familiar with visual novels.

Things that could be improved

1. The translated games masterlist.

- The topic is outdated, many VN's that have english patches are not on the list.

- The topic has too many images and in general is really excessive for it's purpose. The topic doesn't need a spoiler tag for each letter of the alphabet. Each VN shouldn't have it's own picture, a simple list would be nice. Kaimax's masterlist is perfect except for english VN's only

- Also the topic title should be changed so that it says Translated in english instead of just translated. When someone is looking translated VNs the magic word is english.

2. Fakku recommends

- This topic feels outdated and reeks of VN elistism. I think there needs to be a new poll since the old one was done in 2009 and many new great VN's have been translated or released since then.

- The topic layout is good. All featured VN's have pictures of CG's to advertise them. HOWEVER, preveiw pics of Hentai needs to be removed. It's misleading when someone see a bunch of Hentei for a game like Fate/Stay Night. Everyone knows that the hentai isn't why people like Fate so why should it be advertised that way? Every VN in the fakku recommends are VN's that have a good plot, none of them have a huge focus on H content. All that said, the hentai doesn't belong.

3. Topic titles need to accurately say if the game is in english

- Often when a game is posted the language is not specified. Most frequent visitors know what language, people that are most out of the loop are clueless and are usually the ones that ask the inevitable stupid question "is this translated"

- some VN's that were uploaded before the translation patch is out still say they aren't translated when in fact there are translated. Yu-no and Forest come to mind here.

4. The policy for using other people links should be looked at

-Very often in a topic people upload a mirror. +rep to them. However their links are stuck somewhere in the middle of the topic. That stinks. This is a really bad problem now because now 90% of the VN's have mirrors put up in their topic.
Basically when someone clicks on a topic to download a VN working links should be in the first post. It's annoying to have to dig through a topic to find the links.

- A topic with reuploads was posted. That is a really good topic, but it's not the best fix. What should happen is that the mirrors need to go in the first post. I'm not sure how that could be done, unless the original poster edits their topic

- Last problem is asking permission to use links. This is the biggest problem here. Right now if a mirror is posted by another person the topic creator needs to ask permission to use their links. I think that is bullshit. If someone posted a mirror in a topic their intention is so that people download it. Why should the topic creator need permission to put their link in the first post?

This needs to be looked at. The rule should be changed so that the topic creator doesn't need permission to a mirror in their first post if the links are somewhere in their topic.

Keep in mind that using the links outside of the topic still would need permission, this would only apply to links within the topic posted.

5. Misc, other things that bother me

- Vn's should say if they have H content
- Vn's should have preveiw pics, but no Hentai (unless it's a VN that is just there for hentei, I meant that towards any VN with an actul plot, not "Violent Semen Inferno"

-----

Things that are being done right

The VN Masterlist

- Detailed, comprehenive and simple. It's perfect

Our "How to install" section.

- Perfect and as idiot proof as it can get. If they can't figure it out after reading that then they are retarded

Allowed and Banned Filehosts

- Every fourm needs one. Should be updated since megaupload is dead.

Final suggestions

Maybe a What's new section? It could have VN's that were released in the past few months a short review and links. It would be nice to have something showcasing the newest translation patches that have been released.

Anyways there are my thoughts. Now i'm curious about what you think. Let me know.

Yes, it needs updates, and likely will be updated again after all the panic after Megaupload's death dies down. The format is perfect in my opinion, though.



How is it outdated or elitist? It is being updated according to the new posts in the relevant topic, just because it started in 2009 doesn't mean it's been the same all the time. And really, are you complaining about H-content on a hentai site?



Quite many threads are older than the rules/recommendations for upload threads, nothing can be done about that. Still I believe this is a good suggestion and mods can go through the actually working uploads and edit the threads to reflect these changes.



KLoWn is already updating the original first posts with the reupload links. So this is already being taken care of, I don't see why you need to complain here.

I still disagree with your usage of the old KS official DDL links, though. Linking to their download page is fine, the downloads themselves are not.



Since most VNs here are hentai anyway, I don't see why this is a problem, especially on a hentai site.



I would agree, if it would actually be up to date. Still, it's a great help for older uploads.

Yes.



It was perfect when i started the list, now there's too many translated titles for it to be really functional, and i've already talked with people about making it text only. But that was before the fall of Megaupload, and now it can't be updated until all the reuploading is done.



I don't think people are so retarded that they won't understand what it means.



So old VN's stops being good after a certain time? I don't see how it feels outdated, it does however needs to be updated as there's alot of new great titles out that deserves the recommendation, but then we're back at the same problem which we have with the translated list, there's too many good VN's out now and adding them all will just make the post feel cramped and the few titles that've gotten a recommendation doesn't really feel that special anymore.

I've been thinking about this for a long time, but haven't really come up with any solution, and tbh, im not gonna rush, the already recommended titles are awesome, and they won't be any less awesome just because they're a bit old at this point.



What? It's supposed to be a guide to make sure that the newbies first experience with a Visual Novel is a good one rather than some shit that just turns them off. Elitist how?



The hentai pics stay, they're a part of the game, and that's why i made preview pics for them.
Out of the 12 preview pics for each game i generally just have 2 (Sengoku Rance being the exception) of them depicting sex scenes or something similar, the misleading thing would to not have them there if anything.



Most new threads do that, it's the old ones that lacks it, if i personally have to go around and fix it it won't be until after all the re-uploading is done and the Translated List is updated.

The OP's of their respective threads are free to add it at anytime.



99% of the time the thread has a note telling you if the title is translated or not, the people asking are just your typical nubcakes who can't be arsed reading the OP before posting.



You can't expect all threads to be updated with that info 100% of the time, if the OP of that thread doesn't know/doesn't have time to update it then that's the way it is.

I hope you don't expect me to go around updating every thread everytime a translation patch drops.



If the OP, or i, see's it he'll usually add it to the OP, as i've been doing for the last two weeks if you haven't noticed, if not, then you'll just have to dig for it. You already get it for free, can't say that it sounds like that much of a chore to click through a couple of pages to get a Visual Novel without paying for it.



It's not a master list, it's an index to help people see what has been, and what is being reuploaded so that people don't upload the same title.
And there's links to the threads in the list, that's just one click away from getting to the actual links.



I don't think you've understod how this works, mirrors uploaded by a user of Fakku and posted in whatever thread can be, and pretty much always is, added to the OP. on the other hand links that someone just takes from another forum without asking permission for it is forbidden. Why? Because it's not your links to post, and especially since Fakku has had a really big problem with flaggers, so by taking someone else's links and posting them here you're basically killing them off yourself. Kind of a douchebag thing to do.



We're on a H-site, i think people know what to expect, and if not, there's always the preview pics for that.

*reads below* Oh right....



Why wouldn't we show it? As i already stated it's a part of the game, people are not putting it there just because we loves teh random smex.



Isn't that what Kaimax's front posts about newly released Visual Novel's is about?

Well this Guy Darzu knows what he's doing with his personal thread thing because he has no Hentai pics, organized and his english is pretty much perfect. https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=74773 Even though its a personal list it helped me because I get a decent opinion on a vn 100 percented. Don't know if this is what you mean by story focus when posting vns but he apparently doesn't care about sex content that's why he has no Hentai pics.

First you need to stop denying yourself that sex-oriented VNs does not have a plot. They do have a plot even when it's ridiculous and nonsensical. They're just simply "not for you" don't make it sound like "sex-oriented VNs" is ruining the industry.

Honestly, "What's the problem of including H-pics where the VN has hentai?"
Hide it so people would play/read that VN? No, that's just misinforming people.



The only thing that reeks elitism is guys that thinks "plot" is everything and any VN that doesn't have a mind fucking plot is bad.



Been doing it and "stickied" it since 2009, and I even offer people to participate, Translated VNs are not the only VNs that are being released. and of course I've been doing front page posts about newly translated VNs since last year.

And here we go. I figured this topic would be like disturbing a beehive, and I was correct.



The list is going off of old poll data. It's not that the games are old and therefore no good. It's that the poll data is old, and the scene has changed since then.

Think of this this way, lets say that there was a top 10 best movies poll, it would be stupid to not have a new poll each year since great new movies come out all the time. In our case, it's possible for people to change their votes, but most people won't they have long forgotten about it.

If the poll was taken again I don't think it would be the same. Some VN's would be back, but I also think some newer VN's would be on there too. Part of me is legitimately curious.



Yes I am. Let me explain my point of view a bit.

First off I haven't played nearly as many VN's, as you guys. So far I've only done about seven or eight. My goal for the year is to knock off a few more of the "classic" VNs, most of which are on your list. I also want so say that the presentation of the list is really good and informative to someone that is new. But I feel I should explain this further.

First off I don't view Fakku as a Hentai site. There are a few reasons for that. One is you guys. Porn sites don't have good community, but I could go to fakku to have a discussion about pretty much any anime or manga, and in this case, I go to find a new VN.

I also want to get some of my otaku friends more interested in this sort of thing, topics like this help, but there is one land mine that is just really difficult to manuver, the Hentai.

My one friend really like Fate/Stay Night (anime). IMO the VN is way better than the anime, not to mention that two of the best routes aren't done justice, Unlimited Blade Works is crammed into a 2 hour movie and Heaven's Feel is ignored.

So if I were to try to get him into the real thing, first is first, I somehow have to convince him that Fate isn't a hentai game. And guess what that is really fucking hard when the first thing you see is hentai.

This is why I hate the Hentai preview pics. A few pictures can make someone think that a VN is filled with sex when it's not. It's misleading to me.

I understand that not saying anything is also as misleading which is why I there has to be a tag saying that it is 18+.

To me a good VN is an experience. Visual Novels fastinate me because of their unique way of story telling. We have seen visual novels tell stories terrifying horror like Higurashi, have mind blowing plot twists like in ever 17, have some epic fights like in Fate/Stay Night or move someone to tears like in Clannad. All of those things are possible because of how visual novels work. If people see hentai they start linking it with Eroge and porn and that was when people turn up their nose at it. Yes I realize most VN are Eroge and I hate that some times, but I guess that is just the nature of the medium.

By eliminating the hentai preview pics that blow can be softened. Once people start playing the game, it obvious that it's not just an eroge. The key is getting that far.



Your an idiot if you think people actually play a sex oriented VN for the plot. Do our doujins have a plot? Not really. It's two people that we know will end up fucking some how.

I never liked about so many VN are hentai focused eroge. It makes the good games look bad. Guilt by association.



Since you brought this back up, I'm going to put this to rest once and for all. I'll ask the Dev's what their rules are exactly.

Sounds elitist.

You're the actual idiot for stereotyping them. Like I said, as heavy sex oriented they still have their own plot, whether you like it or not, weird or not, and even good or not sex-oriented VNs do have plot. and I already kindly ask you in a previous post not to underestimate them, and actually try the ones that I actually suggested.

The one who's the elitist in here is you or even worse you're one of those damn purist, that thinks eroge shouldn't exist. But sorry to inform you without eroge the VN industry would never exists.

How can those sex-oriented makes your so called good games look bad. "Guilt by association", bitch please. I feel bad when people like you are in the community spouting out "epic plot" "epic plot" "epic plot".

I play random VNs to find which one do have a nice plot and which ones are there for fapping. If I find one that actually have a good plot, I'll happily share it with others. If I didn't get one, then I get some fapping material for a week.

So, what makes you think that you have the right to call all sex-oriented VNs is bad when you only played a handful of VNs? You think you're an expert, when the only thing you play is just the recommended ones?



You just simplified my whole post.

Oh, why, thank you; I'm glad my thread was of some use for someone. Though, it is a personal list, and my thread relies on the ratings I give to the VNs.



On this topic though:
I find it kind of strange how I don't use the term "eroge" and only use the term "Visual Novel". This may be biased coming from one such as myself, but sexual content does not really matter. (Examples already used: In Ever 17, intercourse was hinted at, but never shown and it still worked. In Yume Miru Kusuri, intercourse was shown, but wasn't needed, and could have been hinted at or implied instead) However, the fact of the matter is: this is a "Hentai" website, and even if it doesn't seem like it is, "Hentai" is the primary focus.

There are very few individuals [such as myself] who do not wish to present VNs in a sexual manner, but that preference should be kept personal; this is why my thread specifically is titled with a big fat [Personal] in front of it.
We cannot simply force the idea [of completely censoring the sexual content of story-focused VNs] upon a portion of the Fakku community (VN go-ers), because that is not the preference of everyone, and this is especially the case since everyone here should be well aware that Fakku is a "Hentai" website.

It's not misleading, it's not misinforming, it's just how it is.

As for the other things: It takes time, and I'm sure the suggestions were appreciated, but they cannot be done overnight. Most everything takes time, effort and energy (obviously).

Your not getting what I'm saying. I'm not calling your VN's bad or mine superior. What i'm saying is that the medium is limited by what it's become.

I'll admit that VN's would not be successful if it weren't for the role that hentai plays. However while this has helped VN's establish themselves as something credible. It hurts them too.

I have a cousin that really likes bleach and other anime like it. I read Fate/Stay Night and was thinking "Hey I bet he would really like the story. They have many things in common."

I can't show him Fate for one reason. He's still 14. See the problem?

...

so how does this relate to how the Vn section is run? The point is this. Any game with nudity no matter how innocent is a porn game in the eyes of the law, and most other people as well.

I like porn. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Like doujins and hentai anime too. Good times...

anyways, if you want a Vn plot of be taken seriously it needs to not be thought of something that is there for the sex. That's the whole point of this discussion. I can't remove the porn. I something dislike it, and other times it's great stuff. I just feel that if someone clicks on a topic because the name of a VN interests them, it's a good idea to leave the fact that is has hentai as a footnote.

Really I don't understand why you call me elitest. I don't have time to read as many VNs as you. I work full time and play wow (second job :( ) plus I have some real life friends too. I'm busy. I play VN's when I can because I want to see more things and stories. I'm ok with porn being a part of it because I see past that and realize that many VN's (yes even the hentai oriented ones) have a good story.

Say what. I finished KS and i'm off this weekend. Recommend me the next VN to read and i'll read the whole thing, no questions asked but it must be a VN that is translated in english.

Heck I'll even tell you my opinion of it.

I really am an open minded person. I'm not trying to be elitist. I simply want people to see the medium in a different light than it is, and it's hard when people that don't know much link VN's with porn game or dating sims.

What about the people who would not have gotten into contact with Thy Holy VN Genre if not for the ero screenshots?

Next, wtf was the point of this thread again? Convincing people to do things the way you believe should be done? Would it not be simpler to just... Do it by yourself? (at least for the ones that you can)

My thread is open 24/7. *Points at signature*
Edit: By the way, I noticed today marks the day of your account being 2 years of age in Fakku; congrats on that.

So your problem isn't with the list as it is, simply the numeric value we have placed upon the VNs that suggests one is better over the other? Because if that isn't what you're going for you can forget any changes. The list won't be changed and the Vns represented there scraped simply because newer Vns are out.

As for the issue of the very bottom of the list says 1 = blah Vn and 2 = blah VN then it's up to KLoWn to make a new poll and redo the "best of/your favorite Vn thread" though I'm pretty sure he has already stated that he updates it every year. Vns come out very slowly, so that time frame is just fine. No need to change it just to get more updates on that thread. If a VN is good, you'll find it if you try hard enough.



Well you should, because it is.



You have Otaku friends who aren't interested in hentai which is fine, but misrepresenting a VN by not showing that it has hentai scenes in it would be insulting to those who thought it would not and are uncomfortable with it. You can't lie to people about a media lacking or not including something they're uncomfortable with and then they found out you lied.



It would also make you a liar.



Are you implying that the sex in F/SN effects the experience in a negative way? Because that is so subjective. I think that the sex in F/SN adds to both you connecting with the characters on a deeper level as well as having an actual reason for Saber existing after a certain point in the game.



The sex is part of that experience. To hide it from people would be misinforming them, which we won't do.



Sounds Elitist.



Plenty of sex oriented Vns have a good plot as well as Doujin and h-manga. You're just holding these things to an unfair standard.



The problem of him not being old enough to play the game? Because that's the only problem I see. That's a terrible example as it's an adult game and simply taking the hentai pics out of the thread won't change that.

I will end it on this. It seems to me what you really want is for the VNs themselves to not have hentai. It would open them up to people that are unwilling to read them be it by choice or by law that are around you. There's nothing we can do about this and to not have the hentai pics in the thread would be misinformation. We can't subtly put in a foot note, "Oh by the way this has hentai in it." What if someone is reading the VN in their classroom or living room with friends or family around. So many NSFW situations would end in a bad way.

If someone is stupid enough to judge the merits of a VN off of the preview pics as to whether it's good or not then it's their loss.

Tl;dr No.