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Squaresoft + Enix = Fail?
The merging of the 2 companies, was it a bad thing?
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I don't know. The only game I've played from them before the merge was Kingdom Hearts. I also played the DS version of FF4, but that was made after the merge, so I don't know if it counts.
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lazyasschillypepper wrote...
When Squaresoft and Enix were 2 separate companies making various video games, I thought they were better off that way.
When I think of Enix, I think of Star ocean and Valkyrie profile.
When I think of Squaresoft, I think of the various FF titles (before the ps2), Parasite eve, Brave fencer Musashi, Chrono trigger...etc.
But ever since the 2 merged, I think the quality of the games being released have gone downhill. The 2 separate were capable of great rpg's! But together...
Final fantasy 12, for example, was horrible to me. Drakengard was......yea....no comment. About the only game I can think of right now that I enjoyed from them was Kingdom hearts 2...
What do you guys think?
When I think of Enix, I think of Star ocean and Valkyrie profile.
When I think of Squaresoft, I think of the various FF titles (before the ps2), Parasite eve, Brave fencer Musashi, Chrono trigger...etc.
But ever since the 2 merged, I think the quality of the games being released have gone downhill. The 2 separate were capable of great rpg's! But together...
Final fantasy 12, for example, was horrible to me. Drakengard was......yea....no comment. About the only game I can think of right now that I enjoyed from them was Kingdom hearts 2...
What do you guys think?
Well Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile are actually tri-ACE, a developer whose games Enix publish. Similarly Dragkengaard was made by Cavia. Enix's flagship title is Dragon Quest and Dragon Quest VIII (made post-merger) is probably the pinnacle of the series. I don't really like FFX and X-2 is just cheaply made fanservice, but they're both still better than FF, FFII and FFIII. It's not quite as simple as "before or after the merger", really.
They've both always made their fair share of shit, a lot of middling stuff and then the odd classic; it's the same before and after. FFXII dared to be different and created the most detailed and expansive world ever seen in a FF game. The more conservative fan complained about how it wasn't just a rehash and now we get FFXIII which is essentially a long tunnel with different textured walls, peppered with cutscenes.
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Teclo wrote...
Spoiler:
It just feels like they make more bad/shit games then good/great games. The ratio isn't good.
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Teclo wrote...
lazyasschillypepper wrote...
When Squaresoft and Enix were 2 separate companies making various video games, I thought they were better off that way.
When I think of Enix, I think of Star ocean and Valkyrie profile.
When I think of Squaresoft, I think of the various FF titles (before the ps2), Parasite eve, Brave fencer Musashi, Chrono trigger...etc.
But ever since the 2 merged, I think the quality of the games being released have gone downhill. The 2 separate were capable of great rpg's! But together...
Final fantasy 12, for example, was horrible to me. Drakengard was......yea....no comment. About the only game I can think of right now that I enjoyed from them was Kingdom hearts 2...
What do you guys think?
When I think of Enix, I think of Star ocean and Valkyrie profile.
When I think of Squaresoft, I think of the various FF titles (before the ps2), Parasite eve, Brave fencer Musashi, Chrono trigger...etc.
But ever since the 2 merged, I think the quality of the games being released have gone downhill. The 2 separate were capable of great rpg's! But together...
Final fantasy 12, for example, was horrible to me. Drakengard was......yea....no comment. About the only game I can think of right now that I enjoyed from them was Kingdom hearts 2...
What do you guys think?
Well Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile are actually tri-ACE, a developer whose games Enix publish. Similarly Dragkengaard was made by Cavia. Enix's flagship title is Dragon Quest and Dragon Quest VIII (made post-merger) is probably the pinnacle of the series. I don't really like FFX and X-2 is just cheaply made fanservice, but they're both still better than FF, FFII and FFIII. It's not quite as simple as "before or after the merger", really.
They've both always made their fair share of shit, a lot of middling stuff and then the odd classic; it's the same before and after. FFXII dared to be different and created the most detailed and expansive world ever seen in a FF game. The more conservative fan complained about how it wasn't just a rehash and now we get FFXIII which is essentially a long tunnel with different textured walls, peppered with cutscenes.
I agree with your opinion of FF12, it was very unique. sure it wasn't an epic quest to defeat a mad man who wants to take over the entire universe, but the detail they gave the characters backgrounds was rich.
The biggest complaint was that the gambit system made it so you didn't have to do anything in a battle. simple solution. on the character your controlling don't have any gambits, and on the others, have simple gambits so you can easily control your party from the battle menu.
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Teclo wrote...
FFXII dared to be different and created the most detailed and expansive world ever seen in a FF game. The more conservative fan complained about how it wasn't just a rehash ...FF12 gave us a huge world, but no reason to explore it other than grind as you auto-kill everything in your way. It also didn't help that most of the world wasn't worth looking at as it consisted mostly of rocks and sand. I mean, it's nice not seeing grass and trees for 90% of a game, but sands and rocks aren't much better. The game doesn't even reward you for map completion like Star Ocean 3.
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Spoiler:
I know it all comes down to each person's opinion but I greatly preferred FFII to FFX, and anyone that knows me knows how much I love DQIII over any other DQ game. Sadly I appear to be in the minority anymore (though there are a surprising amount of people who sympathize with me here on Fakku). As far as FF X-2 goes... I only tried the demo, but that alone was enough for me to want to burn my PS2 and find a vial of holy water to douse the flames with.
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ZeroOBK wrote...
@WhiteLion: I can't speak about Bioware since I have no interest in anything they produce, but I think that JRPGs are faring just as well as any other genre. Sometimes, I think that people think of Square Enix first when they think about JRPG stagnation and forget about everything else out there. A part of me also wonders if SE shot themselves in the foot during the PSX era. Now the RPGs produced by SE have to push graphical boundaries.lazyasschillypepper wrote...
We're not the ones who set the standard high, Squaresoft did, back when their games were hit after hit.This comment made me realize that even Bioware could fall prey to this. I mean, I imagine it's pretty hard to keep producing hit after hit.
It's not like there are never any more good JRPGs made these days(FF12 was a good game, Valkyria Chronicles was good, playing Resonance of Fate now and it seems pretty good so far), but I think that there are certainly some important areas that JRPG developers have lost a lot of ground on when compared to developers such as BioWare and Bethesda.
-meaningful character customization: In Neverwinter Nights, I can make my main character be anything: a squishy wizard who can unleash powerful spells, a muscly dual axe-wielding barbarian, a sneaky guy with knives, etc. Elder Scrolls just let you pick which skills you wanted. In a lot of JRPGs, there is a clear main character, but that character's skill set is defined and cannot really be changed. For me, being able to customize my main character adds a lot of gameplay value. I can influence the style of my character, and I might be compelled to replay the game because, with different choices, gameplay would be different. Even if a main character has a set personality in keeping with the storytelling traditions found in most JRPGs, why not let me build my character's abilities and play the character in whatever style I want? A few games have allowed customization, but generally not the flagship titles, and when FF10 tried to introduce customization, it was horribly executed.
-user created content: for games like Morrowind or NWN, anyone could edit the game, create new races or classes, build areas. It could get a little complicated, but simple tweaks were easy, and there were always people who did take the time to create cool stuff and posted it for download. Adding new stuff to the NWN games based on user created content added a lot of replay value to the games for me.
-seamless movement in larger worlds: why does the screen need to disappear for random battles in linear dungeons these days? Elder Scrolls games had huge worlds that were fun to explore and the enemies remained significant no matter when you decided to do the main quests because the game took your level into account. Neverwinter Nights had all the enemies right there with you on the main screen even though the game was turn-based combat. It got rid of annoying random battles(you could see the monsters and try to avoid or ambush, or just run in and start hacking away) and made things like fleeing a much more interesting decision(FF12 copied this style of play and was a big improvement over FF10 in that regard).
Of course, the conventions of JRPGs also give them some advantages in comparison to the way Bethesda or BioWare does things, but I don't think the JRPG producers have done a very good job leveraging these advantages on the whole.
-predefined character personalities: As a writer, getting to design all the characters' personalities and dictate their important plot actions makes writing a compelling story a less complicated than if you have to account for wildcard PC choices that affect characters' relationships or even the main plot of the game. JRPG developers should use this to create more interesting and memorable characters and take more risks in storytelling. They don't seem to though. We just get more spikey-haired idiots eager to save the world who don't really face many challenging decisions. Trying out different character types(for example, I enjoyed how the main character in CHAOS;HEAD wasn't the usual VN guy) could produce interesting results. But games with great stories have memorable characters(like Old Snake and Otacon in MGS4 for me). Also, just taking more storytelling risks in general. For example, Aeris's death in FFVII. That's not supposed to happen! Important party members don't die halfway through the game, especially not when they seem to be being setup as a love interest for the main character! It made an impact.
-imaginative excess: Where did my limit breaks go? When I get beat up, I get mad, and when I get mad, I want to beat the crap out of something! I loved the idea of limit breaks, and in general I've enjoyed the willingness of the Japanese game developers to use imaginative excess where the western designers have been a bit more realistic(as least, as best the word can be applied to things like fantasy and steampunk). I liked the summons in FF10. Screw that, fight my giant monster! I didn't like at all how they were changed for FF12. But yes, I want my crazy ultimate attack that defies the law of physics because it is awesome!
There's a ton that could be said on this, but I don't want to post an epic discourse. I do hope though that many more amazing JRPGs are published. I love a game with engaging gameplay and a compelling story.
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Generally, yeah its a fail merger, though there have been a few gems. My faith in the FF series has faltered somewhat but not enough for me to stop buying and playing them. I give Square-Enix props though for trying to cater to western gamers through FF13, I see mixed reviews on that game all over the intarwebs and magazines. I'm enjoying it so far, on chapter 8.
As for Bioware, EA is going to milk them and toss them to the side when they cannot profit from the mediocre to bug-laden games anymore, and rely on people to buy overpriced dlc.
As for Bioware, EA is going to milk them and toss them to the side when they cannot profit from the mediocre to bug-laden games anymore, and rely on people to buy overpriced dlc.