[Locked] Jacob "Jimmy Russling" Grady

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@longevity

"I can be high and mighty since I have never and will never download anything off of any hentai site." "It isn't a matter of reliance it's a matter of not paying for services rendered."

I'm not sure if I'm quoting out of context, if I am please correct me. You seem to be contradicting your own fundamentals. The services rendered for most manga/doujinshi is actually a one time read or a few times read. If it weren't, then the Japanese Government wouldn't be initiating this plan to get all forms of anime/manga off of the web(English part of it mostly) (true story, go search I forgot the link, would be great if someone knowledgeable would provide them)

@drifter1995
"How is fakku not a legit business, when it sells legit manga and items to fund the site, as well as getting funding from ads."

Doing legit business and being one is two different things.
If I sell illegal drugs and sell a single kind of T-shirt which has a picture of weed, and I gain most of my profit from the illegal drugs, would it be a legit business in your eyes?
If the pirate bay started selling T-shirts, would it suddenly turn into a legit business?

They will not. From my understanding of the English language, legit business means a business means a business that is in it's total legal, or at least most of it is.
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Drifter995 wrote...
And do explain how he is making a profit off that? Off people visiting a site?

But it doesn't pirate anything wani related now. Nobody does. They've all been removed it from what I've seen.
Convention work? You mean the work where they sit at conventions and sell shit there, making a profit for themselves? Or something else?
Also, jacob didn't contact them to remove anything affiliated with fakku books, wani already did that to everyone. Jacob asked them to not host anything from the fakku books.

It has never claimed innocence. It is well aware of what it is for. It has a store to get profit, for which is used to pay for majority of things, including server hire.

And this means it's legit sales side is not legit? I'm well aware of what the site does. Tell me, how does this make it not a legit business. As I said, it sells legit manga and shirts, to make a profit. That, is a business.

So, you're telling me, a publishing company ISN'T paying it's staff? I think you're wrong.
I assume the reason wani asked for things to be pulled was a lack of business, etc. And with this, jacob is giving them money for their work, which an amount will go to their artists/ mangaka. They are probably also looking to widen their range of buyers to interstate/ overseas to the western market for more profit again, and to have more funds to pay their artists more, to release more, etc etc. as was said earlier.
Many already have deals with other places. J-list sells a whole bunch of hentai. If they were to make a deal with a rather large hentai website, they would probably grow as well. It's not at all throwing a brick through their window with a note saying 'Make a deal with us, or we'll keep stealing your shit' It's a company saying 'No, we want you to remove all of our illegally uploaded products from your site, or we'll take action' followed by some talking it out, for them to release it in english (and uncensored) to the western market, so the wani based stuff is still available, and hasn't been kept to strictly japanese people in jap mags or whatever.
It was in no way jacob making the initaition for them to ask everyone to remove shit, so he could make a profit.


You got your answer about that, even though it's an obvious situation.

I was criticizing this 'moral high ground' and claim of repentance as fake. Fakku is still a pirating site. The change is that it's a commissioned pirateer now that only attacks rival companies' ships.

Convention work includes doujins (parodies) and stuff that don't involve a publisher. Since there's no intermediary, mangaka keeps more of a profit there. Fakku still is pirating those and that's an even bigger blow to the creators that they're claiming to support. They told that they won't be translating those, so pirating of your favorite mangaka will continue on this site that claims to support them!

Jacob doesn't need to do a thing about it. They'll be aggressive now because it means a challenge to their business. Fakku Books is the reason even if Jacob told them not to do it, which he didn't. In fact he keeps telling it's their right. Even if it's true, he doesn't really mind it. His attitude and position is irrelevant in any case as long as the deal stands.

As legit as the mafia operating a restaurant or laundry shop on the sidelines. Does that make mafia a legit organization? Legit would mean no dirty business to keep the ship afloat. As the laundry shop wouldn't sustain Corleones, I doubt Mega Milk t-shirts would sustain Fakku. (this mafia thing is just an analogy, don't take it seriously BTW)

Mangakas aren't their staff. Mangakas are more like football players and they can change their companies. Wani doesn't pay a penny for stuff they create if they're not the one publishing it. This would include convention work, doujins and short mangas as I mentioned previously.

An amount will trickle to them for their contracted works but that would still be a slim amount. That's okay but the most they would earn would be with no middlemen involved, that'd be their convention work, which is STILL getting pirated by Fakku. And Fakku won't be paying them anything for their hard work. So it goes contrary to what they're saying about 'supporting the authors we love'. The most anyone could ever support a mangaka would be buying their convention stuff, not pirate it!

You don't need to go out and shout "we'll pirate your stuff but not Wani's because we have a deal with them". Wani's rivals would hear this news before anyone else here, those are businessmen. They'll be waiting to see how the sales go and if it works out. If it does, it'll be stupid of them to not get involved in the same way. Why? Because their stuff will be freely distributed by the same Fakku who sells Wani's stuff!

Jacob didn't initiate this but he sure did turn this into a grand opportunity at the cost of both his pirate rivals and western hentai readers. It's like those American native tribes who made deals with the white man to get rifles and shoot rival tribes. (another analogy, again don't take it seriously) Good for him but don't expect everyone else to be happy, when there are ample reasons not to be. And this whole 'supporting mangakas' ideal is a hypocrisy as long as this site continues to pirate hentai.
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Lol I get back on 13 notifications of +1 -1 rep on posts in this and 2 in Jacob is a huge jerk.

Someone is mad.
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Not me, I don't even have a button for that.
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Ultramarinus wrote...
Not me, I don't even have a button for that.


It's just funny.
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The number of analogies that have to be disclaimed on this page makes me wonder if they're worth writing to begin with.
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They're worth writing, they're not worth getting mad over however, hence the disclaimers. The last thing I want to deal with is someone going crazy over it.
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By mad, you probably mean calling you on how the comparison is mostly wrong because it's taking one clear historical villain well known for extortion and comparing it to a hosting site with ads and a social media experiment gone right.
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Lughost the Lugoat
Longevity wrote...
Lol I get back on 13 notifications of +1 -1 rep on posts in this and 2 in Jacob is a huge jerk.

Someone is mad.


Niggapls, 22
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Futabot wrote...
By mad, you probably mean calling you on how the comparison is mostly wrong because it's taking one clear historical villain well known for extortion and comparing it to a hosting site with ads and a social media experiment gone right.


I meant this.

The analogy was about an illegal and immoral business operating behind a legit cover but somebody had to nitpick about villains and whatnot, denouncing it.
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Likhos01 Monster Girl Lover
Ultramarinus wrote...
Futabot wrote...
By mad, you probably mean calling you on how the comparison is mostly wrong because it's taking one clear historical villain well known for extortion and comparing it to a hosting site with ads and a social media experiment gone right.


I meant this.

The analogy was about an illegal and immoral business operating behind a legit cover but somebody had to nitpick about villains and whatnot, denouncing it.


Except the illegal part isn't business for Fakku, it's free.
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Likhos01 wrote...
Except the illegal part isn't business for Fakku, it's free.


It's free but it still is about obtaining financial gain due to the traffic generated, a business, not a charity.
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Drifter995 Neko//Night
dandelion wrote...

@drifter1995
"How is fakku not a legit business, when it sells legit manga and items to fund the site, as well as getting funding from ads."

Doing legit business and being one is two different things.
If I sell illegal drugs and sell a single kind of T-shirt which has a picture of weed, and I gain most of my profit from the illegal drugs, would it be a legit business in your eyes?
If the pirate bay started selling T-shirts, would it suddenly turn into a legit business?

They will not. From my understanding of the English language, legit business means a business means a business that is in it's total legal, or at least most of it is.


Both of the analogies used by you and ultramarinus are so bad, it's either not funny, or too funny that I can't figure it out.
There is a massive difference between illegally selling drugs/ money laundaring and hosting for free. Are you aware that both of those things (drugs and laundering) make tonnes of money, where ad money makes nothing? Let's add into the equation that about 60% of people minimum have adblock, which also kills site funding. Do you think he would have opened the store if the ads were profitable enough?
Again, hosting free hentai manga and getting ad revenue to pay for server hosting is in no way comparable to illegally selling anything. Nor the mafia. Those are both horrible horrible analogies.

Ultramarinus, I'll reply to your post in detail in like 8 hours, when I've finished work (provided I remember)
Too painful to do on my phone/ won't have the time soon, which makes it hard
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Drifter995 wrote...
Lughost wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Cinia Pacifica wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Cinia Pacifica wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Ultramarinus wrote...
1- Pirated works are the main content and traffic generator, tell me if it isn't and what is.


And do explain how he is making a profit off that? Off people visiting a site?


I believe he's referring to the ad money Jacob apparently makes from the users who views them.


I know, hah.


We all did.

Your avi turned more l00d now.


Avi is always l00d
Was going to go for something with a death stare and boobies in it, but this works too


Is that from that one Pinvise book?


Not actually sure


It is. Well. Rather old.

https://www.fakku.net/doujinshi/when-the-angels-away-english/read#page=21

[size=28][color=#9D0A0A]GRORIOUSH ASSH IS GRORIOUSH.[/color][/h]
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Lughost wrote...
Longevity wrote...
Lol I get back on 13 notifications of +1 -1 rep on posts in this and 2 in Jacob is a huge jerk.

Someone is mad.


Niggapls, 22


You have more posts.
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Drifter995 wrote...
dandelion wrote...

@drifter1995
"How is fakku not a legit business, when it sells legit manga and items to fund the site, as well as getting funding from ads."

Doing legit business and being one is two different things.
If I sell illegal drugs and sell a single kind of T-shirt which has a picture of weed, and I gain most of my profit from the illegal drugs, would it be a legit business in your eyes?
If the pirate bay started selling T-shirts, would it suddenly turn into a legit business?

They will not. From my understanding of the English language, legit business means a business means a business that is in it's total legal, or at least most of it is.


Both of the analogies used by you and ultramarinus are so bad, it's either not funny, or too funny that I can't figure it out.
There is a massive difference between illegally selling drugs/ money laundaring and hosting for free. Are you aware that both of those things (drugs and laundering) make tonnes of money, where ad money makes nothing? Let's add into the equation that about 60% of people minimum have adblock, which also kills site funding. Do you think he would have opened the store if the ads were profitable enough?
Again, hosting free hentai manga and getting ad revenue to pay for server hosting is in no way comparable to illegally selling anything. Nor the mafia. Those are both horrible horrible analogies.

Ultramarinus, I'll reply to your post in detail in like 8 hours, when I've finished work (provided I remember)
Too painful to do on my phone/ won't have the time soon, which makes it hard


You're moving the straw-manning my argument. The analogies were to make it obvious that what you stated was absurd, perhaps that's why it's funny.
"hosting free hentai manga and getting ad revenue to pay for server hosting "
Let's say the little amount of ad can pay for even a small amount of the server as you said ( I SERIOUSLY doubt the merchandise currently gets much money). That still is money earned off content that is NOT yours. You are benefiting off of other's copyrighted works. This is illegal. Which of course also means that the business is not legitimate.

I could have not replied since the thrust of my post wasn't my analogies, rather it was that the notion of this site being legit is absurd. Attacking the joke analogies or examples will get you nowhere.

Edit: I like how you say they're inapplicable because one makes a lot of money while the other makes little. That sure is how things are classified as legal or not. The only crime shall be murder haha, intimidation assault battery that's nothing lol that's surely legal. Facepalm
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Drifter995 Neko//Night
Ultramarinus wrote...
You got your answer about that, even though it's an obvious situation.


Quite true

Ultramarinus wrote...
I was criticizing this 'moral high ground' and claim of repentance as fake. Fakku is still a pirating site. The change is that it's a commissioned pirateer now that only attacks rival companies' ships.


Who claimed repentance, and who was holding a moral high ground? From my understanding, it was people critisizing weebs for crying over having to pay for something/ for not being able to access content without paying that you won't be able to on any other site anyway, nor would you be able to if fakku hadn't made the deal.
As I said, it's not attacking other ships, that was already done by wani. As the content is still wani's, the content removal still applies.

Ultramarinus wrote...
Convention work includes doujins (parodies) and stuff that don't involve a publisher. Since there's no intermediary, mangaka keeps more of a profit there. Fakku still is pirating those and that's an even bigger blow to the creators that they're claiming to support. They told that they won't be translating those, so pirating of your favorite mangaka will continue on this site that claims to support them!


So, first of all; yes. They do convention work, due to a lack of funds, of which pirating can kill, which the removal of it from pirate ships sorts some of. They also do it to get extra money in their pocket, and to meet fans, etc. Fairly sure fakku isn't pirating the art work they are commissioned at conventions, as that's not what it does. Commissioned doujins? Maybe.

Ultramarinus wrote...
Jacob doesn't need to do a thing about it. They'll be aggressive now because it means a challenge to their business. Fakku Books is the reason even if Jacob told them not to do it, which he didn't. In fact he keeps telling it's their right. Even if it's true, he doesn't really mind it. His attitude and position is irrelevant in any case as long as the deal stands.


So they'll do similar things with other companies like J-list, Which they have already been doing. Perhaps wani isn't the first to do such a deal, just the first to do such with fakku? Perhaps wani is the only one that has called for the removal of it's content from hosting sites such as this? Seems to me like wani is jumping on a ship here for more sales, following other examples. Not doing something overly new and insane.

Ultramarinus wrote...
As legit as the mafia operating a restaurant or laundry shop on the sidelines. Does that make mafia a legit organization? Legit would mean no dirty business to keep the ship afloat. As the laundry shop wouldn't sustain Corleones, I doubt Mega Milk t-shirts would sustain Fakku. (this mafia thing is just an analogy, don't take it seriously BTW)


As said earlier, big difference between hosting anime porn, and murder/ money laudering/ control of a city area. Horrible horrible analogies.
Two things for it;
1. There is more ads on the forum side of things than the doujin side, and with the amount of people who do both things with adblock, the revenue raised wouldn't be much. As I said, if it was making enough money to support the forums, and jacob, he wouldn't have opened the shop now, would he? Strictly business.
2. There is literally 20x more things in the store than just the mega milk shirts. doujins from -Guess what- a previous deal with mangaka. as well as visual novels and what not. Take it how you want, but to compare this site to something that makes tonnes of money (ignoring the murder and other irrelevant bits) on the side, is just stupid. Making enough to host a server full of what you call illegal porn, does not equate to either of those examples given. You can claim they were joke analogies, but they weren't. They were dumb.

Ultramarinus wrote...
Mangakas aren't their staff. Mangakas are more like football players and they can change their companies. Wani doesn't pay a penny for stuff they create if they're not the one publishing it. This would include convention work, doujins and short mangas as I mentioned previously.


Well no shit. That's the point, of course wani isn't going to pay them if they aren't releasing their work. That's how it works. They get money from wani for their work released through wani. The other stuff is just for extra coin on the side/ to get their name out there more.

Ultramarinus wrote...
An amount will trickle to them for their contracted works but that would still be a slim amount. That's okay but the most they would earn would be with no middlemen involved, that'd be their convention work, which is STILL getting pirated by Fakku. And Fakku won't be paying them anything for their hard work. So it goes contrary to what they're saying about 'supporting the authors we love'. The most anyone could ever support a mangaka would be buying their convention stuff, not pirate it!


Yes, that's called royalties. You know who else gets royalties? Bands. And you know what happens to successful bands? They get rich.
The most they would earn would be through wani, unless they somehow sell tonnes of stuff outside, for a lot of money. Of which, I'm sure wani has something in their contract about, to keep them with wani.
I dare say, their convention work (which is usually art commissions and what not) hasn't hit the doujin shores here. Pretty sure it's just for doujins.
Also, you're wrong. To support the authors/ artists, you would buy their published products, so the publishing company keeps them under contract, has more funds to pay them for more work, etc etc. Of course pirating doesn't support them, I don't think anybody has argued that point at all. The simple matter is, buying their work (either way really, but through wani would be the best for their future, no doubt) would support them the most.

Ultramarinus wrote...
You don't need to go out and shout "we'll pirate your stuff but not Wani's because we have a deal with them". Wani's rivals would hear this news before anyone else here, those are businessmen. They'll be waiting to see how the sales go and if it works out. If it does, it'll be stupid of them to not get involved in the same way. Why? Because their stuff will be freely distributed by the same Fakku who sells Wani's stuff!


I don't believe anybody is shouting. An announcement here is shouting over the internet? And how do you suppose wani's rivals (those that aren't already with j-list or the likes) going to find out the news? Through word of mouth? through announcements on a hentai site?
They will probably keep an eye on how the sales go here (of which there isn't any real way to tell. Besides if it sells out, of which how would you know the original stock? Unless it's expressly mentioned, or expressly announced that the sales are booming, how would they know how sales are going?
Again, what makes you think they'd choose this site over something like j-list, or other sites like that, that also boom, and have more traffic?
>Freely distributed
That's not how it works. That's not how this particular transaction has worked, either. There was not much free happening there. Things getting paid for to be sold on, translators getting paid, etc etc.

Ultramarinus wrote...
Jacob didn't initiate this but he sure did turn this into a grand opportunity at the cost of both his pirate rivals and western hentai readers. It's like those American native tribes who made deals with the white man to get rifles and shoot rival tribes. (another analogy, again don't take it seriously) Good for him but don't expect everyone else to be happy, when there are ample reasons not to be. And this whole 'supporting mangakas' ideal is a hypocrisy as long as this site continues to pirate hentai.


I don't believe he turned it into a cost for anybody. The items in question got removed, he saw fit to make them available to us. Who let down/ is making the other hentai sites and western readers not able to read their favourite porn? Wani. Jacob has brought it back, and legally, so wani doesn't have a fit over it, and ask them to remove it.
So, explain to me how exactly it is anything like american native tribes getting guns from white people, and shooting rivals? to go by that analogy, the native american tribe that began with no guns, would have had their land taken from them first, followed by striking a deal with the white men, to be able to keep their land but pay tax. And the other tribes have had their land taken from them, but have no means to pay tax, so they have lost their land. (Obviously, it's not as big as land, but point still carries. It carries much better than yours does at least)
The whole point isn't to keep anybody but wani happy, and having wani's work out for us. If others are mad, they should take it up with wani for removing it, it's nothing to do with jacob.
Also, it is a hypocrisy yes, but guess what? nobody else has wani work. They wanted people to pay for their work, and it's now going to happen. So, they are supporting them, because otherwise, wani wouldn't exist outside of japan, or in english.
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Lughost the Lugoat
EmiyaKiritsugu wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Lughost wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Cinia Pacifica wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Cinia Pacifica wrote...
Drifter995 wrote...
Ultramarinus wrote...
1- Pirated works are the main content and traffic generator, tell me if it isn't and what is.


And do explain how he is making a profit off that? Off people visiting a site?


I believe he's referring to the ad money Jacob apparently makes from the users who views them.


I know, hah.


We all did.

Your avi turned more l00d now.


Avi is always l00d
Was going to go for something with a death stare and boobies in it, but this works too


Is that from that one Pinvise book?


Not actually sure


It is. Well. Rather old.

https://www.fakku.net/doujinshi/when-the-angels-away-english/read#page=21

[size=28][color=#9D0A0A]GRORIOUSH ASSH IS GRORIOUSH.[/color][/h]


I thought that was what it was.



also fair enough long
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Waar FAKKU Moderator
I don't usually lock stuff like this but you're arguing about arguing now; that's my job.
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