Righteous Kill

obviously since it's a hypothetical question it's not a situation you can ninja your way out of. Just answer the question, your life or take the life of someone innocent; a child possibly.

If your not satisfied with my answer too bad. As you yourself stated it's a hypothetical. I can respond in any way I choose. And as far as "ninja my way out". This is based on tecniques I actually know. Whether you want to believe me or not is irrelevant. I know what I know, and no one can change that.

yeah my bad, im sure you could have used your "kung fu" to get yourself out of a HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION... if you didn't feel like actually answering the question asked you should have simply avoided posting; you're acting as useless as Chuu.

Ok if it makes you happy. No I wouldn't kill an innocent to save my own skin. But don't mock me. And I've read a few of Chuu's posts I'm not that useless. And as far as my "kung fu" goes, like I said I know what I know, whether you believe it or not is completely irrelevant. I've used it in not so hypothetical situations and usually manage to come out on top. Maybe try not being such a dick in the future.

yeah I wasn't calling you out based on whether your self defense techniques would work, I was pointing out that the hypothetical situation would not allow a third option (find a way out/fight back). It's a simple A or B question which you've answered; and I tend to agree with you, depending on the situation of course I would most likely take the death over murder.

Ok, Dick remark respectfully withdrawn. I may have taken it a little too personally.

im really not that bad a guy, i just tend to call people out on things i believe are foolishness (happens a lot).

Killing is normal. I mean it helps the world.

There is no such thing as a righteous kill. You may think that what you are doing will better the world, but someone, somewhere will think that you are doing something completely barbaric and immoral.

If you must kill, and labeling it as something that was righteous helps you deal with it then there must be something wrong with what you did.

Unless killing an innocent helps me further my own dreams and aspirations, I wouldn't do it.

no, my friend, u seriously can't say that out loud in public(i tried in my grade school, and got my ass kicked), Killing is NOT normal, if killing was normal, i wouldn't have started this topic in the first place,

and many of you tend to miss my point in the first post,so here's the deal, righteous kill meaning the right to kill in a sense that it would be a correct response to kill, but the idea is to get the boundaries and the created circumstances, under what terrible situations, should u give up the humanity of ur heart and choose to punish those or to protect urself, so basicly, i'm asking for the right reasons to kill, example: someone killed ur whole family, would killing him be the reasonable action to respond? or maybe the idea of killing was wrong in the first place.

under different circumstances, many make different choices, someone will kill if it means be killed at the time, but the same person will probably not kill for a punishment against certain extreme criminals.

I guess you should just state a scenario and ask us what your reaction is, kill or be killed? for example, the most classic case being:

Enemy soldiers have taken over your village and will kill civilians they find. You are hiding in the cellar of a house with a group of townspeople, and you hear the soldiers enter the house. Your baby starts to cry, and the only way to quiet him is to hold your hand over his mouth and, eventually, smother him. But if the baby keeps crying, the soldiers will discover your group and kill everyone, the baby included. What should you do?

I really hope waar sees this. To answer your question, if someone killed my whole family I would most deffinitely be out for blood, and I wouldn't be nice about it. Death would be slow and painful. Now is this the morally correct response, no. But at that point my rage and hatred would completely and utterly consume all shreds of humanity left within me.

exactly, u say it's not labeled as a morally correct response, but would be, when will there be a reason reasonable enough under a scenario that label KILLING as RIGHTEOUS, if all killings were not reasonable enough to be performed, then y kill in the first place? the sudden consumed by rage, wouldn't that be just a reckless response?

and No, i really hope waar Do NOT see this, he's gonna start shit that i can't even comprehend or interpret.

In his defense, he also had a slight misunderstanding of the context of the topic. which was what I was implying. He usually does bring up some pretty good points. As far as rightious killing goes, perhaps if it were to save the lives of others, and (as it usually would) result in your own death. Kind of a self sacrifice thing.

it's ok, batman did the same thing...

i'm not sure how I would react, it's all well and good to speculate but none of us have been put in the position, so in reality I cant say how I would react. I would like to believe I would be able to turn the other cheek but I really can't say.

That's the major flaw in all these philosophical debates, half of them are pure speculation as none of us have experiences anything like these events; most of us have not even had to deal with death (in the family or whatever). Ask me in 20 years, I may have an answer for you.



are you really trying to imply it's my failing that you don't understand my perfectly logical arguments and statements?

Completely off subject but related to Waar's post.

I've had a recent death in my close family not too long ago and so far I haven't shown any signs of emotion. While everyone else is off crying and cursing god for taking her away, I'm here alone... emotionless. This person was very influential in my upbringing too, it wasn't like a distant relative or something like that. The only thing I could do was be strong for my mother and everyone else and try to help them get through it. I feel as though something is wrong with me for not expressing any emotion at all for her and that instead of me trying to be strong for everyone they now see me as some cold-hearted bastard. It's been almost a year now and my mother still mourns almost every day for her.

Dunno why I said that but I don't feel like hitting the delete button and wasting all the time I took writing this. Maybe someone can make some sense out of this.

This reminds me of an episode of Law and Order (I watch that a lot)

Where the egg embryo's I guess they were, were stolen by some corporation people against it - just as a scare tactic. And the incubators had a time limit. Well the plan went out of hand and the incubator wasn't returned right away and all those eggs died, or what not.
Well after a press conference the guilty person felt horrible because he killed the 'lives' he wanted to save. But still felt justified that he was trying to prove a point.

There were many different peoples eggs in there, and one was a women who put her eggs there before she went off to war in Iraq. Just as a safety measure, in case she didn't return her boyfriend/husband would still have something of hers and could still have her baby.
Well just as she was killed in war, her eggs were stolen and died. So the people who took them killed his last chance of having a part of his girlfriend/wife. So he shot him in broad daylight outside the court house.

At first the cops were all omgz a psycho. And when they tracked the person down he was at the airport watching his girlfriend/wifes casket be lowered from the plane with an american flag draped over it, and that's when it was revealed that, the reason he shot the guy was because he ruined his 'life'. The cop just said 'the court will understand' and that's where the episode ended.

Great episode.

By the way if somebody knows what I'm talking about and knows exactly what was in the incubator. Feel free to correct me.

If it helps you I can tell you my sob story real quick.

About 6 years ago my father started getting sick randomly every weekend or so, so almost like clockwork he would be sick every 5-7 days and would need to stay home (his office was at home so he was still able to provide for us). It continued on for about 3 months before it started getting really bad. One night I tried to talk to him and he just wasn't functioning at all; my mom decided to take him to the hospital. A few days later he came back with medicine and it almost seemed like he was on the mend but as some of you may know just when things start to look positive, reality tends to love to slap you down. He started getting sick all over again and had to be hospitalized. He stayed there for weeks on end and there was nothing we could do. My mother wanted to take my father to the Mayo clinic in the states and just pay to have him looked after there but our doctors insisted that he would recover under their care. In the end they never did determine what was wrong until after he had passed away from cancer in his lymph nodes (caused by an infection which they could not find). I have no doubt in my mind that doctors at the Mayo clinic would have found the problem quite fast. All this aside I wasn't really able to cry throughout the entire ordeal, I was even bedside as he passed but still could not shed a tear. I think it was mostly because I kept telling myself I had to be the strong one as no one else was going to be; my mother needed me and so did my siblings. One day, two years later, I was sitting in my car about to leave for school when it suddenly hit me, my father was never going to seem me do the most important things in my life, he would never see me graduate (i was months away at the time), he would never meet my girlfriends or future wife; he would never meet any grandkids I might have some day. I ended up being late and skipping my first class. I still think a lot about him, and i've never really forgotten his face or what he was like... i see things that remind me of him almost every day. I believe he raised me to be strong when times are tough.. I believe he would have been proud of the way I handled things and the of the person I've become; at least i'd like to think so.

In public, people, no matter how staunch they are, are heavily influenced by the way others will perceive the quality of their character. Its not necessarily a matter of how you will be seen, but how you'll survive. Like you said, you got your ass kicked for saying that. However, it doesn't mean its wrong and it doesn't take away from the possibility that anyone, including the people who kicked your ass, could have been in agreement with you and just said nothing. Its natural for humans to say something favorable despite whether they believe it or not. For anyone, self-sufficiency aside, its hard to imagine being able to survive in a society that not only shuns you, but hates you to the point where they'll beat the hell out of you for what you believe.

In regards to the topic of the conversation, I have to disagree with you. I don't just think that killing is normal for humans, it is. Morally, ethically, and blah blah blah, it may seem as if there is something wrong with killing, but that's just bullshit. Living life is about just that, living. Its not about someone else living their lives, its not about how much good you do, and its not about who goes to heaven or hell at the end of the day. Human instinct is to survive. That means that if their well-being is being hindered by another person, that person better step aside or expect the worst. My biggest qualm with religion is not that it restricts mankind's freedom to think for themself, but because in emphasizing the value of human life it is actually sending the opposite message, that life isn't sacred. Saying don't kill because its bad or "turn the other cheek" is tantamount to saying jeopardize your own well-being for the sake of morality. Morality is subjective. There is a branch of philosophy devoted to morals and ethics and after all the time and effort poured into it, we still can't come to a definitive answer as to what is "morally right." If I'm put in a situation where I have to choose between my own life and another's and I see no other choice, I'll have blood on my hands because I want to survive and as far as I can tell its not as if that person wouldn't do the same in my situation.

In your scenario there is more to it than just "will you kill the person or let yourself be killed?" Instead of being happy that you got out of it alive or mourn the fact that you had to kill another, you need to be deciding what to do with the person who put you in this situation. There's no telling whether they're not going to kill you anyway. So what would you do there? Would you wait and see or would you do what you had to do to ensure your survival. You're right back in the kill or be killed situation, only now its not so much a moral issue as it is a matter of uncertainty. This person is depraved and by way of your actions already has blood on their hands. Do you need a second to think whether they should live or die? You may not have a second, you might be dead before you can even collect yourself.