The limit to comedy.

Ahem. Allow me to summarize my position on this rather serious question of, "When is it not ok to tell a joke about something?"

The answer? Never.

I just read a blog about a woman who has been raped giving her side as to why rape jokes shouldn't be said. In essence, "It supports rape, it makes rape less offensive in general, and it's not fucking funny."

Here's the thing. Telling a joke about rape? It's not going to encourage anyone to go out and rape someone. Nobody hears a joke about rape and goes, "Hah! I oughtta do that."

It doesn't happen.

Now, stand up comedy is a hobby of mine so I have a little bit of experience when it comes to comedy. I'm by no means an EXPERT but I think my two cents are worth something. Comedy ranges from the most adorable cutesy physical humor, like Goofy slipping on a banana peel, to the darkest joke ever told by the Joker.

Throughout that range all different kinds of people will find all different types of humor either funny, or not funny. And there's rarely, if ever, a consensus.

What I mean by this is, nobody finds all the same things funny as everybody else. Of course there can also be overlap. For instance, while my dad's sense of humor is a bit curbed compared to mine, causing him to call some movies I like to be 'a little stupid', I still find everything funny that he finds funny.

When I tell a joke about dead babies, it should be noted...not everyone's going to laugh at it. Some of my close friends will, but for the most part people wince and say, "That's a bit much." But regardless of that fact, it's still situational, and subjective. There's no objective rule to comedy stating, "Dead baby jokes are the line, and nobody shall ever say them."

Sure, you can go ahead and TRY to create a limit, but as soon as you do, comedians will SCRAMBLE trying to cross it. Think it's not funny to make fun of religion? Guess what? Buddha's a fatty and Jesus' hand puppet has a hole in the center.

Think it's not funny to tell a rape joke? Well guess what? A woman is being chased by an attacker down an alleyway, only to find it's a dead end. She whines and says, "Oh come on..." to which the attacker grins and replies, "Where?"

Sure, you might not find the jokes funny, but SOMEONE will. And in comedy? That's all that counts. Something doesn't become immediately objectively unfunny because the majority of people find it offensive, or even just unfunny.

In short,m if you don't find a joke funny...then don't laugh at it. Going on and on about why you shouldn't tell the joke anymore because...I dunno, because you feel offended by it or some such nonsense, then that's just...well...being butthurt.

And for those that feel I wouldn't laugh at offensive or ignorant jokes, I found this joke absolutely hilarious, and I accept evolution: "So Charles Darwin wrote a book awhile back and originally wanted to call it 'You're a fuckin monkey mate.' He went through other titles like, 'You're a fuckin monkey, I'm a fuckin monkey, we're all fuckin monkeys, fuck off ya monkey...' And then finally settled on boring old, 'the origin of species' blah blah blah."

Telling a dead baby joke to someone who just had a dead baby is a bit over the line imo. There's no limit to what a joke can be about but there is a time and place where certain jokes are bad.

Yep, this is pretty much it. Nothing else can be said since it is true.

Lundi, I'm finding weird the fact that you are trying to establish your own beliefs as the "right ones", similar to the "if you don't find this race attractive, you are a racist!" which seems a bit too forceful of you. No one's beliefs should be applied and/or forced into others.



Found them, they come from this topic: Racist Hunger Games Fans:

Honestly, Many jokes nowadays are crude, offensive, and terrible n a sense of topic. However, it's more of a judgement about who is receiving the joke and whether or not they would find it funny. As for me, I find all kinds of jokes funny because I have an open sense of humor. However, not all recipients will find the same jokes funny. Although, many offensives jokes retain their roots in satire which is usually to inspire reform, so having offensive material is necessary in humor.

There are also many types of humor, but the ones that I can think of now are Observational, Situational, and Satirical.

Time is the limit to comedy. No one was cracking jokes about 9/11 while it was happening, the same goes for any tragedy. It also depends on the severity of the event or topic. The more severe the event, the longer it'll take for jokes about it to be acceptable to a wide audience. I recall watching a movie in college where a guy said that comedy is tragedy + time, I think there is some truth to that.

Feminist jokes destroys equality for women by allowing for those that partake in them to become desensitized on how this is actually leading to a psychopatriachal society.
Racist jokes, if told to an aryan extremist could provoke action against various groups of minorities.
As such, telling a joke about rape and causing a positive reflection on the joke will cause a would-be rapist to commit rape.
That "nobody" is equivalent to somebody finding a certain joke funny.

If you truly wish for there to be no limit to comedy you should fully take on the role of the target being used in the joke. For example, if you wish to make a rape joke, first get raped and make a comedy on your experience. If you want to make a racist joke, go out to an inner city neighborhood and proceed to observe various racial stereotypes then give your jokes to audiencal screening to those within the neighborhood. If you wish to make a dead baby joke as a male, find a baby and defile its body in various ways then depict to us how you found that hilarious. People who don't truly understand a situation be revoked their right to speak in communities as they are merely blind men groping for fish, that fish bringing reaction to something one would never understand so they suppose it to be something along the lines of amusement.

I know its hard to be a comic without depending on stereotypes, racism, poor taste and shock, but if you think for a moment that making light of anything that is wrong doesn't encourage the atmosphere for such actions to be accepted, you are wrong. You not being sensitive justifies others to not be sensitive. Many Humans are kept in check by socially acceptable norms. That is why there is mass cruelty payed upon each other throughout time. When you create a laugh, its not because its ok, its because you created a turn of a story that was a surprise, a contrast, a play on an idea. Relying on shock value creates an unsure footing for many, allowing for laughter, we don't just laugh because we think something is truly funny, its also a defensive mechanism. This naturally doesn't affect everyone the same way, but it does affect many that already have a negative idea on the subject, it encourages it.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/humor-sapiens/201107/does-racist-humor-promote-racism

"humor is not always positive and fun. We tend to think about humor as something that is innocuous, something that might be good for our health, moods, relationships and so on, but humor also has its dark side, and we should all be aware of it. Sometimes humor can lead to negative and harmful outcomes against others, and we should be conscious of when and how it can happen."

Well, concerning the Racist Hunger Games thing, I stand by what I said there. Racism is when someone makes a preference of one race over another...for any reason, including, "I find black skin to be ugly." You don't have to be saying, "I think black people should be killed" to be considered a racist.

For instance: There's a youtube user named HeyRuka who's a racist.(She even proudly calls herself one) Does she want to kill any of the other races? Nope. She just wants everyone to go to separate countries and continents and stop interbreeding. And she wants them to do it VOLUNTARILY. IS that now not racism because it's all voluntary segregation? No, it still is.

In any case, concerning the idea that I seem to be pushing my ideas as "The right ones" Well...yeah.

If I think I'm right...why...wouldn't I do that? May I ask you a question? Do you think that anyone can be right over someone else? Because if not, I'm at a fundamental disagreement with you on the ethics of discourse, and if SO, then I fail to see why that's even a valid question.

It sounds as if you are stating that as long as one person laughs at a joke, no matter how distasteful, then the joke is therefor acceptable. It is true that many jokes will find disfavor with someone in the audience, but telling jokes about subjects, like rape or dead babies, you are going to find many more people who are going to react badly. Is the chance of making one person laugh worth angering a dozen?

As for the belief that such jokes do not encourage bad behavior - maybe you're right, and maybe you're wrong, but they certainly do nothing to discourage such behavior. A joke about rape will not turn someone into a rapist, but it might help trigger someone who already is one. As for dead baby jokes, the reason you won't hear major comedians telling them, is that most people grow tired of them by the time they finish grade school.

There will always be comics who push the envelope, and seek to shake the boundaries of what is acceptable, and I agree that no subject should be absolutely taboo, but the comedian has to accept the consequences of his/her jokes and show some selective judgment in their joke-telling. Telling a bunch of dead baby jokes inside an abortion clinic is not the best way to endear oneself to an audience.

If you are going to proclaim that it is your right to make reactionary jokes, then you have to admit that anyone who hears your joke has an equal right to complain about its content. No one is going to pass a law banning certain types of jokes, so why worry if someone tells you such a joke should never be told. That's their opinion, and they have as much right to state it, as you did to tell the joke in the first place.

To be a comedian, you must take the responsibility that you are likely to alienate, or anger, someone at some point in your life. The simple truth is that public opinion is what determines a comedians' longevity. The truly offensive comics are usually the first to fade into obscurity, because of too much negative reaction to their material. A comic that doesn't learn how to read their audience, and alter their act accordingly, will find their career to be very short indeed.

Why do black people smell?
So blind people can hate them too



Yes, and what kind of people will find that funny?

Or someone yells "Fire!" in a crowded moviehouse. Quite a number of people find that shit to be funny and if it weren't illegal people would be doing it left and right.

Or people who prank call 911. Utterly hilarious to some people. 911 being what it is, they have to respond to any call... which means prank callers take away valuable resources to people who ARE in need. The person who's actually having a heart attack will now have to wait in line while the prank calls are responded to.

So if I tell a joke about a dead baby, I should have one. If I tell a joke about a religion I had to have been an adherent, and if I tell a joke about rape then I should be raped, and if I tell racial jokes I should tell them to the races they make fun of, in their neighborhood.

Excuse me while I call bullshit.

Now, if someone tells racist jokes as part of a comedy act, they can't be afraid to tell them when that race is in the room. I at least agree with that. But other than that, all of that was nonsense. It is not on me to suffer, in order to turn that suffering into humor. It only must be that suffering merely exist, for me to turn that suffering into humor. What part of me getting raped all of a sudden renders rape jokes more funny? It doesn't. In fact, that kind of rhetoric is just silly. You don't honestly think that me getting raped means I can only then tell rape jokes. In fact that'd be the LAST thing on your mind if I DID get raped and you know it.

It's not like if I tell a rape joke now, which I already did, you decided, "I don't know if that's funny yet or not. I must ask if he got raped, and THEN it'll be funny." no. That thought didn't cross your mind, it doesn't cross anyone's mind. The only purpose to saying, "You can only tell rape jokes if you got raped" is so that I can respond, "But I don't want to get raped." to which you can respond, "Then you can't tell rape jokes." It's just bad rhetoric, because it doesn't address the underlying issue of humor and appropriateness, it's just a flat out assertion that it's never ok to tell rape jokes until you get raped. I'm arguing that THAT is not the case.



I found it funny. Racists will find it funny. People secure in their civilized status might find it funny. Plenty of people will find it funny. What's your point?



I would never take away people's right to be offended. What I deny is people's right NOT to be offended.

Yes, to be a comedian you do have to be kind of smart and understand that there's a time and place and venue and people for certain jokes. All I'm saying is that there is no such thing as an absolute taboo for jokes, and that anyone can tell whatever joke they want. The only negative repercussions SHOULD be that people are offended. Nobody should be lynched for a joke, beat up for a joke, nobody should be run out of town for a joke, nobody should be crucified by newspapers for a joke, nobody should be demonized in the media for telling a joke.

The only thing it's justifiable to react to, when you hear a joke you don't like, is to be offended. That's the MAXIMUM moral allowance one is given. Anything more after that is superfluous and unjustified.

[color=#2e1a6b]Laughter is a means to gain acceptance of something. humor usually has hidden implications behind it. When we laugh at a joke, we accept the implication of it. People like Bill Maher use this tactic to get people to accept is views So, when you tell a joke that has an implication that people dislike/disapprove of, they shouldn't laugh at it. When they laugh at it, they deceive themselves into accepting something they dislike/disapprove of.

I still think you have the right to tell the joke, but the listener can (and sometimes should) dislike it

Mmmmmno.

If I tel la rape joke, and you laugh at it, it's not you accepting Rape as being ok.

Humor is not a way of ACCEPTING views, it's a way of getting OVER bad things. Humor is, essentially, reducing suffering by getting people to be able to laugh about it.

People like Bill Maher and George Carlin didn't get people to accept their views via comedy. They wrote books, did shows, and would use the comedy stage at time to just preach for a few minutes.

You don't...get to tell anyone what they should or should not find funny. That's not your place. What I find funny is my decision, and it's my right to do that, without anyone coming down on me for it.

That's not to say you still can't find the positions distasteful. If a racist, for instance, laughs at a racist joke, do you find the fact that he laughed at the joke bad? Or the fact that they're a racist bad? I think it's the racism you find bad, not the humor about racism.

Unless you know everyone in the room that you're allowing to hear a set joke, don't make one at all.

You could be offending someone who really feels pain from the subject matter.

For example, though I try to take it lightly and don't go up in arms over it, my friends joke about ADD in front of me and that really hurts.
Likening a small personal hurdle to an entire disorder makes so lightly of it without fully understanding it.

As to sexual assault and rape jokes, you can honestly never know who (unless you know everyone intimately) really will feel upset or have painful feelings triggered by such light-taking. The same goes for racial, sexist, religious, other "sensitive" jokes.

There is humor to be found and pointed out in the everyday, beyond mere setup jokes.

Only when there is fact involved, if it's something about beliefs, (besides illegal, violent and really ignorant beliefs that is.) then there is no right answer. If one believes that being an optimistic is better and someone thinks the opposite, no problem there. It can be said about entertainment, food, items etc., but when it comes to simple facts such as "that car is red" and "this movie is a sequel/prequel", then yes, there is a right and wrong.

It's one's own privacy and business why they think otherwise, no one else should be critical of other's personal thoughts.




Laughing at rape jokes is a problem, what about being the one getting raped? Would the jokes be the same? By this logic, I guess Jews should be laughing at Holocaust jokes, Armenians should be laughing at jokes about the Armenian Genocide and Germans should be laughing at the problems the Nazis did.

It is only "acceptable" within circle of friends to joke about some messed up things, even then, one can't really say "HEY EVERYONE LISTEN TO THIS HILARIOUS JOKE!" in public. If one friend gets offended, you can ask why and if they are very conservative about it, let it be, no reason to get both sides in an argument over a joke anyway. However, what I think is a true line of acceptance is, that one lets the joke go and isn't intolerant (much less OVERLY aggressive to the point of threats) about a joke.

But one should also be careful, Holocaust jokes are not allowed obviously, but anyone who's family had an incident with the Holocaust SHOULD NOT be making threats to others about a joke. But others should understand why jokes about such a thing should not be said around that person.

One thing that should truly be, is that tolerance (besides extreme acts) is for a good number of things.

When your neighbor died of cancer and you laugh at it during his funeral, you know that you already broke the limit.

I should be critical of personal thoughts if they're put out into the open forum of discussion(which is what I'm doing here) for one.

For two, I'm of the position that aesthetics is external, not internal. So when someone holds an opinion about food tasting good, they can be right or wrong. For instance, my mother thinks cauliflower tastes good. And, given her particular tastes and desires in texture and sweetness and all other things her mouth is adapted to, she'd be right, and from there can accurately predict what foods she will and will not like. I hate cauliflower, and I'm also right, because of how my own mouth and body responds to certain textures and smells and sweetness, etc. And from there I can accurately predict other foods that I won't like.

As far as your instance, "If someone thinks it's better being optimistic and one thinks it's better to be the opposite, then that's ok." No. That's actually a horrible example, because epistemologists debate about the better attitude all the time. I even made a post arguing with myself as both an optimist and a cynic, explaining the positions in an objective, measurable sense that can be concluded that one is in actuality, BETTER than the other.



You so do not get my point.

I'm not saying that everyone should always laugh at every joke, regardless of how offensive they personally find it. I'm saying nobody has the right to tell anyone else that they're not allowed to tell certain jokes BECAUSE of their offensibility.

So no, rapists don't have to laugh at rape jokes, jews don't have to laugh at the holocaust(though some do) and Armenians don't have to laugh at Armenian genocides etc. etc.

Nobody's compelling anyone to laugh at anything here.



Well they could, it's just not likely the general public will find it funny, unless the person telling the joke is really good at it. Like a stand up comedian. Fuck Patton Oswalt can make tossing a baby into a blender funny. I've seen it, the clever bastard.



Which is what I'm advocating. Go ahead and be offended, but don't tell people they can't tell the jokes.



Yup, pretty much described my position.

You know what man, nobody is truly supportive of your no holds barred attitude towards comedy. The idea of if you get some people to laugh then its alright is not correct morally. So if you are trying to gain some sort of acceptance by people here, you will not find much, because what you are asking is folks to be morally shallow and say its okay to hurt people to get a laugh.
I have been picked on most of my childhood for being a bit different than the norm. Plenty of it was physical but most was verbal. Stupid jokes that served nothing but putting me down and making others laugh to make them feel better for being not that guy. So if you really feel that your jokes are victimless and harmless and those that don't laugh shouldn't be so soft skinned, go to hell.
I can only imagine the hell that minorities or gays face when it comes to such, and I doubt you understand it if you are willing to make such bold arguments.

If you are saying there should be no limit placed on Comedians by any standard of decency or political correctness then you should know there are plenty of Venues out there for such shock comics, but that doesn't make it right and it sure shouldn't open any of the doors that have been closed to such standards of humor.

There is a difference between getting a point across and forcing your point on others.



Yeah, those are just likes and dislikes. No one can argue with those.



Even then, there are people who don't know or care about such things and act the way they are. People's attitudes are hard to change and it can fall down to likes and dislikes, if one likes being an optimist all the time, so be it, if another likes being a pessimist all the time, so be it.



It doesn't matter who says the joke and how, the fact that it is cruel is still there.



There is, tolerance goes both ways. The one making the joke should be tolerant of the other's belief that it is a cruel joke and should not be said in front of many people. There is a time and place for everything.

Not sure what you mean by "forcing" my point. Am I...forcing people to read my posts? Am I knocking on doors and saying, "Hey, read this." and strapping people down to chairs and forcing their eyes open to do it?

How exactly am I 'forcing'?



Yeah, I actually can. Because, theoretically, would it not be true that if you tell me you like X I can accurately predict what else you might like? And thusly, if you disagree, I can point out why you're wrong?



Well what if pessimism leads to negative outcomes? What if optimism leads to negative outcomes? I can make arguments that holding a certain position is unhealthy for you, or inaccurate and argue that there's reason to abandon such positions. It's not "Meh, you gotta just believe whatever you want." No. There are true things, and untrue things. Philosophy does not advocate that any belief is somewhat valid. That's been disbarred since Socrates.



And the fact that it can be found funny is still there. Also, I don't at all feel that a 'joke' can be cruel.



Sure there's a time and place, but being anything further than offended by a joke is unjustified in reaction.