Y'know What's More Interesting?

My standard for a good enough argument varies, but in this case it would be presenting some evidence that isn't mere ad-hominems or hearsay.

Anything from a government-related source would be fine.

However, I have yet to see something to counter any of those claims.

These claims aren't even my own, but I stand here to defend them, which makes me seem like an asshole stealing into the conversation because I believe that if you want to contest something, you should do so properly.

Present sources, show links.

It's only from there that we can have an intelligent debate.

Once we've shown our sources, we can debate why, based on the information we've acquired, we believe our stance is the correct one.

Otherwise, there's no point in having an argument in the first place if the only conclusion is either "you're dumb" or "you're an asshole", both of which are cop-outs.

Though, in this case, I would look up information second, as the person who begins the debate should show their evidence as they do so.

It's his move.

Granted, I would be quite elated if he were to continue.

It's hard to find people who care about taking action on their words, these days.

That and debating with people is one of my favorite hobbies.

I would be nice if he actually presented any argument.

You can be nice? :o

Yes.

I can also make a point without being passive aggressive.

So from the looks of it, I'm not going to get an actual debate, huh?

Regardless of easy to start I make it...

That really is too bad.

You do give more the impression of Mike Tyson spoiling for a fight than an eager debater. And as I noted, doing this in IB does cast a bit of cold water on any sort of thoughtful debate.

Same reason I offered no reply to your self critiquing attempt earlier this year. Even if we knew each other better (we've only just met in my mind) and you had my trust (no knock on you, I don't give my trust out easily)... I don't trust the venue. This is the place of deliberate trolling and mirthful insults.

Amusing to watch, occasionally provokes thoughts I'd like to share... but I know what it says on the tin.

Placement of thread problem solved.

I think the problem with OP's response is that he's getting feedback about the state of Sweden from politicians and mainstream journalists. The very people that can lie, scew or just plain be out of touch with what's really going on in that country. Did the neo nazi terrorist attack happen? Maybe, but how many of those attacks from those types of people occured in contrast to cases of refugees raping citizens? You can't use a case study as evidence against a whole statistic of incidents from another group.

B-BUT THIS IS IB!

Even outside IB or Fakku, you not only won't get a "debate" but even a meaningful thought. It's all I've asked but instead I get spiteful neg reps, claims of being mad and meaningless insults in attempt to go off topic.



There isn't anything inherently wrong with the "venue", despite it having banter and "trolls". If it were just that then OP wouldn't have made a thread to take a stance on a serious issue and you wouldn't have used it gauge another person's thoughts on what makes meaningful debate. If you don't want to speak, you're at fault, not the trolls.

Well, you know, the thread is in serious discussion now, so I will say in all seriousness...

I will never debate you.

Good day.

Nowhere did I ask for a debate or argument from you.

I'm simply stating your hypocrisy on the matter. But by all means, continue to complain about the venue, I'm sure you'll have many reasons why SD is also at fault.

Oh, dreadfully sorry chap, posted while half asleep, lost track of who said what. My flub.

It's all good in the hood.

I don't mind if you don't want to actively argue with anyone, but when asking for feedback or asking a question, it's at least important that you try and listen/communicate with the other person.

It's extremely easy to be dismissive. It's harder to engage and get to know someone.

Fair enough.

Agreed. And if my half asleep, hypoglycemic attempts to be witty while doing so offended, I apologise.

I... don't actually think I can filter... wait. Okay.

My point wasn't so much you couldn't have a good disscussion in a IB thread. It's that I would be second guessing the sincerity of many posts made, because IB is often the land of lols and trolling. It would be an uphill battle. And yes, that's ot me and how I see that board.

... I'm not sure who I was saying I would never debate. Everyone in thread, while strident, strikes me as intelligent. Heck, Freak's obviously a gourmand.

There might have been a more articulate thought there. Given I woke up with 85 pages of 's' in the document I was working on... I think we can safely doubt that.

Don't post drunk or with low blood sugar, kids.

Well, think of debates like contests for supremacy, and you have my primary motivation for finding them entertaining.

Win or lose, the process of systematically deconstructing another's arguments and points is enjoyable to me.

As far as the venue goes, I treat this venue like I treat any other venue.

It's shamefully apparent when I'm making jokes or trolling, and if you can't tell whether I'm trolling or not, 9/10 times, I'm not.

However, I don't troll very often on these forums, that tends to be done in short bursts during depressing times.

Most of the things I say, I actually mean.

If you can't tell whether I'm trolling or being serious, assume the latter.

I know my limits, I'm not capable of trolling that no one is able to sniff out.

So I make it clear when I am most of the time.

As far as insults go, I do sling them but I do not use them to support my points or to attack another's.

Think of them as artistic expression, and an indicator of how I feel about the topic or argument.

Edit: I failed to notice that this was moved to SD, but I was referring to IB in this post.

Huh.

I didn't even notice this thread until now.

Neat.

The thing about what you posted, if it's verifiable, is that it only points to a lot of the underlying fact of there is something very wrong going on in Sweden.

Groups like that only become powerful, become emboldened enough to pull off stunts like that if there is a very real sense of fear in the general population.

In the very least, people in Sweden are become very scared of the immigration issue.

Sure, their politicians and many of their reporters talk about immigration not being an issue. But those same people live in areas where immigration is not an issue, as in there are none.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3022743/sweden-malmo-immigration-nigel-farage-ylva-johansson-rape-statistics-u-turn/

And their politicians have been caught trying to diminish and hide the problems. Their government sponsored website "clears" up misconception about Sweden despite studies that aren't ran by the Government suggesting otherwise.