Fallout 4

Europe am cry, passed out right after it ended (5 am). I feel like I'm gonna suffer during Sony's since this time I'll have work in the morning but anyway...

I herd you didn't like Fallout so we made games in this game so you can play while you play, and minecraft. Also, take that COD, we made our game like yours but with better dogs.

Yea, and I'm sure you thought Skyrim was a near masterpiece. It's a very big deal. I'm not sure you understand how RPGs work, as basically every good and proper RPG has attributes and skills. At the very least they kept attributes, unlike in Skyrim where you were playing a walking sack of clay. So you have attributes. These serve as the limits of your character and what they're capable of as well as defining characteristics. In Fallout, intelligence even influences how the character levels up. Then you have character abilities/skills. They further elaborate on what the character is capable of through various actions and specialize that character for a role, you know, for a fucking role playing game. Bethesda fucked this system with Fallout 3, but Obsidian remedied that by making sure you actually had to specialize by giving fewer skill points per level.

So if this shit is Skyrim again, what we have is a claymation character who never has to specialize in anything. Don't like your perk tree? Reset and redistribute the points in your non-skills. You get to do everything, yay. Perks are meant to be little bonuses based on your character's abilities, not a replacement of your specialization. They fucked the Fallout formula, even though that formula was a bastardization of the original's system. You won't see this bullshit in Obsidian's (which still has people from the original Fallout team) newest game, Pillars of Eternity, because they know how to make RPGs. You show me a great RPG and I'll show you a game with proper skills.

I barely even play AAA videogames these days (pretty much just 3DS and Wii-U these days) and I hate crafting and I hate open world games and yet like I did when they debuted Skyrim I actually got pretty interested in the Fallout 4 stuff and thought maybe I could finally build a desktop and play games again. If nothing else Bethesda knows how to make their stuff look amazing.

I see your point, but you are one grumpy individual. Turn that frown upside down eh? Also, skills aren't everything, gameplay is a big thing as well.

There, now that I'm happy, I'm going to complain some more.



Int is now a useless stat. It's like that gain more experience perk in Fallout 3? Why!? It's fucking useless. Only retards got that perk. Just have patience and kill a few more assholes and level up.



>Recharge rate of critical hits
>Crit on demand



Welp, I didn't think it could be worse, but Bethesda managed it. They killed Fallout. This franchise is now a casualized husk of what it once was, stripped bare of all the mechanics that mattered and designed for the absolute lowest common denominator. If Obsidian ever work on another game Bethesda wants to call "Fallout," I only hope they unfuck as much as they could possibly get away with doing.

*looks at the post above*

...

WHY? I don't get it.

Check this out it.

He talks about shit I already know and then says he's okay with it because opinion and then proceeds to criticize Fallout 3's system, which I already mentioned was shit. He said basically what I did: there are too many skill points, meaning you can get 100 in everything you want. Something that was fixed in New Vegas by the people who know what the fuck they're doing. The system is fucked because, if what he's saying is true, attributes have essentially replaced skills, and are elaborated on by perks with set bonuses, probably the way Skyrim did it. This means attributes are more malleable. That they will significantly shift throughout the playthrough. That's what the goddamn skills are for! The attributes you start with should not be significantly different from those you end with. At least, this is my understanding of Fallout mechanics based on playing the second game and then being witness to the alterations Obsidian made to Bethesda's "interpretation" of Fallout.

Wasteland 2, which is basically modern day ye olde Fallout, did this very well, where your characters got maybe 3 to 4 points tops toward attribute spending in the entire playthrough. What Bethesda's doing is turning Fallout more and more into a generic shooter. This trend of homogeneity in the industry is infuriating.

Somehow that vid actually increased my paranoia for Fallout 4 being boring and dull as hell.

Now i think they will gut mod support so noone could add skills there...

Never going to happen. Like I said, the only thing to worry about is whether we'll have to pay for them.

I guess they try, but get burned again.

Feels nice to hear what a good modern Fallout game sounds like:

Yeeeh.

Traveling the wastelands and drinking nuka cola.

With all of the DLC and proper stat-planning it is 100% possible to get all of your skills to 100 in New Vegas. I know because I've done it.



The series took a big leap when it went from an isometric RPG to "Oblivion with guns", it shouldn't be surprising that people played Fallout 3 and New Vegas differently than the previous games. Both games had issues with people playing them in ways that just plain took the fun out of the game and made things tedious. In FO3 players would reload to pass speech checks, revive a deceased companion or to generate the random encounter of their choice. And like I already said, in NV it was possible to max all skills but required lots of forethought and careful allocation of skill points.

I'm still very hopeful that this game will do things better than the last, and I don't think that the non-appearance of the old skill system is necessarily a sign of the... umm... apocalypse.

Yea, I know about that, the level cap additions of the DLC. Concessions made for the sake of new content.



I couldn't care less about how other people played the game. Them wanting to roleplay a black hole where fun goes to die is their fucking problem. The only thing I care about are the underlying mechanics of the game. And hey, if we're going to talk personal experience, I managed to max all skills save for 1 in F3 with barely any thought at all. So as far as I'm concerned, "lots of forethought" is a significant improvement. To continue on my point at the start of this post, yes, if you truly want to get to level 50, an absolutely absurd number for a Fallout game, then you'd get the skills you want, but for the vast majority of the game you'd be dealing with skill point scarcity if you weren't playing like a prick. You could tell even Obsidian knew that such a level was bullshit because they ran out of ideas for perks and just gave away overpowered nonsense that let you kill things by flexing your eyeballs at them.



I remember playing New Vegas for the first time and applying F3 logic. I basically had to restart my char because I had no idea putting points into intelligence was not worth dealing with deficiencies in my other attributes, considering the requirements for weapons and attribute checks. My favorite improvement was the lack of bobbleheads.

Also, I save scummed Fallout 2. I'd hate to get all philosophical, but have you heard of the "problem of evil?"



Isometric view means I am the lord, thy god, and am both willing and able to reload whenever any one of my companions dies. Fuck the police. Point being that these "player issues" are nothing new.



Listen, even Skyrim had its moments. I'm not disputing that the experience may very well be enjoyable. We already know one thing they're doing better: weapon mods. I'm just basically doing the following for the Fallout series as I know and love it:



As I mentioned in some other post, the Fallout 3 system is a bastardization of the proper game's system, and I know it had to be, as they had to figure out a way to turn the thing into an FPS. Then Obsidian, working with what Bethesda gave them, made tweaks to the system that I found made the FPS experience pretty good. But now we're dealing with a bastardization of a bastardization calling itself Fallout. No thanks. I'll be picking this game up when it's on sale for at least 50% off. This will also give Bethesda enough time to actually make the fucking thing work.

>Buying Bethesda games on day 1
Not even once.

I've been thinking a lot about this whole lack of skills / skills turned into perks thing over the last couple days.

The old system had your skill points ranging from 1-100, and that seems like it's the thing that's got people all in a tizzy over this change. The problem is that this change itself implies to some people that the game is straying from its RPG roots, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

Case in Point: System Shock 2

Anyone who's played System Shock 2 knows that it's undoubtedly an RPG (an RPG that'll scare the crap out of you), and points play a huge role in how your character ends up. Here's the thing though, points don't range from 1-100, they range from 1-6. Then you have the option of obtaining 4 "perks" (or O/S Upgrades as they're known in SS2) throughout the course of the game. The original Deus Ex also had a skill system that ranged from just 1-4.

I'm guessing that before you leave Vault 111 in Fallout 4, you'll probably get a chance to pick some perks that will essentially serve the same purpose as the 1-100 skill point system in the previous Fallout games.

You gotta admit that there wasn't much difference in some of the earlier Fallout games' skills if you had 25 points or 30 points. The Lockpick and Science skills only really changed anything when you hit 25, 50, 75 and 100 points, the in-betweens were really just wasted skill-points that served no purpose until you hit the next milestone.

I don't think that the lack of skill points means that Fallout 4 has been significantly dumbed-down or "Skyrimized", nor does it mean that there won't be as much character specialization/customization.

But not all RPGs are created equal, though they share the same genre label. Some have more mechanical depth than others. Is Deus Ex's progression system on the same level as Skyrim's? I will probably repeat until death that Deus Ex is the best game ever made, but even I can see past my enormous erection and acknowledge that the RPG elements were simplistic. SS2 may be my runner up for best game ever, but I can look at Fallout 2 and see that it has deeper customization and demands a mastery of its progression system (skills went up to 300 and lack of good specialization could ruin a playthrough).

Now, I can't speak for "some people" but what I lament is a game called Fallout straying from its Fallout roots and progressively turning into something barely recognizable.



Another one of Bethesda's fuck ups. Interestingly enough, Skyrim did a decent job with lockpicking. There is no restriction based on your skill level, just a sweet spot that got smaller the more difficult the lock. This spot would gradually grow as your skill increased. I love this system because it's genuinely skill based; player skill, that is. I was opening master locks with no perks in lockpicking and at a novice skill level.



Well, let's see. The previous system unlocked perks based on skills and attributes, so no worries about that mentally taxing labyrinth anymore. Lack of skills has had a retardation effect on attributes, where the best thing Bethesda could think of for Int is more xp. Crits are now on demand for whatever dipshit reason, though it's not directly tied to lack of skills. But wait, there's more. Let's not forget about the ridiculously oversimplified conversation system. God forbid us idiots get more than four dialogue options that aren't condensed into a two word burp. Mass Effect started a trend that fucked up dialogue systems for those of us who want to see precisely what the fuck our character is going to say so we can make informed decisions. At least the Witcher 3 goes out of its way to only sometimes paraphrase the dialogue option while leaving the other shit said intact. My current bitching is limited to the scant information available for F4. I'll be sure to come back here when the game's out for some proper and definitive dick slapping.

Smart:


Dumb:

Well, maybe you can mod the game and put skillz in eh? That way the game can be fun for you again. I got your reasons for shitting on the games lack of skills, but I still don't enjoy the game for those reasons alone. It seems like you just like bitching about something you have no control over, like a person who hates change. I mean the lack of skills does not take away anything from the overall gameplay, they've actually improved it in more ways than one, I could give fuck all if I can't get the small guns skill. Plus, now that skills are gone I can use any type of weapon I want without having to specialize in it. Sure, specializing in a certain type of combat style is cool, but if you want to be able to specialize in 3 or more types, you are shit out of luck.

It goes without saying I'll be modding the goddamn game. All Bethesda games should be played modded. Skyrim was nothing without porn mods. Also, check this shit out. It's like playboy for Skyrim. Search the following keywords: Daness, Arurun, Marin, Evelyne, and Lyenne.



Welcome to the world of vidya critique.



You hate "change," too. Canada makes being greasy illegal and Fakku shuts down. Your life's over.



Jesus fucking christ, Necksucks, you are the definition of casual. Stick to Call of Duty, RPGs aren't for you. No hard feelings, bruh, but I'm going back to talking to Trixie as soon as I get the chance. I just have this irrational need to converse with those who can make cogent points.

Call of duty? Ya, I don't think so.