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cruz737 wrote...
I think valve has looked at the angry responses and will try and change things but they really should have announced their plans for this to then gauge public feedback and concerns.Valve has a long history of not doing this yet still being successful in their endeavors.
See: Steam
Christ fix this problem already Jacob.
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Cruz
Dope Stone Lion
William wrote...
cruz737 wrote...
I think valve has looked at the angry responses and will try and change things but they really should have announced their plans for this to then gauge public feedback and concerns.Valve has a long history of not doing this yet still being successful in their endeavors.
See: Steam
Christ fix this problem already Jacob.
Well for the most part they've addressed most concerns after doing something of this nature. I'm sure Gaben is doing damage control on his subreddit.
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How is this any different from the little "Donate" button on Nexus ?
It's the same idea, but on the Nexus, donating is optional, while now on Steam, it's madnatory in some cases.
I already see this backfiring spectecularly.
It was a hasty, poorly executed idea of Steam, and it shows.
It's the same idea, but on the Nexus, donating is optional, while now on Steam, it's madnatory in some cases.
I already see this backfiring spectecularly.
It was a hasty, poorly executed idea of Steam, and it shows.
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There are all kinds of problems to this.
Now, I'm not against the thought of being able to charge for your created mods, that's up to the modder to do as they wish, but the problem is that there is no safety for the consumer.
You can't get a refund, not really. Any money you put into a mod goes into your "Steam Wallet" when refunded. So Valve keeps your money either way.
You can't test extensively within a 24 hour period if you don't spend most of that time simply testing.
There are no guarantees except the goodwill of the modder to maintain their mods after eventual updates.
There are no guarantees except for the goodwill of the modders to maintain support cross-mods.
There are a bunch of legal aspects, mods using copyrighted material from other sources. (I mean, Disney, for one, is gonna sue; the question is who they sue? Bethesda, Valve or the modder?) mods using custom meshes, models, animations, sounds etcetc that in the end is material that belongs to the creator of said assets.
People stealing mods and uploading them for profit (It'll not always be the easiest thing to prove the original creator.)
There is the issue that while Valve and Beth say that they anticipate this to generate big, awesome mods, the system they've implemented favors small content mods for a cheap price over larger mods for a higher price.
There's the issue that a 25% cut to the modder is a small ass fucking cut, especially with a $400 threshold before you actually start getting paid.
There's the issue that the Steam Workshop is pretty bad.
There's the problem that no one will pay more for a shitty mod than for official DLC. A mod like Falskaar is maybe, maybe, $10-15 worth of content, and that's generous.
And these are just on the top of my head.
Regardless, I'm not against modders being able to profit from their work, but this implementation is not good enough to work.
Incitement to pay, and support modders. An extensive trial period (Preferably indefinite with maybe a promt with a list of mods you have installed but not purchased on startup.)
An easy way to donate, with the ability to choose who the lion-part of the money goes towards (Think humble bundle. This also helps solve the legal issue of taking money from donations.) or something like that. I'm no business strategist, I don't do economics, but even I can see a fuckton of ways in which this system is broken, and viable alternatives to make it better.
Why was this such a fucking hush-hush operation? This could have been done right had they just talked to the community from the get go. I mean, a project like this must have been at the very least a year in the making?
Now, I'm not against the thought of being able to charge for your created mods, that's up to the modder to do as they wish, but the problem is that there is no safety for the consumer.
You can't get a refund, not really. Any money you put into a mod goes into your "Steam Wallet" when refunded. So Valve keeps your money either way.
You can't test extensively within a 24 hour period if you don't spend most of that time simply testing.
There are no guarantees except the goodwill of the modder to maintain their mods after eventual updates.
There are no guarantees except for the goodwill of the modders to maintain support cross-mods.
There are a bunch of legal aspects, mods using copyrighted material from other sources. (I mean, Disney, for one, is gonna sue; the question is who they sue? Bethesda, Valve or the modder?) mods using custom meshes, models, animations, sounds etcetc that in the end is material that belongs to the creator of said assets.
People stealing mods and uploading them for profit (It'll not always be the easiest thing to prove the original creator.)
There is the issue that while Valve and Beth say that they anticipate this to generate big, awesome mods, the system they've implemented favors small content mods for a cheap price over larger mods for a higher price.
There's the issue that a 25% cut to the modder is a small ass fucking cut, especially with a $400 threshold before you actually start getting paid.
There's the issue that the Steam Workshop is pretty bad.
There's the problem that no one will pay more for a shitty mod than for official DLC. A mod like Falskaar is maybe, maybe, $10-15 worth of content, and that's generous.
And these are just on the top of my head.
Regardless, I'm not against modders being able to profit from their work, but this implementation is not good enough to work.
Incitement to pay, and support modders. An extensive trial period (Preferably indefinite with maybe a promt with a list of mods you have installed but not purchased on startup.)
An easy way to donate, with the ability to choose who the lion-part of the money goes towards (Think humble bundle. This also helps solve the legal issue of taking money from donations.) or something like that. I'm no business strategist, I don't do economics, but even I can see a fuckton of ways in which this system is broken, and viable alternatives to make it better.
Why was this such a fucking hush-hush operation? This could have been done right had they just talked to the community from the get go. I mean, a project like this must have been at the very least a year in the making?
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Cruz
Dope Stone Lion
Seems like I was mistaken in my 1st post. Valve takes 75(?) percent of the profits because they get their usual 30% cut(they do this for almost all software), the rest is negotiable between publisher(45% for Bethesda) and the creator.
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Valve are morons but the idea was sound. It had clearly been on people's minds for a while, as demonstrated by the mod community losing its shit the minute Gaben cowered and backtracked. People deserve some reward for hundreds of hours of free labour and being shat on repeatedly by morons who don't know how to use LOOT.
Donations clearly don't work, SkyUI which everyone uses got $500 in four years on a voluntary system. The main stumbling block will always be the publisher/dev, who will demand a stupidly large cut because it's their IP and they believe they have a god given right to any original content using it. They would argue that allowing widespread modding potentially kills any DLC and future games they make in that series, because the previous one will be better supported (it's certainly true that some people way into Skyrim roleplay mods will hold off on the next ES game until the modders move on).
On the other hand, modders basically add free value to the game and keep people playing it, fixing bugs and providing customer support way beyond the usual life cycle. So it's easy to see both sides, albeit that the business side is 'how can we make maximum dollar from our properties'. But that is businesses for you.
Donations clearly don't work, SkyUI which everyone uses got $500 in four years on a voluntary system. The main stumbling block will always be the publisher/dev, who will demand a stupidly large cut because it's their IP and they believe they have a god given right to any original content using it. They would argue that allowing widespread modding potentially kills any DLC and future games they make in that series, because the previous one will be better supported (it's certainly true that some people way into Skyrim roleplay mods will hold off on the next ES game until the modders move on).
On the other hand, modders basically add free value to the game and keep people playing it, fixing bugs and providing customer support way beyond the usual life cycle. So it's easy to see both sides, albeit that the business side is 'how can we make maximum dollar from our properties'. But that is businesses for you.
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Cruz
Dope Stone Lion
Although having some paid mods is good I'm starting to have a change in heart on their being a marketplace for these, especially considering the very gray area mods are in. When you get to charge things that are necessary to get the game running decently you're being very anti-consumer. Both modders and publishers are acting unethical here. Both are expecting you to pay for functionality and stability, which is scummier than any dlc practice. Modders also work with current existing work of others, just not the publishers work. A lot of mods require other mods to function, and more than likely with that small cut they're recieving, modders won't be going out of their work to ask others if it's okay for them to ask others in the community for permission to use their assets or work in fear of them being denied for being greedy or asked for a piece of the pie.
The more I talk to modders the more I see what a clusterfuck this move brought to the modding community. If Bethseda or others worked with those people in the steamwork shop like valve did, and had a bit of quality and quantity control when deciding what gets to be paid content there would have been less of a blowback.
The more I talk to modders the more I see what a clusterfuck this move brought to the modding community. If Bethseda or others worked with those people in the steamwork shop like valve did, and had a bit of quality and quantity control when deciding what gets to be paid content there would have been less of a blowback.