Found Guilty of Murder and a Hate Crime
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I was reading about this on mediaNet while on my break at work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/us/23transgend.html
GREELEY, Colo. — A jury took just two hours Wednesday to find a Colorado man guilty of first-degree murder in the killing of an 18-year-old transgender woman, and determined that the act was a hate crime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/us/23transgend.html
GREELEY, Colo. — A jury took just two hours Wednesday to find a Colorado man guilty of first-degree murder in the killing of an 18-year-old transgender woman, and determined that the act was a hate crime.
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A couple of things jumped out at me while reading the article:
The mother, speaking about the dead person. She says "beautiful baby," not "beautiful boy" or "beautiful girl." Not important at all, but it made me stop for a second and think.
So, he plotted to kill her, and then he did it in a "fit of rage"? Usually, doesn't a "fit of rage" indicate a crime of passion, something that isn't planned out? Plus, he certainly had reason to be angry (though murder is inexcusable), so it's understandable that this would be a crime of passion and not a premeditated murder.
Wow. So "hate crime" is just stuck on there to make him look more like a bad guy. Wonderful. Because killing someone isn't bad enough. They have to make him hate transgender people, too.
Maybe it's because I've seen the South Park episode about hate crimes (which makes a lot of sense), but I think "hate" crimes are bullshit. The guy killed the man/woman, end of story. That's all he should be punished for. If someone murders another person, that's bad enough. That's hateful. Even if the murder occurs during a robbery, it still takes something in the individual to kill someone instead of stealing and not killing someone.
LGBT people may be applauding, because this shows "that crimes targeting L.G.B.T. people will not be tolerated in Colorado," but this isn't a clear win for them. If I was hooking up with a woman online and found out that she was really a man, I would be angry, too, even though I don't hate transgender people. I wouldn't commit murder, but the fact still stands that just about every guy I know would be upset and angry. Some people don't handle anger well; this is no different from a guy catching his wife in bed with another man and killing the other man. It's not hatred for an entire group of people. It's just anger.
Of course, maybe the guy talked about how much he hated gay people to his friends and all that. Maybe he did hate LGBT people. I don't know. But making this a hate crime is just stupid. It's trying to make a point, when the only point that should be made is, "Murder is bad."
"“The one thing he can never take away,” Maria Zapata said of Mr. Andrade, “is the love and memories that me and my children will have of my baby, my beautiful, beautiful baby.”
The mother, speaking about the dead person. She says "beautiful baby," not "beautiful boy" or "beautiful girl." Not important at all, but it made me stop for a second and think.
Throughout the weeklong trial, prosecutors argued that because of a hatred for gay and transgender people, Mr. Andrade had plotted to kill Ms. Zapata after coming to realize that she was born male. They said he had waited in her apartment and ambushed her in a fit of rage when she returned home.
So, he plotted to kill her, and then he did it in a "fit of rage"? Usually, doesn't a "fit of rage" indicate a crime of passion, something that isn't planned out? Plus, he certainly had reason to be angry (though murder is inexcusable), so it's understandable that this would be a crime of passion and not a premeditated murder.
Conviction of a hate crime in Colorado carries a sentence of up to three years on top of the punishment for the underlying offense. Since first-degree murder means life without parole, the hate-crime conviction in this case has no immediate practical effect.
Wow. So "hate crime" is just stuck on there to make him look more like a bad guy. Wonderful. Because killing someone isn't bad enough. They have to make him hate transgender people, too.
Maybe it's because I've seen the South Park episode about hate crimes (which makes a lot of sense), but I think "hate" crimes are bullshit. The guy killed the man/woman, end of story. That's all he should be punished for. If someone murders another person, that's bad enough. That's hateful. Even if the murder occurs during a robbery, it still takes something in the individual to kill someone instead of stealing and not killing someone.
LGBT people may be applauding, because this shows "that crimes targeting L.G.B.T. people will not be tolerated in Colorado," but this isn't a clear win for them. If I was hooking up with a woman online and found out that she was really a man, I would be angry, too, even though I don't hate transgender people. I wouldn't commit murder, but the fact still stands that just about every guy I know would be upset and angry. Some people don't handle anger well; this is no different from a guy catching his wife in bed with another man and killing the other man. It's not hatred for an entire group of people. It's just anger.
Of course, maybe the guy talked about how much he hated gay people to his friends and all that. Maybe he did hate LGBT people. I don't know. But making this a hate crime is just stupid. It's trying to make a point, when the only point that should be made is, "Murder is bad."
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Perhaps it is possible that this was a crime of passion. The victim and the murderer was probally having a relationship since they had met online.
When the murderer discovered hat she/he was born as a man, he had probally confronted her and in the heat of rage killed her. This may be nothing to do with a "hate crime", though the murderer may have a little homophobic nature in him.
On the other hand, the murderer may be a homicidal homophobic maniac who killed an 18 yr old transgender guy for no particular reason other then what he was.
P.S watched too much law and order...
When the murderer discovered hat she/he was born as a man, he had probally confronted her and in the heat of rage killed her. This may be nothing to do with a "hate crime", though the murderer may have a little homophobic nature in him.
On the other hand, the murderer may be a homicidal homophobic maniac who killed an 18 yr old transgender guy for no particular reason other then what he was.
P.S watched too much law and order...
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I would also like to add that in the article on mediaNet it explains once he had realized than Angie was Justin he confronted her(him) about it, became angry and began to punch and kick her(him) then he took a fire extinguisher and beat her(him) over the head. what he did he tried to clean up the crime scene and when herd gurgling noises coming from the victim and rise up he proceeded to beat her(him) again in the head with the fire extinguisher.
While the initial attack was in the heat of passion and anger, and could have ended up being constituted as attempted homicide, but then the fact that he tried to clean up the scene and the second attack, once he found out she(he) was not dead could be constituted as premeditated.
I'l try to see if I can find the one that I read
But in the article that I read he did not refer to Angie(Justin) as he or Sher but as "it".
While the initial attack was in the heat of passion and anger, and could have ended up being constituted as attempted homicide, but then the fact that he tried to clean up the scene and the second attack, once he found out she(he) was not dead could be constituted as premeditated.
I'l try to see if I can find the one that I read
But in the article that I read he did not refer to Angie(Justin) as he or Sher but as "it".
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Tegumi
"im always cute"
ShaggyJebus wrote...
If I was hooking up with a woman online and found out that she was really a man, I would be angry, too, even though I don't hate transgender people. I wouldn't commit murder, but the fact still stands that just about every guy I know would be upset and angry.Is that because the person is still biologically male? Because from what I know, people who identify as transgendered generally outright reject their birth sex. Some of them undergo sexual reassignment surgery, which incidentally costs a lot of money and must be unimaginably painful. After all that, for you to still view this person as irrevocably their birth sex is nothing short of a slap in the face.
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Tegumi wrote...
ShaggyJebus wrote...
If I was hooking up with a woman online and found out that she was really a man, I would be angry, too, even though I don't hate transgender people. I wouldn't commit murder, but the fact still stands that just about every guy I know would be upset and angry.Is that because the person is still biologically male? Because from what I know, people who identify as transgendered generally outright reject their birth sex. Some of them undergo sexual reassignment surgery, which incidentally costs a lot of money and must be unimaginably painful. After all that, for you to still view this person as irrevocably their birth sex is nothing short of a slap in the face.
A person cannot change what they are. Even if a person has a sex change, they were still born their original sex. They can never change that. If I have to accept that a person can get a sex change and go from being a man to a woman, then I have to accept that a person can get surgery and go from being a human to an animal. And I don't accept that. We're not talking about existential terms or metaphors or ideas; we're talking about simple biology. Just because a person changes stuff around, it doesn't make that person different. Or can I paint myself and get some surgery and say that I'm black?
People can do whatever they want; whether I accept it or not doesn't matter. It's not a "slap in the face" because I'm not going to say that they're stupid or believe that they shouldn't have done what they've done. I just won't date them. And that's being practical more than homophobic; I can't have children with a man that's gotten a sex change.
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Tegumi
"im always cute"
ShaggyJebus wrote...
I can't have children with a man that's gotten a sex change.If you'd stated that as the reasoning from the start, I would have understood. Also, if they'd told you their situation from the start and you were still angry with them, that'd just be bigotry.