Our oceans are pretty much getting fucked over
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http://www.smh.com.au/national/ocea...0621-1gdkx.html
Further evidence that the Earth is at the very least becoming a less interesting and viable planet for sustaining life. Not sure if this will spark discussion but this interests me much more than the run of the mill moral topic we have in IB. The issue of fubar'd waters is the biggest issue we as humans are going to have to deal with in the next coming decades.
Like it or not i think the major issue, well the HUGE issue here is overpopulation, not so much population itself but our carbon footprint and waste and the fact of over fishing.
Now what goes up, must come down. Our j-shaped population growth curve shot up so hard that we'll easily overshoot carrying capacity (if we haven't already), and what goes up, must come down with a population crash/dieback, as pictured here:
So what now, what do we do? Well that's up to you folks, what do you think we as humanity need to do?
Their findings include:
If nothing was done a wave of extinctions was ''inevitable''.
Overfishing already has reduced some commercial fish stocks by more than 90 per cent.
A single mass coral bleaching event in 1998 destroyed 16 per cent of all tropical coral reefs.
The main causes of extinctions are overexploitation and loss of habitat, but climate change was an increasing threat.
If nothing was done a wave of extinctions was ''inevitable''.
Overfishing already has reduced some commercial fish stocks by more than 90 per cent.
A single mass coral bleaching event in 1998 destroyed 16 per cent of all tropical coral reefs.
The main causes of extinctions are overexploitation and loss of habitat, but climate change was an increasing threat.
Further evidence that the Earth is at the very least becoming a less interesting and viable planet for sustaining life. Not sure if this will spark discussion but this interests me much more than the run of the mill moral topic we have in IB. The issue of fubar'd waters is the biggest issue we as humans are going to have to deal with in the next coming decades.
Like it or not i think the major issue, well the HUGE issue here is overpopulation, not so much population itself but our carbon footprint and waste and the fact of over fishing.
Now what goes up, must come down. Our j-shaped population growth curve shot up so hard that we'll easily overshoot carrying capacity (if we haven't already), and what goes up, must come down with a population crash/dieback, as pictured here:
So what now, what do we do? Well that's up to you folks, what do you think we as humanity need to do?
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I'm a firm believer in technological innovations solving these issues. I'll panic when scores of people start dying left and right from diseases.
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I think the main problem is that our demand for resources is too high compared to how much nature can output. I hope we can find a way to fix this or at least lessen the blow we have on it
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AvatarEnd wrote...
I'm a firm believer in technological innovations solving these issues. I'll panic when scores of people start dying left and right from diseases.facepalm. You don't know half the truth do you!?
It's people like you that make me wonder if we deserve to decline as a species.
Keirova_47 wrote...
I think the main problem is that our demand for resources is too high compared to how much nature can output. I hope we can find a way to fix this or at least lessen the blow we have on ithttp://deoxy.org/sciwarn.htm
Already been tried, too bad no one ever listens to scientists and we have people like AvatarEnd who are the cold sore of our liberalistic society.
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My hope is that with this ecological disaster of world wide proportions, that humanity will overcome the petty physical differences that have thwarted us thru-out our history, and unite in a new society inwitch personal gain is extinguished, freedom remains a factor in every day life, people strive for the betterment of themselves and others,and technological/cultural advancement are placed before profit.
But yes more importantly our oceans are screwed and we need to take action now in order to prevent the complete collapse of the vast ecosystem spanning 70% of the Earth, i don't want to have to tell my kids that we cant go to the beach because my generation fucked it up.
But yes more importantly our oceans are screwed and we need to take action now in order to prevent the complete collapse of the vast ecosystem spanning 70% of the Earth, i don't want to have to tell my kids that we cant go to the beach because my generation fucked it up.
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45sylph78 wrote...
My hope is that with this ecological disaster of world wide proportions, that humanity will overcome the petty physical differences that have thwarted us thru-out our history, and unite in a new society inwitch personal gain is extinguished, freedom remains a factor in every day life, people strive for the betterment of themselves and others,and technological/cultural advancement are placed before profit. With all of these factors in place humanity can set our sights on a true accomplishment, one that can be summarized most easily by a memorable character from portal 2,"Space, space, Gota go to space, SSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"But yes more importantly our oceans are screwed and we need to take action now in order to prevent the complete collapse of the vast ecosystem spanning 70% of the Earth, i don't want to have to tell my kids that we cant go to the beach because my generation fucked it up.
wow you're really idealistic and your theory of how society should work has already been done and failed, it's called socialism/communism.
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Why dose ranting make me feel like an idiot?
And it's not communism, its sorta... kinda... Fuck it its communism.
And it's not communism, its sorta... kinda... Fuck it its communism.
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AvatarEnd wrote...
I'm a firm believer in technological innovations solving these issues. I'll panic when scores of people start dying left and right from diseases.
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It's difficult to lessen theweight on natural resources, since the ideal of a developed society for the world is the US, and they are the most garbage producing, closed ayes to enviromental destruction inother countries as long as its demand it's satisfied, give a fuck as long I'm ok, society that exists... come on they don't even want to take the political cost that signing the Kyoto protocol will mean...
I don't think that there's a realsolutionon the way, altough researches about farming methods willcertainly help to put back that population crack that you mention, it will only delay it...
I don't think that there's a realsolutionon the way, altough researches about farming methods willcertainly help to put back that population crack that you mention, it will only delay it...
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Some of the things you claim are nearly impossible to measure.
Life is not as fragile as you think.
Neither you nor I can really have a fruitful discussion as we seem to have a rather blind belief in our theories, which is a consequence of my first point.
Life is not as fragile as you think.
Neither you nor I can really have a fruitful discussion as we seem to have a rather blind belief in our theories, which is a consequence of my first point.
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The oceans are fucked thanks to the BP oil spill and all of those environmental terrorist's. Ours ancestors have a prophecy saying that one day the oceans will turn black and i have the feeling that it will come from this. Us as humans have to work for a better tomorrow by taking care of the environment.
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Ummmm if what you say is true then it seems like we can't do anything about it and might as well wait for the "collapse" that you are talking about.
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Just watch this series.
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/toxic/toxic-garbage-island-1-of-3
Ignore the hipster bullshit, just the environmental stuff.
*EDIT* Know what, just skip right to the 3rd ep. The first two are so much hipster bullshit.
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/toxic/toxic-garbage-island-1-of-3
Ignore the hipster bullshit, just the environmental stuff.
*EDIT* Know what, just skip right to the 3rd ep. The first two are so much hipster bullshit.
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this is what the world gets for its messy habits, they waited too long to find a better alternative and now this is what happens, I bet we've got more disasters to come.
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Rather disappointed in fakku.
I thought the majority of users could hold some sort of a clue about things other than morality issues or hypothetical situations.
I thought the majority of users could hold some sort of a clue about things other than morality issues or hypothetical situations.
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Room101
Waifu Collector
For starters, people should stop using oceans as easy-access trash can.
When U.S military uses giant trash islands for target practice, you know something's wrong there.
But I also think the real question is no longer just "what can we do to prevent it", but "can we introduce appropriate measures in time?"
Inertion is universe's strongest force - even if we do magically lower our carbon footprint, we will still feel the effects of over-development and production for a number of years.
And frankly, the view that "technology will solve it" is quite childish. It's not a sim game where world will conveniently sit around and wait for new technology to develop - which *always* takes time. During that time, you can get fucked many times over.
I'm not exactly an expert, but perhaps for starters we need to limit the industrial exploration of the seas - don't allow oil rigs to be freely build around the place, make incentives for companies to dump waste somewhere else, don't mine seafloor for rare earths (or whichever new gold given nation desires).
Of course, an entirely different set of problems arises when you do try to enforce anything - most of the seas exist and "international" waters, which creates problem of who would actually be allowed to enforce rules and regulations on such territory, then you have each territorial waters of several dozens of states, each with it's own set of problems, complaints and the like.
Overfishing has it's set of problems too. For one, most fisherman (most, not all) don't seem to understand that ocean resources are finite and that they *do* have the capacity to catch every single fish. And even if they do, then there's also the huge market demand for seafood. Maybe we should ban the fishing of given fish species for long enough to have them breed out a bit. But then you have a problem of actually enforcing such bans.
Ultimately, I personally think we can't do anything now that'll solve the problem, at least not sufficient to completely avoid some sort of catastrophe.
And perhaps, as much as evil it'll sound, maybe trying to keep all the people on Earth alive and well wasn't such a "good" choice.
Just felt like adding in my two cents. It may not be much, but maybe it'll move some better ideas up ahead.
When U.S military uses giant trash islands for target practice, you know something's wrong there.
But I also think the real question is no longer just "what can we do to prevent it", but "can we introduce appropriate measures in time?"
Inertion is universe's strongest force - even if we do magically lower our carbon footprint, we will still feel the effects of over-development and production for a number of years.
And frankly, the view that "technology will solve it" is quite childish. It's not a sim game where world will conveniently sit around and wait for new technology to develop - which *always* takes time. During that time, you can get fucked many times over.
I'm not exactly an expert, but perhaps for starters we need to limit the industrial exploration of the seas - don't allow oil rigs to be freely build around the place, make incentives for companies to dump waste somewhere else, don't mine seafloor for rare earths (or whichever new gold given nation desires).
Of course, an entirely different set of problems arises when you do try to enforce anything - most of the seas exist and "international" waters, which creates problem of who would actually be allowed to enforce rules and regulations on such territory, then you have each territorial waters of several dozens of states, each with it's own set of problems, complaints and the like.
Overfishing has it's set of problems too. For one, most fisherman (most, not all) don't seem to understand that ocean resources are finite and that they *do* have the capacity to catch every single fish. And even if they do, then there's also the huge market demand for seafood. Maybe we should ban the fishing of given fish species for long enough to have them breed out a bit. But then you have a problem of actually enforcing such bans.
Ultimately, I personally think we can't do anything now that'll solve the problem, at least not sufficient to completely avoid some sort of catastrophe.
And perhaps, as much as evil it'll sound, maybe trying to keep all the people on Earth alive and well wasn't such a "good" choice.
Just felt like adding in my two cents. It may not be much, but maybe it'll move some better ideas up ahead.