religion, oh god... gods!

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Here's my theory...

Religion is the product of man's own egotism. He believes that since he has the capability to expand endlessly and reproduce and dizzying rates that they should have eternal life. Or some kind of extension on the one they currently possess. In an attempt to better society, religions developed and had laws set that had people conform to their will under the pretense of salvation. Over time, these institutions became corrupt and numerous cells broke away. In all this, man has ignored one important thing: No matter what we can do that other organisms can't, we exist for the same reason that they do. We exist for procreation. We are a baby, we grow, we learn how to make babies, we do make babies, and then we die. We decompose. Our personality and existence are lost with the lack of oxygen to the brain. We are animals we live to FUCK. Then we get fucked and we die.
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Geez guys was my post too difficult to quote and respond to?
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MidnightSun wrote...
Geez guys was my post too difficult to quote and respond to?


I agreed with everything. Wasn't really a point for me to quote it and reply if all I'm going to do is say the same thing with fewer words.
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I'd like to state my beliefs by asking all of you a question. If I write a book, right here and now, about an almighty God creating the entire world in 7 days, then give it to you and say; "This is how the universe was created," would you believe me, or lock me up in a closed facility? (assuming you'd never heard of the concept before?)

I don't understand how people can believe in what's written in an old book. To me, it's no different from believing in Tolkien's creation story from Silmarillion. I really, really can't see the difference.

Now, I noticed some of you saying that radical Muslims are "worse" than radical Christians. That is simply untrue, we simply have fewer Christians who are that far out because our society is much more peaceful and has had better conditions to grow.
Don't believe me? Then watch this.
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Waar FAKKU Moderator
holy shit i dont have 4 hours to read what everyone said; I hope you're all cool with my religion: The Temple of the Jedi Order.

Temple of the Jedi Order
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Seph wrote...
I'd like to state my beliefs by asking all of you a question. If I write a book, right here and now, about an almighty God creating the entire world in 7 days, then give it to you and say; "This is how the universe was created," would you believe me, or lock me up in a closed facility? (assuming you'd never heard of the concept before?)

I don't understand how people can believe in what's written in an old book. To me, it's no different from believing in Tolkien's creation story from Silmarillion. I really, really can't see the difference.

Now, I noticed some of you saying that radical Muslims are "worse" than radical Christians. That is simply untrue, we simply have fewer Christians who are that far out because our society is much more peaceful and has had better conditions to grow.
Don't believe me? Then watch this.


Link was removed. Don't get me wrong ALL radical religious people are bad. Like the stream of Christian fundamentalist whole followed the U.S. army into Iraq. The entire world will eventually be enveloped in a holy way again. It will be between Muslims and Christians like the last religious wars though there will be a third player this time, Atheists. I mean Atheists as in the people who are just tired of being threatened for not being one of the above. The people who are tired of the fighting between religions.

I keep some optimism in the idea that Atheist will eventually win and the hatred,prejudice, etc that envelops the world will go away.

Sometimes I hope China takes over the U.S. even though we'd be communists at least then they would enforce Atheism on us. From what I remember if you embrace anything other than Atheism you are not allowed to "advance" very far in society. Only Atheists are allowed to hold Govt offices. Its a hard decision for me. Give up my constitution and my civil rights to put an end to the Christian fanatics and let science lead America into a new age or keep my rights but, eventually lose them to a theocracy and possibly lose my life to being a "non believer".
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For me I could never believe in God or gods, even when I was a kid. When I was a kid I wanted to be a scientist and for that I believed in logic and science. Everyone would tell me God was always their, we just couldn't prove his existence through science. Thats when I became an atheist at the good old age of 12. To me logic, reason, and common sense just disprove Gods existence.
On what you said fiery_penguin
I would gladly give up my rights for my future generations to grow up in something real... Science
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No, I do not believe having my speech heavily moderated and internet access legally monitored is a good compromise for the abolishment of religion. Calm down.
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MidnightSun wrote...
No, I do not believe having my speech heavily moderated and internet access legally monitored is a good compromise for the abolishment of religion. Calm down.


Thats how I feel too but, each day I read about something new threatening a constitutional or civil right. Whether it be the government stepping somewhere it doesn't belong like monitoring phone calls or if its some religious fanatic trying to silence any critic of their religion. Like Scientology, if you openly criticize them they will sue you into the ground. If you say something against Christians their will be an uproar like when you try to use science in the science classrooms.

I just sucks because all options suck ass.
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I already figured that that's what you were referring to but please understand that the country as it stands is not happy with the way things are headed, and so we will not stand for Huckabee's 1st amendment bullshit or McCain's eternal Iraq war. This is why everyone was roaring when Obama said this:

"What you don't deserve is another election that's governed by fear, and innuendo, and division. What you won't hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a wedge and patriotism as a bludgeon - that sees our opponents not as competitors to challenge, but enemies to demonize."

If that doesn't lift your spirits I don't know what will.
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MidnightSun wrote...
I already figured that that's what you were referring to but please understand that the country as it stands is not happy with the way things are headed, and so we will not stand for Huckabee's 1st amendment bullshit or McCain's eternal Iraq war. This is why everyone was roaring when Obama said this:

"What you don't deserve is another election that's governed by fear, and innuendo, and division. What you won't hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a wedge and patriotism as a bludgeon - that sees our opponents not as competitors to challenge, but enemies to demonize."

If that doesn't lift your spirits I don't know what will.


If Obama takes the presidency we might as well burn the constitution. The man is a charismatic socialist who can use pretty words and divisive tactics. He wants socialized health care! Now how do you propose he'll pay for said health care? By Cutting government spending? Ha! He'll just raise taxes and like every other idiotic democratic politician he'll just propose more spending and hand out programs that will suck up even more money. Heres a few reasons why I DON'T want Obama
Spoiler:
# He has no significant economic, military, diplomatic or foreign policy experience.
# He has no significant executive or business experience.
# He has no proven leadership ability.
# He has claimed a hate mongering, racist, anti-American pastor as spiritual adviser for 20 years.
# He has been revealed to be arrogant, condescending and elitist toward middle and lower income Americans who are the very people whose cause he professes to champion.
# He claims to be a uniter even as he aggressively uses divisive, socialist economic class warfare tactics.
# He has associated with extremist radicals and shady characters for decades.
# He believes the solution to every problem is a government handout or program paid for by unAmerican soak the "rich" tax increases.
# He believes taxes should be raised on the 25% of Americans who are already paying 86% of Federal income taxes to give a tax cut to the 75% of Americans who are only paying 14% of federal income taxes. This is socialist wealth redistribution.
# He believes that income taxes should be raised on the top 25% of wage earners who are already paying 86% of federal personal income taxes to pay for 1. Handouts, health care and education for the poor, 2. tax cuts for the "overburdened" middle class, 3. carbon taxes to fix a global warming problem that does not exist, 4. handouts to the NEA, unions and trial lawyers for their political support, 5. more useless ethanol subsidies to farmers for their support, 6. giving citizenship and full food stamps, Medicare, health care and social security benefits to 15 million illegal aliens in exchange for their long term voting support, 7. fixing the Medicare/social security financial debacle, 8.) dubious "clean" energy initiatives that have no hope of materially reducing the 21 million barrels of oil America consumes every day, and 9. balancing the Federal budget. All of this is financially impossible and would destroy the economy, but he promises it anyway.
# He believes going into Iraq was a "massive" strategic blunder but he thinks abandoning Iraq to control by America's worst enemies and thereby triggering a huge oil price spike that would devastate the global economy is a brilliant strategy.
# He claims he can save America $125 billion per year by leaving Iraq even though leaving Iraq will cause America's annual oil costs to rise by many multiples of $125 billion.
# He believes massive tax increases, higher social spending, a massive and costly new health care entitlement and abandoning Iraq to chaos will spark economic growth when every credible economic theory indicates each of these measures would damage the economy.
# He believes it is a good idea to create a massive and costly new health care entitlement just as millions of baby boomers are retiring and placing ever increasing financial strains of Medicare and social security.
# He offers no credible economic growth agenda, but he does offer destructive, socialist tax and spend and isolationist programs to individual voter groups for their support with no regard for the very negative effects on the economy.
# He claims the 2003 Bush tax cuts should end in 2010 because they were an unfair tax break for the "rich" even though the bottom 75% of wage earners saw their share of Federal taxes drop from 16% to 14% between 2000 and 2005 while the top 25% saw their's increase from 84% to 86%.
# He claims the 2003 Bush tax cuts are the cause of high federal deficits even though federal income tax receipts increased by 51% from 2003 to 2006 while the federal deficit fell from $378 billion in 2003 to $168 billion in 2007.
# He blames the Republicans for the mortgage crisis even though there was no mortgage crisis in January 2007 when the Democrats took control of Congress.
# He blames Republicans for the economic slowdown even though the USA economy was booming (5% annualized GDP growth rate in 3Q2007) until 8 months after the Democrats took control of Congress and began demanding higher taxes, higher government spending & an idiotic retreat from Iraq that sparked a $55 per barrel increase in the price of oil that is costing Americans over $350 billion more per year.
# He blames Iraq costs for the economic slowdown even though Iraq is costing 75% of Americans less than $5 per person per month and Iraq costs have had a much smaller negative economic effect than Obama's policies on Iraq and taxes and federal spending.
# He believes it is a bad idea to continue to spend the $5 per person per month that 75% of Americans are investing in Iraq to deter huge further oil price increases that would wreck the economy and their financial well being while ideally positioning Al Qaeda and Iran to threaten the USA more aggressively.
# He supports energy independence based on unproven "clean" energy technologies that have limited potential, but he opposes huge incentives for new nuclear and clean coal power plants construction that represent the only realistic means to cost effectively reduce oil consumption.
# He rages against the economic and social injustices of America even as he personally benefits from living the American dream.
# He has abstained or avoided votes on tough issues throughout his political career to maintain his political viability.
# He has twice voted not to fund America's troops in Iraq to serve his political money masters at MoveOn.org.
# He talks the talk of uniting America even though he is an extremist liberal who has never walked the walk of achieving bipartisan consensus on anything.
# He relentlessly panders to workers on NAFTA in public even as he demeans their viewpoint in private.
# He believes tyrants and terrorists are worthy negotiation partners that would not threaten American interests if the USA abandons the Middle East.
# He believes it is okay to leave Iraq to control by Al Qaeda and Iran where they would be ideally positioned to intimidate, undermine, threaten and possibly achieve their goals of ousting the "apostate" Saudi regime who happens to control the only excess oil supply on earth.
# Just to further his personal political ambitions, he would recklessly risk America's national security and the financial well being of all Americans by abandoning Iraq to chaos as a political pay off to his big time money donors at MoveOn.org.


Wow, this motherfucker is really inspirational. Like I said if he wins we might as well burn the constitution.


If a candidate won't

#Lower taxes
#Shrink the governments size
#Shrink the govt involvement in my day to day life
#Get the govt out of my wallet
#Give me privacy (I.e. anonymity on the internet,prevent monitoring without consent of the monitored)
#Place different judges of the supreme court since the current ones apparently, can't read the English on the Bill of Rights. (Trampling the First and Second Amendment rights of the U.S. citizens)
#Remove the majority of the regulations on our markets and let us actually go back to a "Free market" economy like we used to be.
#Pay off the trade and spending deficits that the government has ignored for so long (thus raising the $'s vaule worldwide and drive down the cost of all globally traded products)
#Remove religion from public areas while still preserving the peoples right to worship as they please.
#Removing the "porkbelly" projects and earmarks that our senators LOVE to throw our money out to (Google Bridge to Nowhere)

If they don't believe in these platforms then they don't have the America people's interests in mind. The sad thing is only one candidate has even a couple of these as his platform. That guy is Bob Barr and here is his platform copied directly from the libertarian website

Spoiler:
* Government spending at all levels is out of control. Most Americans understand the problem of “earmarks,” commonly used by pork-minded congressmen to buy votes. But while earmarks are an outrageous abuse of the taxpayer’s money, they account for a very small percentage of federal spending. Over the past decade, total government spending (state, local and federal) has increased from $2.9 trillion to an astonishing $5.1 trillion in 2008. The $3.1 trillion federal budget submitted by President Bush for next year was greater than the combined 1998 spending of the federal government, all 50 states and over 87,000 local governments.
* The federal government must take the lead in making significant cuts in spending. Focusing on earmarks risks distracting attention from the broader problem of a government wildly wasting the money of hard-working Americans. Tens of billions of dollars in corporate welfare — essentially aid to dependent corporations — should be eliminated. Largesse for middle- and upper-income Americans, particularly so-called “entitlement” programs, must be cut. Billions in so-called defense spending, which protects America’s populous, prosperous allies rather than Americans, must be eliminated.
* Cutting spending would allow America to implement real tax reform. Our goal should be to reduce both the tax burden on Americans and the intrusion in their lives resulting from IRS enforcement of the income tax. One of the best approaches would be to adopt some form of a consumption tax, like a national sales tax, replacing the Internal Revenue Service and all federal income taxes as well as payroll taxes.
* It is not enough to eliminate the income tax. We also must repeal the 16th amendment, which authorizes Congress to levy an income tax. Without doing so, there would be an ever-present danger that a future Congress would attempt to bring back the income tax on top of the Fair Tax or any other alternative to the income tax.

* The United States was created for the purpose of securing the liberties of its people. The colonists fled oppressive old world governments. The nation’s founders drafted the Constitution to sharply limit the federal government’s powers. The horrors perpetrated by the many collectivist tyrannies of the 20th Century demonstrate that the danger of government, any government, violating individual liberty is greater today than when America was founded.
* Unfortunately, in recent years government at all levels has shown growing disrespect for the Constitution, particularly the Fourth Amendment that protects citizens from unlawful searches and seizures. The sustained government attack on the sanctity of the rights of the individual, including their right to be secure in their privacy and property, has created a moral and Constitutional crisis. America’s elected officials at all levels must renew their respect for the law and work to protect the rights of individuals.
* The place to start is restoring the writ of Habeas Corpus, which protects against unlawful detention, and thus stands at the core of individual liberty. Article 1 of the Constitution provides that this right shall not be suspended without clear and necessary cause, such as during an invasion. In passing the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Congress, pushed by President George W. Bush, effectively ended this protection within America. The Constitutional protections of Habeas Corpus should not be sacrificed so easily.
* Finally, an increasingly intrusive Nanny State is watching over our nation, meddling in the lives of its citizens. New measures, often rushed through legislatures and regulatory agencies with little consideration or thought, seek to control ever more aspects of people's lives. Government limits individual actions and choices, from the way in which we educate our children to the food that we eat, from the type of light bulbs that illuminate our living rooms to the benefits that we receive for working. It is time to again trust individuals to make their own decisions. At the core of libertarianism is a trust in and respect for the personal choices of every individual. All Americans should be free to decide what is best for themselves and their families. At the same time, they must bear personal responsibility for the consequences of the decisions that they make, whether those decisions prove to be good or bad.

* The current platform of the Libertarian Party paints a bright and accurate picture regarding the issue of immigration: "Our borders are currently neither open, closed, nor secure. This situation restricts the labor pool, encouraging employers to hire undocumented workers, while leaving those workers neither subject to nor protected by the law. A completely open border allows foreign criminals, carriers of communicable diseases, terrorists and other potential threats to enter the country unchecked. Pandering politicians guarantee access to public services for undocumented aliens, to the detriment of those who would enter to work productively, and increasing the burden on taxpayers."
* Resolving this issue will be a challenge for America as it means that we must be aggressive in securing our borders while at the same time, vigilantly fighting the nanny state that seeks to coddle even those capable of providing for their own personal prosperity.
* Until all governments are willing to take a unified front to confront this problem, it is the duty of the federal government to secure our borders from criminals, terrorists and those seeking to take advantage of the American taxpayer.

* For far too long and at the cost of American blood and treasure, our great military has been too willingly and quickly used for purposes other than national defense. Our fighting men and women deserve better and the integrity of our nation must be restored.
* Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation.
* The proper use of force is clear. If attacked, the aggressor will experience firsthand the skillful wrath of the American fighting man. However, invading or initiating force against another nation based upon perceived threats and speculative intelligence is simply un-American. We are better than the policy of pre-emptive warfare.
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As much as I would like to go into why you are wrong, I will simply leave you to your own devices as this is going to be going way off topic and I feel reasoning with such obtusion is an ultimate waste of time. Sorry, this isn't as much of a cop out as you would probably love to believe.
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MidnightSun wrote...
As much as I would like to go into why you are wrong, I will simply leave you to your own devices as this is going to be going way off topic and I feel reasoning with such obtusion is an ultimate waste of time. Sorry, this isn't as much of a cop out as you would probably love to believe.


No offense but, its spelled obtrusion but, if your going to use a word to sound intelligent make sure you know how to spell it first. Anyways, it was provoked since you quoted Obama as if somehow a man like him will suddenly break from the trends of his party. He's no John McCain or anything and Obama's senatorial track record speaks for itself. He'll continue the trends of the democratic party. Now, democrats pushing for more hand out programs and more governmental control (Social Security, Universal Health care, Gun control, restrictions on freedom of speech,Etc) then the Republicans pushing for more God in government (fighting gay marriage, banning of abortions). The people like me just get screwed in the end since we want our freedoms like the founding fathers gave us but, we get drowned out by the throngs of morons who just blindly follow the trash spewing out of the mouths of politicians.

This all just ties into with current trends in politics you'll lose your freedoms to either some religious nut job (republican) or some socialist prick (democrat) not to say that the current two candidates are that way. Its just the overall aspects of their parties.
I'm sure you and I could agree that politicians just suck in general.
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Back to the topic of religion, the only argument to the existence of God that I even thought twice about was the one in Futurama. FUTU-FUCKING-RAMA! Saying that God was a freak accident involving a celestial body and a satellite and that the reason we have no definite proof of God is because "If you do things right, people won't know you're doing anything at all."
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
No offense but, its spelled obtrusion but, if your going to use a word to sound intelligent make sure you know how to spell it first.
http://www.answers.com/obtusion&r=67

Do not ever attempt to correct me again. You are going to make me rage.
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MidnightSun wrote...
Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
No offense but, its spelled obtrusion but, if your going to use a word to sound intelligent make sure you know how to spell it first.
http://www.answers.com/obtusion&r=67

Do not ever attempt to correct me again. You are going to make me rage.


Wow, a threat on the internet that'll really get your point across. Anyways, Mozilla Firefox has a spell check function that always runs (to catch my simple typing mistakes) obtusion wasn't in the vocabulary so it marked it as a misspelling so I just assumed you meant obtrusion instead. I apologize as they similar in their spellings and both fit in the context of your sentence. Though I must admit that obtusion fits less than the other option.

On topic: I'm just glad the religious people haven't adopted the motto of "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence". If someone used that excuse on me in a debate I probably would pound my head against the wall as its a very childish way of arguing similar to proving if a child's imaginary friend doesn't exist.
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No, it fits quite well in this case because of the sheer lack of sense your viewpoints regarding our current senators make.

Maybe you were so caught up in trying to reinforce where you stood that you failed to realize not just the fact that religion has always been the focal point of conversatives, but that you said so many different things at once that you wound up contradicting yourself in the process.

Also, me stating that you are going to get me pissed isn't so much a threat to you as it is a matter of fact - because me getting pissed isn't going to enable me to punch anyone in the face over standard TCP/IP. Think of that as just another way of saying that it's like I'm a car mechanic being told by a kid who's never lifted the hood of a car in its entire liftime that I'm doing my job wrong. I think that's the nicest possible analogy I could use without being outright crass. Just the fact that you had to use a spellchecker in an attempt to correct me is even more insulting.

I'm really trying.
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MidnightSun wrote...
No, it fits quite well in this case because of the sheer lack of sense your viewpoints regarding our current senators make.

Maybe you were so caught up in trying to reinforce where you stood that you failed to realize not just the fact that religion has always been the focal point of conversatives, but that you said so many different things at once that you wound up contradicting yourself in the process.

Also, me stating that you are going to get me pissed isn't so much a threat to you as it is a matter of fact - because me getting pissed isn't going to enable me to punch anyone in the face over standard TCP/IP. Think of that as just another way of saying that it's like I'm a car mechanic being told by a kid who's never lifted the hood of a car in its entire liftime that I'm doing my job wrong. I think that's the nicest possible analogy I could use without being outright crass. Just the fact that you had to use a spellchecker in an attempt to correct me is even more insulting.

I'm really trying.


I don't use a spell checker actively its there as a safety net. I make common typos and it there to say "Hey, you misspelled" such as I commonly type liek instead of like or jsut instead of just. I make those kind of errors since my fingers sometimes can't keep with with my brain running at 10,000 mph.

Though I would like to know where I contradicted myself. I'm hardly a conservative and I pointed out that both Republicans and Democrats trample freedoms so it leaves me in a situation of "Theocracy or Communism who is going to win". While I debate if its actually worth the trade since we are going to lose those rights anyways no matter which side wins. At least China is embracing a very interesting blend of communism and capitalism and mandates Atheism.

I can understand and relate to the analogy as well. I basically live and breath politics. I even wanted to be a politician but, decided it wasn't for me since I have something that prevents me from ever succeeding in that realm of the world, I have a need to be honest and honest men don't last in Washington.

Edit: In all honesty I've pegged you as another mindless Obama supporter. I would love for you to prove me wrong on that and I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. I want you to prove me wrong with facts rather than just dismissing me without stating anything to the contrary. After Obama said he was throwing his name into the presidential race I looked at his senatorial voting record and starting digging towards his policies. Everything I came up with just shows me that he's a typical democrat except he's charismatic and black which makes most people (blacks and a few other sects of the population) vote for him blindly because of his skin color instead of his policies.
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Waar FAKKU Moderator
HOLY SHIT YOU TWO NEED TO FUCK AND GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY!
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Waar wrote...
HOLY SHIT YOU TWO NEED TO FUCK AND GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY!
Answer these two questions:

1) Who said more?
2) Did you actually bother to read what he said in entirety? I bet you did not.

I've washed my hands of this since last night.