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Issue with comments
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Hi all, I have a little gripe about the site so hear me out and understand its not a personal attack in any way.
I have a real problem with the incredibly sexist attitudes to women and the gaping double-standards of what is considered 'promiscuous' that pervades the comments section nearly every time there is content in a manga that covers the issue.
I'm generally under the idea that ideas I oppose should be discussed and are allowed to be said, but this is the first thing people see when they look at any new manga on here, and there are honestly extremely distressing and off-putting attitudes on display. I would assume that Jacob and everyone else at Fakku are entirely against these values, and there have been many times you are clearly in support of women cosplayers and fans.
I was under the general impression that the internet was getting better with these things, and it's evident there are women out there who enjoy Fakku. It is those that I have in mind when I say that it might be worth thinking about what kind of environment you're representing when you have these kinds of opinions right next to the main content of this site.
Of course open dialogue, so if you think I don't have a point and have a good reason, let me know.
I have a real problem with the incredibly sexist attitudes to women and the gaping double-standards of what is considered 'promiscuous' that pervades the comments section nearly every time there is content in a manga that covers the issue.
I'm generally under the idea that ideas I oppose should be discussed and are allowed to be said, but this is the first thing people see when they look at any new manga on here, and there are honestly extremely distressing and off-putting attitudes on display. I would assume that Jacob and everyone else at Fakku are entirely against these values, and there have been many times you are clearly in support of women cosplayers and fans.
I was under the general impression that the internet was getting better with these things, and it's evident there are women out there who enjoy Fakku. It is those that I have in mind when I say that it might be worth thinking about what kind of environment you're representing when you have these kinds of opinions right next to the main content of this site.
Of course open dialogue, so if you think I don't have a point and have a good reason, let me know.
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They are jokes, do you honestly think 97% of those comments are even remotely serious? No, they are not.
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DVSN wrote...
They are jokes, do you honestly think 97% of those comments are even remotely serious? No, they are not.If you seriously believe that there is a huge level of sarcasm in these things, then I would suggest you read them again. There are some really ugly views on display here, and very little to back up that they aren't being serious. I'm welcome to be proved wrong, though.
Grenouille88 wrote...
About what people are like on the internet, obviously.No, I'm not naive in that regard (not that obvious to guess what you meant), it's gotten better over the last 12 years though, but that is down to chiefly having a look at exactly what attitudes are on display and being honest about what you really don't want to show off.
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Lughost
the Lugoat
chromaticdad wrote...
DVSN wrote...
They are jokes, do you honestly think 97% of those comments are even remotely serious? No, they are not.If you seriously believe that there is a huge level of sarcasm in these things, then I would suggest you read them again. There are some really ugly views on display here, and very little to back up that they aren't being serious.
You are so ignorant to the internet, I feel kinda bad for you. The thing about being online is that EVERYONE is granted a level of anonymity. This lets anybody say or do anything they want, whether it's in line with how they normally act or not. Many get emboldened by this new allowance and say things that they would not in real life. Such is the case with many of the comments.
In the future please learn a bit about what you think you're making claims about.
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I'm saying I'm fine with controversial responses with an anonymous. There is no reason why these things can't be discussed on a forum.
But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
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Lughost
the Lugoat
chromaticdad wrote...
I'm saying I'm fine with controversial responses with an anonymous. There is no reason why these things can't be discussed on a forum. But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
Take a look at where you're at. A hentai website. "The largest English-speaking hentai website."
How many users do you know in real life? How many aside from Jacob and Mike do you think are all that recognizable at cons? Now take that number and stack it against the total number of users. A user on the forums can be anybody that they want to be. A user here can be as anonymous as they want.
ALSO:
It's hentai. You don't masturbate to it based on the faceless, nameless dudes do you? No. You do it for the women with large/small breasts (whichever is your preference) that are generally more attractive than the average real-life female. Hentai- and pornography in general- is so anti-woman that trying to base an argument around anti-woman sentiments on a hentai forum is both moot and hypocritical.
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Grenouille88 wrote...
chromaticdad wrote...
I'm saying I'm fine with controversial responses with an anonymous. There is no reason why these things can't be discussed on a forum. But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
Take a look at where you're at. A hentai website. "The largest English-speaking hentai website."
How many users do you know in real life? How many aside from Jacob and Mike do you think are all that recognizable at cons? Now take that number and stack it against the total number of users. A user on the forums can be anybody that they want to be. A user here can be as anonymous as they want.
I'm afraid I fail to see the point, you may have to reiterate for me.
None of this is an issue about the forums, but the comments which display a culture of anti-women sentiment next to any new release posted which may be contentious. It's no secret the hentai is a boy's club, but if a woman is even slightly interested, clicks something and finds something right next to the content that suggests that she is not welcome to enjoy or empathise as a woman or else be branded as a slut or whore, then I think that's a damn shame.
Grenouille88 wrote...
ALSO:
It's hentai. You don't masturbate to it based on the faceless, nameless dudes do you? No. You do it for the women with large/small breasts (whichever is your preference) that are generally more attractive than the average real-life female. Hentai- and pornography in general- is so anti-woman that trying to base an argument around anti-woman sentiments on a hentai forum is both moot and hypocritical.
You do have a good point here, but I am aware of women users on this board, as well as women artists, so I wouldn't say it is moot nor hypocritical. You are going to get a broad range of tastes, and a broad range of styles, including those that are female-friendly.
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Lughost
the Lugoat
chromaticdad wrote...
Grenouille88 wrote...
chromaticdad wrote...
I'm saying I'm fine with controversial responses with an anonymous. There is no reason why these things can't be discussed on a forum. But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
Take a look at where you're at. A hentai website. "The largest English-speaking hentai website."
How many users do you know in real life? How many aside from Jacob and Mike do you think are all that recognizable at cons? Now take that number and stack it against the total number of users. A user on the forums can be anybody that they want to be. A user here can be as anonymous as they want.
I'm afraid I fail to see the point, you may have to reiterate for me.
None of this is an issue about the forums, but the comments which display a culture of anti-women sentiment next to any new release posted. It's no secret the hentai is a boy's club, but if a woman is even slightly interested, clicks something and finds something right next to the content that suggests that she is not welcome to enjoy or empathise as a woman or else be branded as a slut or whore, then I think that's a damn shame.
The comments come from people who have made accounts in the forum. The same principles still apply.
Most everybody will already expect the double standard/sexism that is present. When most users click on the upload they don't read the comments. Did they come here for comments? No. They came to masturbate to pornographic Japanese cartoons. Do you really think that seeing a sexist comment on a porn comic will really deter people? If you do then I consider you to be naive.
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Grenouille88 wrote...
chromaticdad wrote...
Grenouille88 wrote...
chromaticdad wrote...
I'm saying I'm fine with controversial responses with an anonymous. There is no reason why these things can't be discussed on a forum. But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
Take a look at where you're at. A hentai website. "The largest English-speaking hentai website."
How many users do you know in real life? How many aside from Jacob and Mike do you think are all that recognizable at cons? Now take that number and stack it against the total number of users. A user on the forums can be anybody that they want to be. A user here can be as anonymous as they want.
I'm afraid I fail to see the point, you may have to reiterate for me.
None of this is an issue about the forums, but the comments which display a culture of anti-women sentiment next to any new release posted. It's no secret the hentai is a boy's club, but if a woman is even slightly interested, clicks something and finds something right next to the content that suggests that she is not welcome to enjoy or empathise as a woman or else be branded as a slut or whore, then I think that's a damn shame.
The comments come from people who have made accounts in the forum. The same principles still apply.
Most everybody will already expect the double standard/sexism that is present. When most users click on the upload they don't read the comments. Did they come here for comments? No. They came to masturbate to pornographic Japanese cartoons. Do you really think that seeing a sexist comment on a porn comic will really deter people? If you do then I consider you to be naive.
Honestly I do think sexist comments deter people, I hear cosplayers have to deal with it a lot
It's easy to brand porn sites as this, but I would surmise that the very fact that even pornography is starting to change their ideas. You have 'ordinary' sites like PornHub having a 'Female-Friendly' section, and a celebration and fundraiser of Breast Cancer Awareness Month. I assumed Fakku may actually embrace these ideals they're trying, and as such I thought it might have been worth a discussion, that's all.
And I think that for one person who is at least trying to get a dialogue going, there are going to be multiple women who have re-enforced attitudes that it really is just for misogynist nerds and nobody really is any the better for it.
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Lughost
the Lugoat
chromaticdad wrote...
Grenouille88 wrote...
chromaticdad wrote...
Grenouille88 wrote...
chromaticdad wrote...
I'm saying I'm fine with controversial responses with an anonymous. There is no reason why these things can't be discussed on a forum. But Fakku doesn't base its presence on anonymity, in the same way as a *chan board might; It's more complicated than that. As it has both a convention presence and has featured women artists in the past, putting people's idiotic anti-women double-standards next to the principal content can be seen as a very jarring conflict of views.
Take a look at where you're at. A hentai website. "The largest English-speaking hentai website."
How many users do you know in real life? How many aside from Jacob and Mike do you think are all that recognizable at cons? Now take that number and stack it against the total number of users. A user on the forums can be anybody that they want to be. A user here can be as anonymous as they want.
I'm afraid I fail to see the point, you may have to reiterate for me.
None of this is an issue about the forums, but the comments which display a culture of anti-women sentiment next to any new release posted. It's no secret the hentai is a boy's club, but if a woman is even slightly interested, clicks something and finds something right next to the content that suggests that she is not welcome to enjoy or empathise as a woman or else be branded as a slut or whore, then I think that's a damn shame.
The comments come from people who have made accounts in the forum. The same principles still apply.
Most everybody will already expect the double standard/sexism that is present. When most users click on the upload they don't read the comments. Did they come here for comments? No. They came to masturbate to pornographic Japanese cartoons. Do you really think that seeing a sexist comment on a porn comic will really deter people? If you do then I consider you to be naive.
Honestly I do think sexist comments deter people, I hear cosplayers have to deal with it a lot
It's easy to brand porn sites as this, but I would surmise that the very fact that even pornography is starting to change their ideas. You have 'ordinary' sites like PornHub having a 'Female-Friendly' section, and a celebration and fundraiser of Breast Cancer Awareness Month. I assumed Fakku may actually embrace these ideals they're trying, and as such I thought it might have been worth a discussion, that's all.
And I think that for one person who is at least trying to get a dialogue going, there are going to be multiple women who have re-enforced attitudes that it really is just for misogynist nerds and nobody really is any the better for it.
Know what you can do? Go out and ask the users of the site if sexist comments, which are on almost every upload, deter then from enjoying themselves. Do that and then you can come back and talk to me about it. Also, is this site about people cosplaying? No? I see why you would use that as an example but it is a pointless example here as it does not relate to what you are trying to discuss.
Also, "misogynist nerds", really? You're just going to stoop to insults? Based on your previous comments I had thought you were above that. Guess I was wrong. What do you think gives you the right to make baseless assumptions about people you have never even talked to, let alone met? Do you feel so superior because you find something on a hentai website to be disagreeable?
Please, sir, provide me with reasoning for your statements. Trying to make a point without backing it up at all is a waste of your time and mine.
EDIT: It seems you don't understand white knighting. It has nothing to do with marital status. It's when you just rush in to defend a user/group of users simply because they are women.
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Grenouille88 wrote...
Know what you can do? Go out and ask the users of the site if sexist comments, which are on almost every upload, deter then from enjoying themselves. Do that and then you can come back and talk to me about it.
Like I said, there is already a place for everyone to just be a dick and have a laugh, and that's the forum. Allowing people to put misguided and poor populist sentiments right next to your main content sends out a subtle but whole new message.
Grenouille88 wrote...
Also, is this site about people cosplaying? No? I see why you would use that as an example but it is a pointless example here as it does not relate to what you are trying to discuss.Why does it not?
Grenouille88 wrote...
Also, "misogynist nerds", really? You're just going to stoop to insults? Based on your previous comments I had thought you were above that. Guess I was wrong. What do you think gives you the right to make baseless assumptions about people you have never even talked to, let alone met? Do you feel so superior because you find something on a hentai website to be disagreeable?The point was that people mistakenly think that it's for misogynist nerds, I'm saying they have the wrong idea. I know not everyone is actually like that here, but this is exactly what I am trying to express; that bad assumptions lead to bad assumptions and a gender excluded. You get this offended over a simple rhetorical application of the inverse?
Please don't be mad, I sense a hostile tone from you but honestly I mean well, and it's certainly nothing to get frustrated over
Grenouille88 wrote...
Please, sir, provide me with reasoning for your statements. Trying to make a point without backing it up at all is a waste of your time and mine.
I don't know what you mean by this. What would be adequate reasoning by your standards? Reasoning is a vague term in an of itself
Grenouille88 wrote...
EDIT: It seems you don't understand white knighting. It has nothing to do with marital status. It's when you just rush in to defend a user/group of users simple because they are women.
Generally I was under the impression was just a weird and hollow motive to make girls thankful for your behaviour in the remote chance they'd fuck you. I don't really care about the terminology of it, if I'm honest, it's not where I'm coming from with this.
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Lughost
the Lugoat
Ok. So. I've tried to explain things several times here, and you're just not gonna have any of it.
Yes, I was becoming hostile. I answer such stubborn and pigheadedness with hostility, but that's aside the point.
Congratulations, sir, you have outlasted my patience and I can think of no method or suitable reason to continue this line of discussion. You just keep on keepin' on.
Good day.
Yes, I was becoming hostile. I answer such stubborn and pigheadedness with hostility, but that's aside the point.
Congratulations, sir, you have outlasted my patience and I can think of no method or suitable reason to continue this line of discussion. You just keep on keepin' on.
Good day.
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Grenouille88 wrote...
Ok. So. I've tried to explain things several times here, and you're just not gonna have any of it.Yes, I was becoming hostile. I answer such stubborn and pigheadedness with hostility, but that's aside the point.
Congratulations, sir, you have outlasted my patience. You just keep on keepin' on. Good day.
It's a shame, I thought we were covering new things, and I did appreciate what you had to say.
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I have a question for you. If this group was reversed and the people you perceive to be persecuted ie woman in this context of the dialogue and it were men who were treated this way, would you care? Would you honestly care? I don't think so, and in that line of reasoning I can safely deduce you're not doing this for equality's sake but for the sake of protecting women from the big bad sexist monsters on the comments of the manga section. Your kind disgusts me, you go around protecting women who can protect themselves just fine. You don't do it for your pathetic rationalization of equality but you do it because you want to be seen as a champion and protector of womankind. That sure is whiteknighting I'll have you know. Ask yourself one simple question, and I want you to answer me this honestly. If it was men instead of women who were treated this way of your perceived sexism, would you care?
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GracefulDiscension. wrote...
I have a question for you. If this group was reversed and the people you perceive to be persecuted ie woman in this context of the dialogue and it were men who were treated this way, would you care?I would certainly care had society's entire power structure was reversed and women could actually gain social legitimacy at the highest levels of society victimising and justifying the rape men based on the attitudes that men who sleep around actually 'like it'. But the total opposite is the case, you just have to look at a harem series or our bar culture to see that.
Just to point that there are male issues I do care about, I think systematised male circumcision based for religious and the mother's reasons that it 'just looks gross' are absolutely abhorrent and backwards in the 21st century. It does work both ways.
I fear all of this is really over whether the attitudes around 'slut-shaming' and generic attitudes to rape culture is ok and it is simply not. Most any woman in the 21st century (and particularly ones that have a free internet access with other women) would agree, I could just as easily not be here and it still applies.
But at the same time, any progressive feminist would also agree that you can be a man and care about women's rights. If you truly identify as such, there is nothing to champion in this regard, and you would understand that the actual struggles with things such as rape culture are only made by women and as such are only defined on their terms.
