Should we declare War on North Korea?

I believe that something should be done, but war is not the answer. If we do in fact go to war with North Korea we will most certainly cause more damage to our country than we actually need, and with the economy as bad as it currently is if we enter into another war it would only make us even poorer, and we would then be unable to support our troops.

Here, a silent coup: We'll even ask our 'good friends', the Mossad to help along with the CIA. Plan an assassination of every senior North Korean official. With a more sane and open government in North Korea, we can dissolve the situation without any lives lost. Which is what people want.

If that's your solution, it's pretty shitty. You can't just say "Here, we'll do this." Assassinating every senior NK official isn't a plan that can just be assumed to happen without a hitch or with the world not batting an eyelash. Also, dissolve the situation without any lives lost? How about the NK officials? They're technically people, right?

Your rather Out-topic,what the Poster meant was should the U.S declare war on North Korea not a Community mobilizing for War.

Assasination sounds easy on paper, but once you put it into motion, the slightest hitch will unravel that plan.

Plus, if that were to happen and word gets out that the US, through Mossad, (assuming that they'd even want to help anyway), plotted an assasination against NK Officials, that'll be reason enough for North Korea to attack us, and possibly attack the Middle East.

Plus, it would still cost the US money and resources, neither of which we can ill-afford to squander.

As to putting another government in charge of North Korea; as much as people in the US, and parts around world, would want that, it's not up to us to do so. Plus, do you really think the citizens, given what's basically beaten into their heads, would WILLINGLY allow ANY Western country to come in and say, "We're putting a new government for you." We can't even take care of our own citizens. Hell, we have more than enough trouble keeping US Government officials in check.

War with North Korea shouldn't be a priority. We need to exhaust every other option before we can start talking about war.

Afterall, war doesn't determine who is right or wrong, only who is left.

[size=14]This is under the assumption that getting rid of a bad regime means that the next regime that gets put in place is good. This is not the case as you can clearly see all throughout history (English civil war replaced bad king with an equally bad lord protector, Russian Revolution replaced a corrupt autocracy with pseudo-socialism and then equally corrupt pseudo-communism) and currently in Northern Africa(Egypt, Syria).

What you'd also be doing there would cutting the head off the chicken. By that I mean you'd be killing what the north korean people rely on but that wouldn't stop them functioning, they would just be functioning badly. You can't just destroy what little governing body the North Koreans have because you think the North Koreans pose a threat, it would literally cripple them.

And again you haven't taken the north korean people into your considerations. These people have been indoctrinated into thinking that their way of life is the only way of life and some if not most of them love the current leadership. You think these people would be willing to create a stable government that would be willing to make peace with the murderers of their leaders? You are deluded. If anything it would only aggravate NK further and isn't dealing with the actual issue here: The nuclear weapons.

Also the fact that you can state that there would be "No lives lost" Is actually hilarious when you are suggesting we kill everyone involved in the current North Korean regime. [/h]

Since you obviously don't know, the U.S moved nuclear weapons in South Korea because we accused the Soviets of doing the same but we never gave evidence, just accused them of doing it.

It's not looking after your own interests when you show the world a lack of integrity. I guess America can lie and do whatever it wants in your eyes because America can do no wrong and anyone who criticizes the U.S deserves to be invaded, right?

The next blurb even implies that I'm against the U.S despite the fact that between us, I'm the one enlisting and you're the one who gets to stay at home. It's because I love my country that I point out where it goes wrong.



You couldn't find fresher bullshit if you reached inside a bull's ass. I guess you consider anyone a traitor when they try to humanize those you demonize or criticize a bad foreign policy that makes more enemies than friends and starts more wars than it prevents. Though, I'm not surprised since it's coming from someone whose sexually aroused by the idea of the U.S blowing up "dem forners"



Just as North Korea and North Vietnam were proxy states for the Soviet Union so are South Korea and Japan for the U.S. The fact that children can understand this and you can't shows a severe lack in your capabilities.



[sarcasm]No, please don't, you have so much to live for.[/sarcasm] North Korea already has nuclear weapons, so slitting your throat would only save us from your inane, childish and uneducated views.




North Korea does not wish to "Westernize" like South Korea and Japan. This might surprise you but, some countries don't think the unsustainable consumerism of the U.S is a good model to follow. I know, I know, it's inconceivable in your eyes for someone not to worship and suck the mighty cock of the United States but, it's true. Constant warmongering and interference in the affairs of our nations has not enamored many to the U.S.






What the bloody hell does a republic have to do with anything? I was stating that North Korea has made concessions when we've demanded it and yet, we never come through on our end of the bargain. How are they supposed to negotiate with us if we won't uphold the deal?



Blowback is a bitch. People like you don't seem capable of understanding that muddling in the affairs of other nations does not make them our friends. Do you understand that simple concept?



The reality is, our aggressive and interventionist foreign policy is making us more enemies than friends. People resent the United States for constantly sticking it's nose into the affairs of other countries.



We strike them they will retaliate and we will be at war with a nuclear state.



Fascism is a conservative i.e "Right-Wing" ideology. One that involves social conservatism and authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism. Fascism is the most "Right-wing" you can go.

You don't even know anything about your own ideology. No wonder it always seems like you're talking out of your ass.



Lustful probably doesn't consider North Koreans "people" simply because they aren't 'Merican enough.

Are you serious? North Korea has hackers based in China, Fakku wouldn't have a chance. They might even show the FBI fakku's loli reserves....

Should we?

No.



Will we?

Probably.

Actually, let me be truthful. Most soldiers really don't have a strong political thesis, neither do you. Your basic thesis is that we're this bad evil country, we need to leave everyone alone and everything will be okay.

Naive if not outright childish, unfortunately we are involved and we were involved.
Withdrawing from the South leaves it open to subjugation. The North has implied as much as recently as 48 hours.

Here's an offer I would propose for our forces to leave:
I'd withdraw 15,000 of our 20,000 men from the Korean Territory. In exchange, North Korea must resign the NPT, shut down its reactors and the negotiations must be laid out for a Korean State.

Afterwards, it should be an open democratic process to elect the new leaders of this Korean State.

If North Korea were to refuse this fair offer, we know then that interest is not in driving away the so called "Imperialist" forces, nor in stabilizing the lives of North Koreans. But in remaining a military power that abuses its own people.





You know, I really should ignore you when you keep on saying I'm "sexually aroused" by the idea of this country going into warfare. It implies I'm unaware of the sacrifices on the ground. To the contrary, I am fully aware of the sacrifices these heightened tensions could bring.

But I'm also far more aware of the sacrifices that could be brought by doing nothing, or worst yet appeasement. You actually want us to twiddle our thumbs before a nation state that has declared it will use nuclear weapons against civilians.

Sanctions haven't worked, leaving them alone will only embolden them to think more aggressively towards the U.S. Believing in their own propaganda, recently stating we'd like a nuclear war out in North Korea!

Anyone who knows American history, knows that we avowed from the use of nuclear weapons since we first used them against Japan in WW2. Knowing then what a devastating force they would be. They are weapons of deterrents, not weapons of warfare.

Also, seeing as NK has nukes and seeing Russia's interest in the region, it wouldn't be so farfetched to state that Soviet did indeed place nukes in the North.
Why would the U.S. release classified information?





Actually, it just shows we have vastly different thoughts on what a Proxy State is.
It doesn't matter whether a country leans pro communism, or pro "democracy" or pro anything at all. A proxy state, would act on behalf of the host nation. When
we weaken and in fact disable the Japanese army, its use as a proxy state has
dwindled.

Despite the South being our "proxy state", its not as though we've assimilated the North. Nor have we made any moves to encroach China. They are very literally chess pieces that are "frozen", they are assets just for the purpose of being an asset.

And to what? Certainly not to the military in their frozen state. And they aren't assets to the people. South Korea and Japan share one thing in common: Should we move forces from those regions, hostile states won't hesitate to expand(see:China)

The North Korean leadership has abducted civilians of our great ally Japan:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/north-korean-spies-snatched-sister-1711093

Do you think they'd hesitate if we were to leave Japan more vulnerable?

Is this the behavior of a nation state on the world stage? This isn't a mere matter of economics. If this is the way they view the region in the world, we know damn well what they think of us.

We cannot, and it has been a grave mistake in the past to have looked away from them. General MacArthur said as much back then, and it's true now.





This quote, ladies and gentleman at a time where the aforementioned poster proclaims I have a lust for warfare. He now claims that because I'm inane, childish and uneducated that I'm better off dead.

Yes, North Korea already has nuclear weapons. Because of a failed policy of containment. That the current leadership has threatened to use these weapons, not against an army or against a blockade or any advance of military forces but American cities shows their unprecedented danger to the world community.

I could say just the same to you, do you have any idea how the situation has escalated over the past month? The past 72 hours? A nation state that said its life, wasn't in the prosperity of its people but in the prosperity of its nuclear program.

I've nothing against the North Korean citizens, in fact they are victims of their own authoritarian government to whom if they don't comply they themselves will meet death. As I said, the opposition towards a tyrannical and diabolical government is for the betterment of the Koreas, for Asia and for world stability.

So much so, if South Korea is a "proxy state", I am more than willing to give up that status. What's important is prosperity in the Korean Peninsula, what's important is stabilizing these regional conflicts.

If we remember, both WWI and WWII started not with a bang, but with unresolved regional conflicts.

This regional conflict is one of the most significant, peace in the Asian Region will give outlook to peace in the Middle Eastern region. And resolving this conflict and eliminating a nuclear threat to the world will lead us closer to a world without war.





To be fair, there are some economic considerations in this struggle(when aren't there any?) but the far more significant point of North Korea not wishing to "Westernize", is the obvious behavior of theirs which is still in the Old Asia where conflicts brewed and tragedies such as the Rape of Nanking were but a second thought.

Its a country that has absolutely no access to the internet, no access to the outside world. Its a nation whose military has grown stronger and its people have grown poorer. Not only is it a threat to other nations, its a threat to its own survival and North Korean people.

There's only so much aid international countries can give. Look at Africa and its famine problem. How long have we tried to give aid in that situation? At some point, you've gotta help yourself.

A true a statement individually, as in geopolitics. If North Korea wants improved relations, improved status, etc. Its going to have to look at itself very critically and say that threatening the world over with nukes is not the way to go about improvement. Nor is espionage and kidnapping civilians of other countries.









I'm saying your defending a regime who quite frankly doesn't care about the prospects of peace. Their very actions(which you're justifying) clearly states that. And when haven't we upheld the deal? North Korea got a big victory in negotiations when they said we could only investigate their main facilities. We said 'okay' and we let them off the terror list.

More hawkish neo cons such as John McCain opposed it, noting that we got raped in the process. We've constantly sent aid and support to the North Korean territories. It was NK who in spite of all this said it had the right to its nuclear weapons program, and clearly(through their own statements and fact) they hold their program more dear than the citizens with which they are obligated to protect.





No case more clearer than Iran, whereas we were former allies with Iran and much of the Middle Eastern world before supporting Jewish Hegemony in the Middle Eastern regions. Rather than think of the U.S. as the big bad, know that whereas the Israelite can brag about the political power that is Zionism, we can't acknowledge that very restricting power.

In fact, Chuck Hagel was grilled over acknowledging it. Former defense secretary Panetta also didn't like Israel's aggressive tone, noting that its counterproductive to peace talks.

And while we're talking about nuclear states, here's this:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-political-insanity-the-samson-option-israeli-letter-poem-to-grass-if-we-go-everyone-goes/30460

The "unconfirmed", dirty little secret. Unlike Iran, Israel is NOT a signee of the NPT.

If I were commander in chief, if Israel wants me to pressure the Iranian state, it has to sign the NPT and commit to a world without nuclear weapons. Only an Israeli commitment can inflame tensions in that part of the world.

Also, your notion that the world sees us as Imperialist? Not so much:

http://www.pewglobal.org/database/?indicator=1

Or if we are imperialists, they seem to be satisfied with our form of imperialism.






See above, the only nations who significantly harbor dislike of the U.S are the aforementioned regions where conflicts are currently involved. Its for this reason that you suggest that we leave it alone. But the risk upon leaving it alone is it growing into a wider, more national confrontation.

The investment of the development of many of these second and third world warring regional states is quite heavy and Bush was quite arrogant to think it would be a matter resolved in a few months, let alone a few years. But in a couple of decades, as the Iraqi democracy evolves and the corruption is fought successfully by their own people(as well as other parts in the Middle Eastern world), we may finally see a more modern and moderate approach to religion and understanding.

But I'm not under the delusion that'll come anytime soon.






Uh, my idea involves around crippling the enemy's nuclear firepower. Before we can even think about regime or policy change in a volatile region like this, we have to disable the enemy's capability of inviting disaster into the region, into the world.

I'm the kind of guy who always has my eye on the ball, and the 'ball' so to speak is the North Korean Government's access to Nuclear Weapons.





Actually, it was propaganda that appointed Fascism as a right wing ideology. None of its proponents, whether it was Hitler in Germany or Mussolini in Italy ever thought of it as part of the mainstream, but rather a revolution.

One in which understanding that government by its nature is intended to be a structure, a pillar on which the nation is built. The combination of "Clay and Steel". Social programs such as welfare, medicaid, etc have a place in America for example but by making them self sufficient and reliable, we will allow these security programs to live for several generations more.

It is self sufficiency, it is in short how businesses run their operations. Whereas the government currently believes we can print money out of thin air and we don't have to manage anything.





I led myself here, it was a poor choice of words. Shall I say we've avoided civilian casualties? Fiery, you said you're a soldier so you should know full well that a western thinking government prioritizes its citizens above its soldiers.

You've taken on the self sacrificial duty of fighting wars, that is to say to undertake hell itself. Its up to those of us who aim to be politicians, philosophers to put our best spirits into action to some day eliminate that hell.

Though it might not be fully optimal, but peace through the prosperity of the people has led us to a world where we've experienced relative peace. Now, the greatest challenge in front of us is creating prosperity in these war torn, politically and religiously abused regions.

I believe Fascism to be the evolution, that if war hadn't broken out the world would have recognized. Leadership through the most qualified of men and women, inspiring millions of others to reach their best selves. Self sufficiency as to make everything optimal.

I will create a self sufficient America and aim to create a self sufficient world.

So, Lustful, since you avoided addressing the responses to your "silent coup," will you at least admit it was a terrible plan to begin with?

Uh, no considering I did in fact respond to it.(Please try to read). I said a response was absolutely necessary. I believe this regime has also lost the "credibility to lead."

So the NK Citizens believe the propaganda they are fed. Guess what? The same is for every other oppressive regime in the world. If you don't believe or put on the act of believing, well, I mentioned it before but they face the threat of death, imprisonment, etc.

It was so bad in Soviet Russia with Stalin and his Gulags and work Factory slavery that the Russians were delighted the Nazis invaded.

And we're no Nazis. A unified Korea is the goal, just the same as a two state solution in Israel(former Palestine) has long been U.S. Policy.

There will be sacrifices, but the long term benefits to the end of N.K's terrorist, rogue government far outweigh these sacrifices.

DJ 4DM1N would not like that.

But in all seriousness, I don't think that the U.S. should be declaring war, as doing so would be equated to a bully picking on the wimpy smart-aleck.

I did read and all you responded to was your poorly worded sentence and not what Proxy2128 or I said directly about your coup.

P.S. I deleted the rest of your quote because it was irrelevant to what I asked.

It was relevant, don't go judging what you deem 'relevant' or not, just because you don't agree with it, or more likely you didn't even have a response to it.

I gave you direct reasons for why taking action would be positive, and that just as there was Russian support for the German 'invasion', so too would many North Korea defectors come out once they feel they have the logistical support of the U.S.

Given an actual choice, many North Koreans probably aspire for a world with an abundance of money, food and technology.

Wow just wow. I am asking something so simple of you, Lustful, and you just won't do it. This is why people get pissed at you. Now, I am going to say this in big letters so you'll maybe just maybe pay attention: SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS WHAT PROXY2128 AND I SAID ABOUT YOUR "SILENT COUP" PLAN. Honestly at this point I just want to see if you're capable of giving a straight answer.

"A nuclear deterrent, cause that calms things right down"

Couldn't have said it better Tony Stark.




Face it, america started this by bringing it's nuclear weapons to south korea and if it pushes any more america will suffer the consequence of it's actions. If you think that 9/11 was bad, what 9/11 proved was that america is not the invincible country that it claims to be, and north korea will shoves those words so far down americas throat that next time it uses the bathroom it will crap out alphabet cereal.

There was not a single issue with north korea and south korea before the new round of UN and US sanctions, and the movement of nuclear weapons. There was a lot of posturing, and idle threats as there has been since the korean war, but now, there is no one left to blame.

Just accept the facts, america has screwed this one up big time.




And when I turn on american television, what exactly do I see? The same thing, be afraid of your neighbours, be afraid of the police, be afraid of dogs, be afraid of food, be afraid of other countries, buy more guns, ban more guns. Or am I missing something?

I believe I did, whether you're actually capable of reading or not is not my concern. There may be initial resistance, followers, sympathizers of the current regime but there would be just as many North Koreans who see the prosperity of the South who say 'Freedom!'

There may well be political chaos, confusion, etc. But that's better than a 'stable' regime that threatens its neighbors, the region and American Citizens.

Even the 'worst case' scenario in the event of an attempted coup is better than allowing the current regime to continue to take power. Allowing dissent to rise in the North, will give this regime vulnerability. It will make it possible for the citizens to think 'Yes, we can do this.'

At this point, I just want to see if you can read the following reason. If you disagree with it, actually debate it. If not, what are you doing in the thread? Like, seriously?

At least FPOD does have a political thesis, and political disagreement on how to handle the situation. All you've done is foam at the mouth.

I already went over this with FPOD. The Soviets connected with the North, far before we moved into the South. And while he states that the U.S. Government at that time didn't provide 'proof', I believe the current existence of their state. The history of their aggression is proof of where North Korea historically has been.

So try as you may, we didn't initiate conflict in this region, and infact:

The South doesn't even have Nukes at the present day if this is to be believed



We didn't move nuclear weapons, we moved B-2 aircraft, which is capable of carrying such weaponry. But capable and actually carrying it are two different things. And let me give you a couple of reasons why we probably aren't carrying.

It would be a big blow to America's international image if we nuclear attacked North Korea. The blowback from Bush's refusal to corporate with the U.N would be childsplay compared to the U.S., a state that declared out in the open that it wouldn't use nukes in the future to use nukes.

Following on that, any pressure on Iran regarding its nuclear program would be obsolete. Why should Iran listen to America when it openly uses nuclear weaponry?

Also, we moved said carriers and ships to Asian positions in response to the threats by North Korea, not only to its Southern neighbor but to our American Citizens





Did you just compare American media to North Korean media? Lets put it into perspective: Very recently, there was a T.V show called the Conspiracy Theory(admittedly, it got canceled or did it start back up again? I didn't really watch, but just heard from a few friends.)

I can guarantee you, North Korean media won't allow a THING that criticizes North Korean political, social and economic way of life.

Because in your example of the russians and the nazi's of ww2, the russians were so joyful to see their german liberators that they overthrow the rest of their government and gladly joined the nazi movement. But that didn't happen, 27 million russians died fighting the nazi's and those who sympathized with the nazi's were killed by the nazi's because they were not german, nor seen as equal to the germans.

It wasn't even close to as you claimed, many would rather burn the farm lands and their own homes to prevent the nazi's from having an inch of soil, that was the scorched earth policy. Did you even read a history book on operation barbarosa?

Did you know that the nazi's did not show up as liberators, that they actually had a treaty with the soviet union for prevent them from going to war which the nazi's broke when they invaded. Do you even realize that the russians fought on 2 fronts, both on the eastern front and on the southern front against the japanese, which they were fighting against in 2 seperate wars prior to the second world war, the battle of manchurian railway comes to mind.

You made a very poor choice in example to compare to this, is america were to do what you say it should as in this comparision, america would have to be an ally to north korea with a peace treaty and no sanctions then invade.



Yes, yes I did. And being that I have lived my whole life as a non-american in another country and mostly seen america through what they claim to be from american television channels, I can safely say that you as an american have NO idea just how brainwashed you are.