The Frontier of Time

Circe: I understand your point and I do feel those maternal instincts from time to time. But on the whole, I don't really have the emotional statmina to fathom taking care of babies. So no matter what my ancestors instinctually did to take care of their families, I rebel against it because I don't feel...like I'm really needed to conform to that.

And I would say that...though the enactment of women's right is relatively new, there were matriarchal societies and random spurts of women asserting power long before that.

So...I don't think it's fair to compare...what ook and arga did to today's standards...
Then I can't help thinking about what you were telling me the other day and wonder what you would do to gender roles if you managed to wipe out over half the human population.

PumpJack McGee: Well- I wasn't REALLY comparing them. But it's just a matter of understanding origins. And- no, no. I've no grand scheme for changing gender roles.

Circe: Sorry, I just was thinking but I didn't want to type it in the main chat as I am slightly resentful of video games at the moment : |

PumpJack McGee: See. Hm.
My own, personal stance upon women.
It's mixed between old and new.
So it could easily be viewed as sexist.
But here it is, plain.

I fully advocate and support women to have jobs, to vote, to do and have all the same rights as men. This shouldn't even be a matter of contention. Equal pay. Equal rights.

But-
Here's the old-fashioned bit.

If women wanted to- they should and could stay at home and simply be the mother/wife.
The man would provide for everything: Food/Shelter/pay the bills.
And she breeds and rears the children.

Circe:They make that choice now though, don't they?

PumpJack McGee:Well, see. What I'm saying is- is that women can choose whether or not to be an active participant in society, or they can choose to stay at home and open her legs for hubby.
He brings home the bacon- but in return, lemme in for fun time.

Circe: But...that's not really fair, is it?
1) Just because she's the pregnant one and has to squeeze out the little demon, why should it means she's the one that has to take care of it?
2) the man can stay home while she brings home the money

It's only 9 months
Out of a long lifetime
But it cripples us into taking responsibility for it...though it took 2 to make it...

PumpJack McGee: I see where you're coming from. But this is where I would pull the nature card and argue maternal instincts. That men were not designed to raise children. Or babies- at least. Women are the ones that carry the breasts that is the most important form of sustenance for a child during the early stages of it's life, and- having carried them in their womb for so long- have formed that deep bond that only mother and child share. Sure- a guy can raise a kid- but I'd argue that they could never do it as well as a woman can.

PumpJack McGee: Only when the child reaches the age of six or so would the dad be of any real benefit.

Otherwise, his only duty is to make sure that the "nest" is secure.

Circe: Well
I would disagree that a man can't raise a child as well as a woman.
That's why similac exists

PumpJack McGee: Simiwhatsits?

Circe: Babies don't have to drink breast milk
In fact, many women choose to not breast feed
Similac is basically synthetic breast milk

PumpJack McGee: No matter what they say- nothing synthetic in anything can ever do the job as well as the real deal.

Circe:Well
I'm just talking from a woman of today, rather than a woman of the 1200s
If I stayed home with the babies and fed them breast milk while I husband worked
Or my husband stayed home and fed them similac while I worked
In the end, we'd end up with a similar child
Neither better than the other

PumpJack McGee: You and your child share the same genetic data- and so the child's system would readily accept it. Same can't be said for a foreign substance.

Circe:Ok
Then I can use a breast pump
Lol

Stop trying to shove me into the home, Jack

I have options

PumpJack McGee: Haha. I know that- I said so myself.

Circe: Besides, the child only needs breast milk for 6ish months
As far as the rest of the nurturing
A man could do just fine

Or rather, I'm not sure why you think a man can't

PumpJack McGee: It's simply not the same dynamic between father and child as it is between mother and child. This is observable. Of course you'll see exceptions (same as humanity has seen Matriarchal societies), but it's undeniable that they are exceptions.

I stand by the belief that when it comes to child rearing from the ages of 0-6, the birth mother is the best option by far.

This has been seen with adopted children like me in other studies.

Circe: I guess we'll agree to disagree

PumpJack McGee: But of course.
Still interesting to talk about, though.

Circe: Of course
I don't mind someone disagreeing with me.

Unless they are trying to force me to agree

PumpJack McGee: But yes- related to what you mentioned earlier: past and present.

Circe: But as far as that with the women being more emotionally attached after sex, did you read about the oxytocin?

PumpJack McGee: Your views are very modern, whilst I am cemented in the past.

Oh wait, what.

Ah- yes.

Circe: Well...I have some blend in me as well

As adamant as I am that men and women are equal in child-rearing respects

PumpJack McGee: Is it proper to strike a woman? Lessay.

Circe: I sometimes have those visions and feelings of being the little wifey

If she won't shut the fuck up, why not, lol

Is what I would like to say
But...I'm more outraged at a woman being hit by a man
But probably wouldn't hesitate to smack the salt off a man's face

PumpJack McGee: EXACTLY.
That's a glaring double-standard right there in the equality argument.

Circe: There's plenty of them

PumpJack McGee: But it's one that's felt by most people worldwide.

Circe: Because all over the worlds generations have treated women as the weaker sex
What's more angering, a kitten smacking a bear or a bear smacking a kitten

PumpJack McGee: So you think that this thinking is indoctrinated?
Violence against women = bad.

Circe: Public violence
Behind closed doors, perhaps not so much

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MxwMUd9P7A

PumpJack McGee: But even within privacy- you think it's more "wrong" for a man to hit a woman than the opposite.

Circe: What I think and what I feel are different

If a woman does someone that deserves a good slap, I would like to think I'm ok with it.
But if I were to see it, I would feel angry

It's the same way that I wouldn't consider myself Christian, but I still cringe at religious jokes or insults

Or worry if I'm wracking up sin points for certain things

PumpJack McGee: Well- let's say that there are two couples. In one- the man cheats on the wife. The other, it's wife who cheats on the man. Both cheaters get a beating that you witness both occurrences personally. Which one is more difficult to watch?

Circe: Neither
I don't tolerate cheaters
I would also say

PumpJack McGee: Well- just an example of the same scenario- but genders reversed.

Circe: Think about how often I see a woman bloody and beaten vs how often I see a man bloody and beaten

I'm desensitized to the man one by now
But the woman one...not so much

PumpJack McGee: Hm. What about societies in the Middle East. Paradigm shift. A woman slaps her husband. Her husband beats her in retaliation. The people over there don't think much of it. Rather appalled that she dared hit him- but that's it. Why is it that these people let it slide or even think the man is justified in his actions?

Circe: I'm not well versed enough in their culture to give an educated answer
But for a baby growing up today and watching it and seeing that it's totally ok when their dad hits their mom
Naturally...they're most likely to just accept it

Kind of the same here really, a child that grows up in an abusive home is more likely to be abusive. Even though society will tell them it's wrong so they struggle internally with the debate of their caretakers examples and societal standards
Somehow I ended up reading about patient zero and I have no idea how...

PumpJack McGee: Ah- but here's the kicker. So we both agree that how someone is raised will determine their view on gender.

But now.

New scenario.

If we were to take complete amnesiacs. Theoretically complete and total amnesiacs. And dump them onto some empty island to start their own civilization. Clean slate. From scratch- free of any and all influences. Decisions made on pure instinct.

Several generations down the road, how do you think gender roles would be divided?
Basically- take modern humans but put them back into circumstances similar to the very first humans.

Circe: Do they remember that women are child-bearers?

PumpJack McGee: They don't remember anything. All they have is instinct.

Circe: language?

PumpJack McGee: Will have to develop anew.

Circe: So
.....teamwork?
Or....survivor

Their instincts would be

food
poop
sleep

and after a while, sex

PumpJack McGee: Humans are social animals by nature.
Like chimps.

Circe: So teamwork

PumpJack McGee: Yep.

Circe:Until the women stays home with the baby
And the male goes out and hunts for food
Then we're all fucked again

PumpJack McGee: So you believe that they would simply squabble and die?

Circe: ? when did I say that??

PumpJack McGee: [November 13, 2011 5:44 PM] circe:

<<< Then we're all fucked again]

I thought that was what you implied.

Circe: I mean women
Or rather I meant, we'd be back to where we are

PumpJack McGee: So in other words- the theory that I presented at the very start, right?

Circe: Yes

PumpJack McGee: So in a neutral situation as such- or let's say the oft-wondered post-zombie-apocalypse world- people would have a natural tendency to fall into the roles that I described. Or something rather similar.

Circe: You squeeze something out, you're likely to want to protect it

......wait, that doesn't apply to poop

You squeeze something *living* out, you're likely to want to protect it

PumpJack McGee: Exactly my point.
One of them, rather.

Circe: If it's post-apocalyptic though
The woman is going to have to play both roles

PumpJack McGee: To an extent- yes. Something akin to modern primates of today.
But when predators- ergo- threats- are about. The men step into the line of fire. It's the old hierarchy of protection: Men, women, boys, girls, babies.

Circe: even the 6 yr old boys had to protect mom, didn't they

PumpJack McGee: If they were old enough to throw a punch- indeed so.

Circe: And if the woman was barren

PumpJack McGee: Hm? Ah- yes. She'd go down before the fertile ones.
Same with the elderly and sick.
Desperation tactics, though.

Circe: I'm a little lost atm, lol
*circe is A.D.D.'in*

PumpJack McGee: But they are what ultimately benefit the whole.

Anyways- all this to say is that what I suggest isn't really sexist. It's sexist according to the modern sentiments that we have grown up with. But it's the path that we- by the nature of our very beings- are prone to follow.

It is as such because it works.

It has for us in the past- and it does for other animals now.

Circe: And my rebellion is just that, trying to go against what has been set up for me because that's not very attractive to me

PumpJack McGee: Well- that makes sense.
But please don't interpret it as me telling you what to do.

[Circe: That and...I simply don't feel the maternal instincts that a lot of women might

I have a friend that is only about 22

And she has so many issues and is getting special painful shots that will make her life horrible for the next few months

All so she can have a baby
And I sit back and look at that and think...how is that shitting, crying, ungrateful little shit worth all that?

PumpJack McGee: Well- this is where we hit a new aspect of the whole debacle.

Life expectancy.

Circe: Ah

PumpJack McGee: This is where I argue that the modern women's liberation movement has been made possible due to the fact that humans now live longer lives and are also now the dominant species on the planet.

Things are no longer a matter of black and white survival.

We now have gray.

Circe: And according to you, we don't really need so many babies anyway

PumpJack McGee: Exactly.

Up until fairly recently upon the scale of human history- the average human life expectancy hovered around 40-50.

Circe: john keats at 26 ;~;

PumpJack McGee: Or-rather- it's just the fact that we are the dominant species of the planet- and so there's nothing to keep us in check.

With advancements in medicine. More people live longer all the while new people are being born. And with no natural predators, either- the population just boomed.

But we're beginning to tread towards a different matter- which we have glanced upon in our earlier discussion.

Circe: and creating things that make that impact even worse
Yeah, I know

[13/11/2011 6:09:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: I hope I'm not bugging you, by the way.
[13/11/2011 6:09:12 PM] PumpJack McGee: I feel kinda preachy.
[13/11/2011 6:09:28 PM] PumpJack McGee: Patronizing-like.
[13/11/2011 6:10:28 PM] PumpJack McGee: Now where was I.
[13/11/2011 6:10:31 PM] PumpJack McGee: Ah yes.

[13/11/2011 6:10:57 PM] circe: I like talking to you

[13/11/2011 6:11:11 PM] PumpJack McGee: So basically- with our longer lives. We have adopted a rather different viewpoint on the whole baby-making business.

[13/11/2011 6:11:27 PM] circe: Not that I don't like talking to others, but it's a kind different conversation

[13/11/2011 6:11:58 PM] PumpJack McGee: Well- I can say that I'm certainly glad that you do.
[13/11/2011 6:12:25 PM] PumpJack McGee: This is the exact kind of thing I was hoping to stir with the thread I made in CTFG.

circe: You made a thread?

[13/11/2011 3:35:03 PM] PumpJack McGee: Everyone knows women are sexy.
[13/11/2011 3:35:08 PM] circe: Women are sexy
[13/11/2011 3:35:15 PM] circe: And I have a strange obsession with breasts
[13/11/2011 3:35:23 PM] circe: But the thought of being sexually active with a woman physically turns my stomach
[13/11/2011 3:35:41 PM] PumpJack McGee: [November 13, 2011 3:33 PM] PumpJack McGee:

<<< Try everything once, eh mate?
[13/11/2011 3:35:50 PM] circe: How do you know I haven't?
[13/11/2011 3:36:20 PM | Edited 3:36:53 PM] Sam Ravening: SILENCE.
[13/11/2011 3:36:26 PM] circe: lmao
[13/11/2011 3:36:33 PM] Sam Ravening: As Pump contemplates that sentence.
[13/11/2011 3:36:42 PM] PumpJack McGee: [November 13, 2011 3:36 PM] Sam Ravening:

<<< SILIENCE.HA.
[13/11/2011 3:36:48 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Two women in one session for a guy is still like, huh?
[13/11/2011 3:36:49 PM] circe: fouteen
[13/11/2011 3:36:55 PM] PumpJack McGee: BAH.
[13/11/2011 3:36:57 PM] circe: ; D
[13/11/2011 3:36:59 PM] Sam Ravening: I don't know what you mean?
[13/11/2011 3:37:03 PM] Sam Ravening: DX
[13/11/2011 3:37:16 PM] circe: I would imagine it's a sensation explosion
[13/11/2011 3:37:51 PM] Sam Ravening: Explosion indeed.
[13/11/2011 3:37:54 PM] circe: Suddenly I can't help thinking about tentacles
[13/11/2011 3:37:57 PM] Tim//Calabazal: However, I have always been curious to a sex session with two couples, then both switching over half way through the session and visa versa or something along those lines, would only need to be tipsy for that to happen depending on who it was.
[13/11/2011 3:38:18 PM] circe: As long as they're strangers
[13/11/2011 3:38:34 PM] circe: Lol, my friend is a swinger actually, so I get to hear her experiences w/ couples
[13/11/2011 3:38:39 PM] Sam Ravening: Too much hassle otherwise.
[13/11/2011 3:38:42 PM] circe: ....and many other experiences
[13/11/2011 3:38:44 PM] PumpJack McGee: As long as everyone's health records are clean should be the primary concern.
[13/11/2011 3:38:54 PM | Removed 3:39:04 PM] Tim//Calabazal: This message has been removed.
[13/11/2011 3:39:00 PM] Tim//Calabazal: [November 13, 2011 3:38 PM] PumpJack McGee:

<<< As long as everyone's health records are clean should be the primary concern.That ^
[13/11/2011 3:39:18 PM] circe: Yes, but ....what about everything else after that? The EMOTIONAL part
[13/11/2011 3:39:48 PM] PumpJack McGee: And suddenly we enter a zone in which I am completely dumb to.
[13/11/2011 3:39:52 PM] circe: lol
[13/11/2011 3:39:57 PM] Sam Ravening: Yep.
[13/11/2011 3:40:01 PM] PumpJack McGee: Bull in a China Shop.
[13/11/2011 3:40:04 PM] Sam Ravening: Don't know what to say about that.
[13/11/2011 3:40:07 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Not sure, I mean, I lived with a my friends before for a short period of time, I pretty much saw everything there was to see... not sure what it would be like after sex however.
[13/11/2011 3:40:16 PM] circe: For me, sex is so intimate. I have to have a connection to a person to actually get any enjoyment out of it.
[13/11/2011 3:40:21 PM] circe: Otherwise I might as well just be doing it to myself.
[13/11/2011 3:40:30 PM] circe: But I'm a girl so...I can't speak for men.
[13/11/2011 3:40:48 PM] Sam Ravening: Time for the manliness man to speak.
[13/11/2011 3:40:56 PM] Sam Ravening: Pump, if you please.
[13/11/2011 3:41:04 PM] circe: So I can't have an orgy with a bunch of people I don't know b/c I doubt I'd enjoy it
[13/11/2011 3:41:17 PM] circe: But I can't have an orgy with a bunch of people I do know because that would just be fkn awkward
[13/11/2011 3:41:44 PM] PumpJack McGee: I think that stems way back into our primal selves. Way back when we were equals to the rest of the animal kingdom, and mating was a question of survival.
[13/11/2011 3:41:59 PM] PumpJack McGee: The emotional aspect.
[13/11/2011 3:42:08 PM] PumpJack McGee: As well as the pleasure aspect.
[13/11/2011 3:42:29 PM] Sam Ravening: Emotional?
[13/11/2011 3:42:34 PM] Sam Ravening: In the primal days...
[13/11/2011 3:42:34 PM] circe: Why is pump the spokesperson, lol
[13/11/2011 3:42:40 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: Yeah, I'm out
[13/11/2011 3:42:41 PM] Sam Ravening: It was more like a Trophy.
[13/11/2011 3:43:13 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: I have too few spare attention for this
[13/11/2011 3:43:29 PM] circe: I wish I knew why it makes melfy so uncomfortable.
[13/11/2011 3:43:31 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Question for Circe! XD
[13/11/2011 3:43:34 PM] circe: There's something there...
[13/11/2011 3:43:35 PM] Tim//Calabazal: What if...
[13/11/2011 3:43:47 PM] Tim//Calabazal: It was a stranger... but you got to know them over drinks that night?
[13/11/2011 3:43:58 PM] Sam Ravening: Ohoho.
[13/11/2011 3:44:01 PM] Sam Ravening: Nice angle.
[13/11/2011 3:44:03 PM] Sam Ravening: I like it.
[13/11/2011 3:44:08 PM] circe: I don't believe in love at first site and I don't trust people that easily
[13/11/2011 3:44:19 PM] PumpJack McGee: Bet ya do, you naughty boy.
[13/11/2011 3:44:31 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: I dont hve toime for libido and nobody close to let it feel it
[13/11/2011 3:44:35 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Darn it. Worth a shot ~
[13/11/2011 3:44:40 PM] circe: lol
[13/11/2011 3:45:05 PM] circe: I mean if we really made an amazing connection and had some wild adventure like in the movies
[13/11/2011 3:45:07 PM] circe: Sure why not
[13/11/2011 3:45:11 PM] circe: But that's a movie, that's not real life
[13/11/2011 3:45:14 PM] Sam Ravening: But that-
[13/11/2011 3:45:14 PM] PumpJack McGee: I swear Mel is a nun or something.
[13/11/2011 3:45:16 PM] Sam Ravening: Hah.
[13/11/2011 3:45:20 PM] Sam Ravening: Sniped.
[13/11/2011 3:45:23 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Yeh, true.
[13/11/2011 3:45:28 PM] circe: ....-imagines mel in nun clothing-
[13/11/2011 3:45:52 PM] PumpJack McGee: The world's most scientific nun.
[13/11/2011 3:46:12 PM] PumpJack McGee: Alright.
[13/11/2011 3:46:27 PM] PumpJack McGee: Sam brought something up and I was gonna answer.
[13/11/2011 3:46:36 PM] circe: in princess maker 2, learning science lowers your faith and magic defense..
[13/11/2011 3:46:47 PM] Sam Ravening: Ah.
[13/11/2011 3:46:48 PM] PumpJack McGee: But then the train left the station and capsized.
[13/11/2011 3:46:54 PM] Sam Ravening: I wondered if you would.
[13/11/2011 3:47:07 PM] PumpJack McGee: What was it again.
[13/11/2011 3:47:12 PM] circe: Emotional?
[13/11/2011 3:47:18 PM] Sam Ravening: Primal trophies.
[13/11/2011 3:47:22 PM] circe: [2:41:43 PM] PumpJack McGee: I think that stems way back into our primal selves. Way back when we were equals to the rest of the animal kingdom, and mating was a question of survival.
[2:41:58 PM] PumpJack McGee: The emotional aspect.
[2:42:07 PM] PumpJack McGee: As well as the pleasure aspect.
[2:42:27 PM] Sam Ravening: Emotional?
[13/11/2011 3:47:24 PM] PumpJack McGee: Ah. Yes.
[13/11/2011 3:48:07 PM] PumpJack McGee: Gimme a minute to gather up this Tornado Kansas which comprises my thoughts.
[13/11/2011 3:48:23 PM] Sam Ravening: Tornado?
[13/11/2011 3:48:26 PM] Sam Ravening: More like a gust.
[13/11/2011 3:48:50 PM] circe: Something bit me...
[13/11/2011 3:48:59 PM | Edited 3:49:09 PM] PumpJack McGee: Yes, yes. But let us agree that it is drafty in here and leave it at that.
[13/11/2011 3:49:27 PM] PumpJack McGee: Right.
[13/11/2011 3:49:35 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: back
[13/11/2011 3:49:41 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: no, I'm no nun
[13/11/2011 3:50:02 PM] Sam Ravening: You've got to pick a lane, Mel.
[13/11/2011 3:50:03 PM] PumpJack McGee: Still sexytimes here, Mel.
[13/11/2011 3:50:08 PM] Sam Ravening: You can't drive in the middle of the road.
[13/11/2011 3:50:14 PM | Edited 3:50:21 PM] PumpJack McGee: Get thee to a nunnery.
[13/11/2011 3:51:25 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: no
[13/11/2011 3:51:34 PM] PumpJack McGee: Anyways, I present this statement: Women are more emotional than men. At least in the sense of forming emotional connections.
[13/11/2011 3:51:46 PM] PumpJack McGee: Does anyone contest this?
[13/11/2011 3:51:51 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: ever seen a male yandere
[13/11/2011 3:51:55 PM] Tim//Calabazal: In general, I'd agree, however it isn't always the case
[13/11/2011 3:52:03 PM] Sam Ravening: With Tim
[13/11/2011 3:52:17 PM] Sam Ravening: But for argument's sake, I'll accept it fully.
[13/11/2011 3:52:19 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Hehe, I'm far more emotional than a lot of women I know.
[13/11/2011 3:52:27 PM] circe: I'm never emotional you jerk, How can you say something SO MEAN :~:
[13/11/2011 3:52:33 PM] Tim//Calabazal: However in general, I'd agree XD
[13/11/2011 3:53:31 PM] PumpJack McGee: Anyways, this is due to the woman's role as a mother and caregiver. We agree on this front.
[13/11/2011 3:53:59 PM] circe: I remember reading at some point how chemically after sex something happens to a woman that emotionally binds her to..whoever the person is. Which obviously, as Tim says, isn't always the case
[13/11/2011 3:54:28 PM] Sam Ravening: Yes, we agree Pump. Proceed.
[13/11/2011 3:54:32 PM] circe: I will say that, though my friend is a swinger, she often gets irritated/offended by guys and their attention or lack thereof, and often I can't understand how she can be so emotional about it when...it's pretty much based on one night stands.
[13/11/2011 3:54:36 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: she got his scent
[13/11/2011 3:55:07 PM] PumpJack McGee: I let people throw in their two cents before pressing forward.
[13/11/2011 3:55:20 PM] PumpJack McGee: This is how I Skype.
[13/11/2011 3:56:04 PM] circe: Wait
[13/11/2011 3:56:36 PM] circe: I'm confused at how can forming emotional connections with a partner have something to do with being a mother and a caregiver.
[13/11/2011 3:56:51 PM] Sam Ravening: Hah.
[13/11/2011 3:57:02 PM] Sam Ravening: I was just wanting him to get to the main argument. XD
[13/11/2011 3:57:13 PM] circe: Oh ok, then I retract my confusion
[13/11/2011 3:57:24 PM] PumpJack McGee: One point at a time. I'm trying to establish that women are more emotional than men first.
[13/11/2011 3:57:37 PM | Edited 3:57:45 PM] circe: ....you can't build a castle on sand..
[13/11/2011 3:57:40 PM] circe: wait lol;
[13/11/2011 3:57:55 PM | Edited 3:58:11 PM] Tim//Calabazal: [November 13, 2011 3:53 PM] circe:

<<< I remember reading at some point how chemically after sex something happens to a woman that emotionally binds her to..whoever the person is.This actually intrigues me.
[13/11/2011 3:58:10 PM] PumpJack McGee: Anyways- we also know that men can potentially give women babies until they die.
[13/11/2011 3:58:17 PM] Sam Ravening: I read that before actually...
[13/11/2011 3:58:19 PM] PumpJack McGee: Whereas women have the clock.
[13/11/2011 3:58:31 PM] PumpJack McGee: Yeah- there was some studies made on that.
[13/11/2011 3:58:44 PM] Sam Ravening: were*
[13/11/2011 3:58:47 PM] Sam Ravening: But anyway.
[13/11/2011 3:58:59 PM] circe: I will elaborate on that after pump is finish, Tim lol
[13/11/2011 3:59:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: Perhaps someone can go look for it whilst the rest here listen to ol' Pump's rambling.
[13/11/2011 3:59:57 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Tim//Calabazal sit's listening
[13/11/2011 4:00:36 PM] circe: grandpa jack, you smell like a forest
[13/11/2011 4:01:03 PM | Edited 4:01:12 PM] PumpJack McGee: Anyways- as such. We all know how the animal kingdom works on "survival of the fittest". So it was well expected that there would be many so-called "failed" offspring. And they either died or were exterminated. (I have been chopping firewood this morning)
[13/11/2011 4:01:34 PM] Sam Ravening: Oxytocin is the chemical I believe.
[13/11/2011 4:01:40 PM] circe: Shh Sam
[13/11/2011 4:01:43 PM] circe: let him go, lol
[13/11/2011 4:01:50 PM] Sam Ravening: v/////v
[13/11/2011 4:02:18 PM] PumpJack McGee: So- a guy- wanting to ensure his genetic line be passed down- would be fucking as much as he can. And in many species, this means multiple partners.
[13/11/2011 4:02:28 PM] PumpJack McGee: You see where I'm going with this.
[13/11/2011 4:02:59 PM] Tim//Calabazal: The funny thing is, the genetic line bit I can agree with.
[13/11/2011 4:03:15 PM] Sam Ravening: One problem.
[13/11/2011 4:03:29 PM] Sam Ravening: In our situation....that isn't the intention.
[13/11/2011 4:03:29 PM] PumpJack McGee: Guys fuck. Get girls pregnant. Girls stay with the children/are pregnant. But there's no guarantee that those ones will live. So he goes to fuck some more.
[13/11/2011 4:03:34 PM] circe: too bad the after impregnation care part doesn't often pan out as well
[13/11/2011 4:03:53 PM] circe: I don't want babies
[13/11/2011 4:03:53 PM] PumpJack McGee: It doesn't NOW, Sam.
[13/11/2011 4:03:57 PM] circe: I don't want to care for anything, lol
[13/11/2011 4:04:01 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Although that's probably me being broody from almost being a dad before.
[13/11/2011 4:04:02 PM] circe: I'll drop it and then I'm a murderer
[13/11/2011 4:04:06 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: thats why god invented "I'm gonna call ya!"
[13/11/2011 4:04:22 PM] PumpJack McGee: But I'm talkin about Ook from the rocky hill and Arga of the hairy lip.
[13/11/2011 4:04:27 PM] circe: Ook!
[13/11/2011 4:04:35 PM] circe: If I could rep that I would
[13/11/2011 4:04:36 PM] circe: lmao
[13/11/2011 4:04:43 PM] Sam Ravening: Lost on me.
[13/11/2011 4:04:44 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: ook is a programming language
[13/11/2011 4:04:50 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Also as Sam says, in this situation, we could quite easily arrange a "fall down the stairs" (No offense to anyone who doesn't like dark humor)
[13/11/2011 4:05:21 PM] circe: But doesn't that defeat the purpose of passing on the genetic line>
[13/11/2011 4:05:31 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: not his problem
[13/11/2011 4:05:45 PM] circe: But that was his goal, according to jack
[13/11/2011 4:05:45 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: he did what he was supposed to
[13/11/2011 4:05:50 PM] Tim//Calabazal: However in this case, we're just on about having sex with multiple people and attachments between females and males?
[13/11/2011 4:05:52 PM] PumpJack McGee: Anyways. That proves the fact that women are naturally inclined to be more emotional than men. Evolutionary roots.
[13/11/2011 4:05:55 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: plant the seed
[13/11/2011 4:06:01 PM] circe: Oh, sam can continue about the oxytocin
[13/11/2011 4:06:07 PM] Sam Ravening: To the nub of the argument at last.
[13/11/2011 4:06:11 PM] circe: http://www.azcentral.com/health/men/articles/0213healthysex-ON.html
[13/11/2011 4:06:12 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: if theres a bad harvest, seed some more
[13/11/2011 4:06:19 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: just in case
[13/11/2011 4:06:41 PM] circe: What about animals in which the women are the hunters and the men take care of the offspring
[13/11/2011 4:06:56 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: tough luck
[13/11/2011 4:07:03 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: Take bees:
[13/11/2011 4:07:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: But we're not talking about those animals.
[13/11/2011 4:07:14 PM] PumpJack McGee: We're talking about Human Beans.
[13/11/2011 4:07:15 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: Males only exist to fuck
[13/11/2011 4:07:18 PM] circe: o-o
[13/11/2011 4:07:24 PM] Sam Ravening: OH.
[13/11/2011 4:07:26 PM] Sam Ravening: MEL.
[13/11/2011 4:07:29 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: and/or die a gruesome death by females
[13/11/2011 4:07:33 PM] circe: so
[13/11/2011 4:07:36 PM] Sam Ravening: FLAW IN YOUR VIEWPOINTS THEN.
[13/11/2011 4:07:37 PM] circe: we're preying mantises?
[13/11/2011 4:07:39 PM] Sam Ravening: How about you?
[13/11/2011 4:07:52 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: I was talking about bees >.<
[13/11/2011 4:07:59 PM] PumpJack McGee: If we want to delve into that, we can.
[13/11/2011 4:08:12 PM] circe: I will admit that my feminism bells are sounding at an alarming rate over your observations, Jack
[13/11/2011 4:08:16 PM] Tim//Calabazal: I disagree, I'd love to have my own kid and raise him/her one day, hell I'd gladly even be a stay at home dad if it was more profitable.
[13/11/2011 4:08:28 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: the drone either gets to hump the queen and death by snoo snoo r being chased by the workers
[13/11/2011 4:09:00 PM] Sam Ravening: I'd just like to have a son as my heir and to pass my knowledge onto him. That's all.
[13/11/2011 4:09:15 PM] circe: Sam is living up to his genetic potential
[13/11/2011 4:09:18 PM] PumpJack McGee: Aye. They would. Because civil rights are a human development that arised with sentience and civilisation.
[13/11/2011 4:09:38 PM] Carnage Emperor Gulcasa: First thing I do with my son is pass the Klann tradition
[13/11/2011 4:09:42 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Exactly, I can't live forever, probably won't even get a chance to extend it, so I might as well pass my knowledge and genes onto the next generation and live a happy life.
[13/11/2011 4:09:51 PM] circe: Lol
[13/11/2011 4:09:56 PM] circe: I don't feel that way at all
[13/11/2011 4:09:57 PM] PumpJack McGee: And women's rights only came into action barely yesterday, on the relative scale of humanity's history.
[13/11/2011 4:10:11 PM] Sam Ravening: Lol.
[13/11/2011 4:10:20 PM] Sam Ravening: Reminds me of David Mitchell.
[13/11/2011 4:10:27 PM] circe: Women are the neck, that's all I'm sayin
[13/11/2011 4:10:29 PM] Sam Ravening: An idea that won't catch on. XD
[13/11/2011 4:10:56 PM] circe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxW_ZCd64tg
[13/11/2011 4:11:07 PM] PumpJack McGee: [November 13, 2011 4:10 PM] Sam Ravening:

<<< Reminds me of David Mitchell. Couldn't be more flattered.
[13/11/2011 4:11:27 PM] Sam Ravening: Knew you'd say something like that.
[13/11/2011 4:11:57 PM] PumpJack McGee: And don't misunderstand me, Circe. I'm by no means downplaying the importance of women.
[13/11/2011 4:12:11 PM] circe: Hail to the V
[13/11/2011 4:12:17 PM] PumpJack McGee: Afterall- we're a species who reproduce sexually.
[13/11/2011 4:12:25 PM] PumpJack McGee: Not one without the other.
[13/11/2011 4:12:48 PM] circe: I don't have any clear thoughts about it yet, Jack, so don't worry
[13/11/2011 4:13:12 PM] circe: Or rather, I am slightly offended but I'm not sure why and that would never lead to an intelligent response
[13/11/2011 4:13:23 PM] circe: So instead I post commercials about how powerful the vagina is
[13/11/2011 4:13:25 PM] circe: : )
[13/11/2011 4:13:33 PM] Sam Ravening: The annoying thing is...
[13/11/2011 4:13:43 PM] PumpJack McGee: I can see how one can get offended.
[13/11/2011 4:13:46 PM] Sam Ravening: If a man were to do the same thing about the penis...
[13/11/2011 4:13:53 PM] Sam Ravening: ...it would instantly get taken off the air.
[13/11/2011 4:13:53 PM] PumpJack McGee: Yep.
[13/11/2011 4:13:57 PM] circe: lol
[13/11/2011 4:14:16 PM] PumpJack McGee: That's another matter derivative of this topic.
[13/11/2011 4:14:34 PM] Sam Ravening: Yes...
[13/11/2011 4:14:41 PM] Sam Ravening: This opens a whole other door now.
[13/11/2011 4:14:53 PM | Edited 4:15:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: Actually- this is exactly proof of how novel the whole women's rights movement still is.
[13/11/2011 4:14:54 PM] circe: double standards abound
[13/11/2011 4:15:37 PM] circe: [November 13, 2011 3:56 PM] circe:

<<< I'm confused at how can forming emotional connections with a partner have something to do with being a mother and a caregiver.
[13/11/2011 4:15:40 PM] PumpJack McGee: Decades later, and we still argue about such things.
[13/11/2011 4:15:44 PM] circe: In the reference of today's world, at least
[13/11/2011 4:15:55 PM] circe: I mean, if I wanted
[13/11/2011 4:15:58 PM] circe: I can have a baby without you
[13/11/2011 4:16:09 PM] Tim//Calabazal: I wouldn't classify this as an argument, more a discussion
[13/11/2011 4:16:24 PM] PumpJack McGee: You know what I mean.
[13/11/2011 4:16:28 PM] circe: I don't
[13/11/2011 4:16:28 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Yeh, I do
[13/11/2011 4:16:37 PM] circe: Oh, that I do
[13/11/2011 4:16:39 PM] PumpJack McGee: It's a guy thing, CC.
[13/11/2011 4:16:42 PM | Edited 4:16:50 PM] circe: But not the other thing
[13/11/2011 4:16:44 PM] PumpJack McGee: Don't worry about it.
[13/11/2011 4:16:51 PM] PumpJack McGee: *pats head*
[13/11/2011 4:17:10 PM] circe: Lol, be glad I'm not within the proper distance to kick you in certain areas
[13/11/2011 4:17:13 PM] Sam Ravening: Lol.
[13/11/2011 4:17:30 PM] circe: I have the perfect boots for the job
[13/11/2011 4:17:30 PM] Sam Ravening: Traditional male response.
[13/11/2011 4:17:38 PM] PumpJack McGee: Why do you think I take advantage of the fact to say these things.
[13/11/2011 4:17:47 PM] Sam Ravening: "Don't you worry about a thing, dear, let me do the thinking for the both of us".
[13/11/2011 4:17:55 PM] PumpJack McGee: Haha.
[13/11/2011 4:17:56 PM] circe: Because on the day of my wedding you want it on film how many of those kicks I owe you?
[13/11/2011 4:18:12 PM] PumpJack McGee: I've had worse.
[13/11/2011 4:18:22 PM] circe: Doesn't make it hurt any less
[13/11/2011 4:18:34 PM] circe: Unless it's cutoff, like Melfy wants
[13/11/2011 4:18:44 PM] PumpJack McGee: I once got kicked about a dozen times in the nads with steel toed boots.
[13/11/2011 4:19:05 PM] PumpJack McGee: I didn't like highschool.
[13/11/2011 4:19:27 PM] Sam Ravening: Although you'd sound like you're from primary school after that.
[13/11/2011 4:19:50 PM] circe: oh I get it, it's when he was recording 100 ways
[13/11/2011 4:20:03 PM] PumpJack McGee: My balls were in a semi-liquid state for the following two months, yes.
[13/11/2011 4:20:43 PM] PumpJack McGee: Anyways- y'all know me by now. I don't mean anything I say until I do.
[13/11/2011 4:21:20 PM] circe: I wish I could find that clip about men blowdrying their perfumigated crotches...
[13/11/2011 4:21:32 PM] PumpJack McGee: What.
[13/11/2011 4:21:39 PM] Sam Ravening: Men?
[13/11/2011 4:21:45 PM] PumpJack McGee: What.
[13/11/2011 4:21:45 PM] Sam Ravening: Lil sissyboys?
[13/11/2011 4:21:49 PM] PumpJack McGee: What.
[13/11/2011 4:21:53 PM] Sam Ravening: Poofters?
[13/11/2011 4:22:02 PM] PumpJack McGee: Why.
[13/11/2011 4:22:15 PM] Sam Ravening: Because they're poofters?
[13/11/2011 4:22:25 PM] PumpJack McGee: But-
[13/11/2011 4:22:28 PM] PumpJack McGee: WHY
[13/11/2011 4:22:44 PM] circe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_-_AyjrPCY
[13/11/2011 4:22:47 PM] PumpJack McGee: No.
[13/11/2011 4:22:53 PM] circe: lol
[13/11/2011 4:23:23 PM] PumpJack McGee: I refuse to subject what little remains of my sanity to whatever lays within that link.
[13/11/2011 4:23:30 PM] Tim//Calabazal: ^
[13/11/2011 4:23:37 PM] Tim//Calabazal: TLDW(atch)
[13/11/2011 4:23:49 PM] PumpJack McGee: YOU CAN'T MAKE ME.
[13/11/2011 4:23:52 PM] circe: It in the first 1 minute that they talk about it, jeez
[13/11/2011 4:23:56 PM] PumpJack McGee: YOU'RE NOT MY MOM.
[13/11/2011 4:24:01 PM] Tim//Calabazal: XD
[13/11/2011 4:24:02 PM] circe: Yes, and I don't want to be
[13/11/2011 4:24:07 PM] circe: And that's the destruction of your argument
[13/11/2011 4:24:26 PM] PumpJack McGee: See- you and me don't count.
[13/11/2011 4:24:32 PM] Sam Ravening: She's your older, tough sister.
[13/11/2011 4:24:36 PM] Sam Ravening: How about that? XD
[13/11/2011 4:24:48 PM] GreenZero: Tim, Naruto?
[13/11/2011 4:25:01 PM] PumpJack McGee: What.
[13/11/2011 4:25:09 PM] Sam Ravening: LMAO.
[13/11/2011 4:25:15 PM] Sam Ravening: Trust Freddie.
[13/11/2011 4:25:33 PM] GreenZero: Huh?
[13/11/2011 4:25:41 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Sure, Let me just save.
[13/11/2011 4:25:57 PM] PumpJack McGee: What.
[13/11/2011 4:26:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: Darn you.
[13/11/2011 4:26:14 PM] PumpJack McGee: I was coherent for a bit.
[13/11/2011 4:26:34 PM] Sam Ravening: The way Freddie just skips over all of the conversation just to address the important thing of "Let's play Naruto". XD
[13/11/2011 4:27:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: I thought Naruto was a show.
[13/11/2011 4:27:10 PM] GreenZero: Also a game
[13/11/2011 4:27:15 PM | Edited 4:27:20 PM] GreenZero: several games
[13/11/2011 4:27:19 PM] PumpJack McGee: What.
[13/11/2011 4:27:25 PM] PumpJack McGee: Several.
[13/11/2011 4:27:29 PM] PumpJack McGee: Why.
[13/11/2011 4:27:38 PM] GreenZero: Cause the games are awesome
[13/11/2011 4:27:40 PM] GreenZero: that's why
[13/11/2011 4:27:53 PM] PumpJack McGee: ..
[13/11/2011 4:28:08 PM] PumpJack McGee: Back to topics of human evolution and sexism.
[13/11/2011 4:28:24 PM] GreenZero: [November 13, 2011 4:26 PM] Sam Ravening:

<<< The way Freddie just skips over all of the conversation just to address the important thing of "Let's play Naruto". XDLike I was gonna read through several hundreds messages
[13/11/2011 4:28:28 PM] GreenZero: psshh
[13/11/2011 4:28:33 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Tim//Calabazal leaves reality's problems for fun and laughter
[13/11/2011 4:28:33 PM] circe: I thought everyone had lost interest, lol
[13/11/2011 4:28:43 PM] Sam Ravening: Laters Tim.
[13/11/2011 4:28:48 PM] Sam Ravening: Don't lose too much.
[13/11/2011 4:28:49 PM] PumpJack McGee: Because I am such a bore.
[13/11/2011 4:28:51 PM] GreenZero: I was too busy playing LoL to be in the convo
[13/11/2011 4:29:04 PM] PumpJack McGee: Boring, boring ol' Jack.
[13/11/2011 4:29:16 PM] PumpJack McGee: Daffy old coot.
[13/11/2011 4:29:29 PM] GreenZero: You're a pretty hilarious guy to me Jack
[13/11/2011 4:29:31 PM] circe: I'm being told to hurry up and get naked so
[13/11/2011 4:29:34 PM] circe: y'know...
[13/11/2011 4:29:43 PM] Sam Ravening: Yeah.
[13/11/2011 4:29:45 PM] PumpJack McGee: And suddenly the topic can wait.
[13/11/2011 4:29:49 PM] Tim//Calabazal: Heh.
[13/11/2011 4:29:50 PM] Sam Ravening: Yeah.
[13/11/2011 4:30:08 PM] PumpJack McGee: Evolutionary urges compel me.
[13/11/2011 4:30:20 PM] PumpJack McGee: Have my babies.
[13/11/2011 4:30:41 PM] circe: They would turn out beautiful
[13/11/2011 4:30:43 PM] circe: But no thank you
[13/11/2011 4:30:59 PM] PumpJack McGee: Beautiful and strong and healthy and wise.
[13/11/2011 4:31:01 PM] GreenZero: Everyone wants Circe's babies