The Plot. The Art.

This is an argument that has always fascinated me, regardless of the genre. I'm very curious, because I've never really understood the logic behind it.

#1 I fap as long as the art is good.
#2 I fap to the plot.

Before I give my take on the thing, I'd like to hear the take of the people who agree with the two statements above.

https://www.fakku.net/manga/gkkmjk-gyaru-katekyo-maji-kawaii-english
https://www.fakku.net/manga/my-former-students-gyaru-debut-english
https://www.fakku.net/manga/chiguhagu-na-koi-demo-ii-kana-tte-english
https://www.fakku.net/manga/boku-dake-no-bitch-english
https://www.fakku.net/manga/black-community-service-japanese
https://www.fakku.net/manga/the-place-where-i-met-umi-english
https://www.fakku.net/manga/the-blonde-with-blue-eyes-and-the-tanuki-english
https://www.fakku.net/manga/sultry-days-english
Google: [Konchiki] Run Girl Run [English]

Tell me in your opinion what the best is. Not the most "omgdiabetes", but the most erotic/arousing/ work, and why. If it's the art, elaborate on that.

It's a hard choice as they are all fairly similar. But I'll go with "The Blonde with Blue Eyes and the Tanuki?" Third from the bottom on your list. I liked the art in most of them and the story in less. When I say "like" I'm talking about capability to masturbate to them. But regardless of that, the art is pretty good in most of them.

For me though, there's a lot that goes into whether I do or do not find a manga/doujinshi arousing as well as to what degree. Art and story are definitely factors though. And I can find the art not at all arousing for one but could still masturbate to it if other factors of it were arousing like story. (But I might imagine the other factors and story in my head without the art.) Although, I can masturbate without any material, so maybe that's why I can also do that. (I think most can, but some can't or never bother trying anyway.)

When I say various other factors I mean specific sex acts, objects, ideas, etc., being implemented. Those things aren't directly related to either art or story, at least not always.

Edit: I missed the part where you said to elaborate on the 'why'.

I normally don't masturbate when I dislike the art, but I can. I'll explain why the art can enhance the arousal level however. Men, regarding sexual arousal are more sight orientated. So for instance a drawing of a woman in an h-manga that has features one likes would be portrayed better in what they would call "Good art."

The thing is art can be objectively good or bad, art isn't objectively erotic. Some people dig ahegao and blowjob faces, others dig more relaxed faces still showing arousal. I don't really like authors going for slightly stylized art, adding tons of strong shading, wrinkles, and plenty background elements, let alone something like sweating like pigs. This is one of the reasons I'm more of a fan of somewhat older art, when they didn't have as many tools to add all that "junk". It could be the subtly train for non-h but it doesn't mean much to me.



And that's what I was trying to get at, which connects with your last paragraph.



Sight can be interpreted in many ways. Takayanagi Katsuya and Katagiri Hinoka. Most would say the former has got better art, but what I see is that both have good enough art to be enjoyable, past which I see I like the gyaru's looks in the latter way more, that there's more concrete action in the latter and thus I put art quality aside and go straight for Hinoka. I am usually more picky on plot points and sex acts -like you said- than art.



That's a tale I've heard but I never really believed it, sometimes it really does sound like denial. Many times it's easy to realize whether that story you're reading is good or not, the graphics are self-explanatory. Same for cgsets, there's always that particular scene that makes you figure out whether the thing has something negative going on. Sometimes you can be blindsided by text (as in you really need to know japanese), but the times where you can just tell by pictures are plenty.

What?

Who cares if it's "positive" or "negative"? And what does that even mean? I have a tankouban that's untranslated because it has some chapters with a futanari orgy in it.

Yeah, they're obviously enjoying themselves, but I would still like it even if they were clearly raping one of them.

I do, and I am pretty sure a lot of people do either, both in the positive and negative sense.



The "ignore the plot" is a comment that only appears with more darker stories where it's obvious what's going on, even without one word, it's thrown in your face. Like, she's being sexed by an old fart next to her husband in the bed, you really think I would fap to it just because I can't read "あなた、ごめんなさい…でも気持ちいっ" or something like that? You really need words to tell it's something wrong when "darling" is kissing her to go to work and the old fart (usually father/father-in-law) fondles her ass from behind?

It's different when you talk of something like this, it's very hard to guess she was a slut that was fooling him, could've been literally anything.
The opposite happened with another author, it went like this: guy comes back from work, finds gyaru girlfriend ready for sex, says something, next is she's crying and drinking next to a fat guy in a bar. Develops into sex. Assumed it was cheating like usual (drunk neglected woman has sex with college guy or whatever), and just moved on. Months later I stumbled across that same raw, I asked a translator about it, and I found out she was crying because the dude had just dumped her (iirc tired of her because sex-crazy). Then again, that "untranslated" comment never really appears with such stories, only when people complain about hardcore ones, so.



Yoshida Inuhito? I don't like how sometimes the eye placement and/or the whole heads warp all over the place, though some works are cool and I like how he designs the girls (I'm sucker for gals). I believe I liked some of the works from that tank. Are you sure the problem is futa? Like, it's not like there's a million scanlators willing to work on full books for free anymore. Times have changed, for the worse.

Not the point. The point is you could still theoretically fap to it, like I said earlier. You don't need to get a "positive vibe" (?) from something to fap to it; it just has to be arousing to you.



First off, I didn't say "ignore the plot", I said it isn't necessary. And from the sound of it, this is going to boil down to a kink argument. Just because you don't like the above situation doesn't mean someone else won't. Similarly, I can easily fap to that futa orgy scene, but plenty of other people wouldn't be able to because not everyone likes futa nor group scenes.


I could have phrased that a tiny bit better, but, no. I mean that I have a tankouban by Yoshida Inuhito because there are some futanari orgy scenes, despite it being untranslated. As in, the plot wasn't important to me and all I wanted/needed was the art for fap material. I believe at the time I dl'ed it there was no translation, but I was like "don't care, I want it".

"The thing is art can be objectively good or bad, art isn't objectively erotic. Some people dig ahegao and blowjob faces, others dig more relaxed faces still showing arousal. I don't really like authors going for slightly stylized art, adding tons of strong shading, wrinkles, and plenty background elements, let alone something like sweating like pigs. This is one of the reasons I'm more of a fan of somewhat older art, when they didn't have as many tools to add all that "junk". It could be the subtly train for non-h but it doesn't mean much to me." -Oeilvert



"Sight can be interpreted in many ways. Takayanagi Katsuya and Katagiri Hinoka. Most would say the former has got better art, but what I see is that both have good enough art to be enjoyable, past which I see I like the gyaru's looks in the latter way more, that there's more concrete action in the latter and thus I put art quality aside and go straight for Hinoka. I am usually more picky on plot points and sex acts -like you said- than art." -Oeilvert

Well, I'm not into sweating or wrinkles, unless it's important to the story. (If I like the story.) I got used to ahegao faces. My favorite faces are probably the blushing ones, personally. And I know blushing can communicate a lot of things other than attraction. I don't know, I just love that kind of face. (And it's hard to see in real life other than with makeup.) And what I meant by my last sentence in your last quote of me is: It can and often does depend on people's opinions of art and not the objective beauty of art. If you were to play a game, would it be one that is objectively good (Yet you don't care for.), or one that you personally liked? I would play the one I personally liked. Not that I specifically liked the art in any of the Manga more than others (excluding a few), it was a combination of many factors, including story. (Which was cute, like with most of them.)

And yes, I'm aware I could have connected my sentences better, I wasn't trying to be paragraphically correct. Maybe it's not a word, but oh well. I'm sure you know what I meant.

Oh, and I agree with 623 to a degree. If I can masturbate using my imagination, then of course I could masturbate to good art with no story. And certainly I could be aroused by art alone. As I also have masturbation material like photos and pictures. Photos taken in real life and stand-alone drawings without any dialogue.

Well, yes. I'm not a fan of any author in particular, not even the most popular. They may have that work I like a lot but it happens quite rarely. You mentioned blushes, so I guess you like Moketa? Does nothing to me, I find the art adorable. Toruneko? Lots of buzz around the name, the faces he draws don't affect me (if anything I don't like his blowjob faces), a shame but that's how it is. My qualm is with how people unanimously jump at x-name or y-name even when the content -art aside- looks nothing impressive (like...half a page of paizuri and three pages of missionary).



Depends on the type of game, if I ask for good porn or a good read. If it's the former, sometimes I don't even bother with the whole experience, I look at the cast and go "okay, that girl strikes my fancy, what kind of route is she involved in? Sounds fine, I'm in". Then, it's up to what kind of scenes is she in, if they're good enough. I'd rather go back to something I wholly liked rather than something I forced myself to like in the first place.



Sometimes still pictures can tell a story of their own though, with hentai especially. It's one thing to enjoy a sexual pose or just a pose with no context, another to pretend a context is not there even though it totally is. Even a picture with no text nor background can tell a story depending on the characters involved in it.

"Sometimes still pictures can tell a story of their own though, with hentai especially. It's one thing to enjoy a sexual pose or just a pose with no context, another to pretend a context is not there even though it totally is. Even a picture with no text nor background can tell a story depending on the characters involved in it." -Oeilvert

It can, but I'm not masturbating to it because of the story. I'll give you an example: https://www.castellanocosmeticsurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/brazilian-butt-lift.png

In that photo, there is a butt, the person appears, to be on the beach and has some kind of bikini on. Why would I masturbate to it? Because I like the butt, not because the person with it appears to be on the beach or that they are wearing a bikini or why any of this is taking place. Though I do like bikinis and panties in terms of arousal, so I'll give a different example photo: http://www.hot.ag/HotGirlAss/Hot%20Sexy%20Naked%20Ass.jpg

The point is, there's other things in the photos and more to it than the butts and figures in these photos, but I've masturbated to photos similar to these just for the butts and figures. (And skin, I guess.) Even without thinking up a story in my head. Though I don't really do that anymore, it doesn't mean I can't, or that I wouldn't want to.

And about the blushing faces, that's a personal arousal thing for me. I don't know how common that particular one is, but I have many, many more kinks. (Kink may not be the right word, but you get the idea I'm sure.) Though it's one of my stronger ones. It's also cute, but that's part of why it's arousing to me. (Mostly just in fiction though.) Similar to how I like small butts in a way, because they are cute. It's not the same as little puppy cute. There's lots of categories of cuteness in my mind.

I think overall I'm a mix between you and the people you directed your question towards. Because I don't HAVE to like the art to masturbate to it. But it's an awesome bonus and something I can masturbate to alone if I wanted to. (Art I like.) I guess I got bored of having no story. Either that or after getting into story driven material meant for arousal I noticed I enjoyed it more. (Or at least creating somewhat of a story in my mind out of what I see.)

Oh, and one last thing. I would only have to ignore story if the story deterred arousal. That's more than just not arousing you, it takes away arousal and makes you to busy thinking about something off-topic. Off-topic in consideration of your goal too masturbate I mean. I rarely find that in stories, but I also have a very wide array of turn-ons and very few turn-offs. Vanilla, forced, twisted as fuck story, strange as fuck story, cute as fuck story, morbid as fuck story, taboo as fuck story, etcetera., are all things I would not feel at all turned off by and probably turned on by depending on specifics of the stories. But art that I like and colored Manga/Doujinshi usually turn me on more than ones that don't have those factors in their favor.

Haven't read the previous responses.

Good plot (not capitalized) should make you feel close to the characters or maybe relate to them in some way. In some ways it could be regarded as passionate. (Deliberately vague)

Good art = oh shit that pussy looks great, I'd tap that.

I just enjoy hentai.
If it has a good plot, then it's great.
If it has good art, then it's great too.
If it has both then it just gets even greater.

Well i can't choose on that one cause' you kno. Having good plot but bad art feels like boring to me and having good art but bad plot the art is wasted

With an answer like this, sounds like you missed the point.

Words are booster to what you see (in a situation favorable to you), and let's say what you see has got great art but a woman making a lot of poses and faces for 8 pages, then hardly any fellatio, a panel of paizuri, and 3 pages of missionary and/or doggy to finish. That's it, no fancy action of any other kind, not even x-ray nakadashi. Is that work appealing just because it's got oscar writing and good art?

I can live with that. In fact, I think I've enjoyed many works that fit that description. Some have good dialogue, and some more have good plot altogether with an artsyle that doesn't appeal that much to me.
Just so you know, back then I enjoyed Fuuga's works for the first time without even fapping to them because the stories were good.

To be honest, that's asking too much.

Of coure. At least to me.

As I said, I learned to enjoy everything, even works that have weak plot or weak art. If that's not the point you were making, then nevermind.

I meant it more straightforward and simple. By 'a picture can tell a story' I meant 'anime girl from xshow with faceless dude'. There's no plot, you can still wonder 'why not the protag?'. It's different than an erotic pose of a woman on her own.



The point was over here



I see a girl whose design I dig, I'd like to see some kissing, her licked all over, fondled, groped, some nipple pinching and sucking, licking, her giving fellatio (or something), getting blown in the face or mouth, paizuri, her getting sexed in various positions, maybe anal. Said like this seems "is that it?" but it's rare to find authors that have that kind of complete nukige approach, they either live off their art or just don't care. You could argue it's because of the page limit, but some can't even do it in a whole tank, or if they do it's sloppy or there's too little of it. Some can't even draw good blowjobs let alone kissing . You draw a woman with big tits, there's hardly any paizuri or even some sucking, big ass but nothing is done with it. That is the reason why I absolutely love Oppai Kaijuu Akanegon, because it puts Kloah art and his magnificent huge tits in a perfect nukige setting, in color. She looks great, there's all the time and the pages to deliver everything I want to see.

I agree with what you say, but I still don't get your exact point.

I see a work from an artist everyone goes crazy about. The scenario I like, the girl I like, I see the action and it's limited, weak, sloppy or just poorly delivered. I usually move on without looking back, I'd rather find the works from that author that fully deliver and keep them around than force me through a half-assed fap.

Recent example? The very latest Napata from youknowwhere. The girl is my perfect ideal of how a Napata female should look like (which is great because I was starting to hate the sameface, the samehair and the samebody), the art is strong like usual. The work itself? ~11/22 pages of nothing, way too many long interruptions during sex (this is why I never go through entire tanks), whenever he tries a new pose it cuts off right there so there's no build-up, no momentum, the camera during the first sex is so bad it almost feels like smut (if you count 018 as part of the sex, you see their privates joined once in 4 pages total, 4 times total in the whole story if you exclude anal, and even if you add it it's only five times more), the skinship is there but it's way too little (three scattered panels, two are groping), she blows him in one panel (w0w), barely any visible kissing and it looks like arse. The best bet is wait for uncensored scans and enjoy the anal, I guess.

Am I being hypercritical? Likely. When this gets uploaded here by Fakku Books or somewhere else and people start freaking out, I still don't think I'm gonna share their enthusiasm because with the above paragraph I described you how I feel about it (tl;dr barely worth literally one fap), I am disappointed as it's rare for authors to draw girls as great as she looks like, and yet the action is -to say the least- underwhelming. It's not like the plot needed 10 pages to take off either, there is no excuse in my opinion.

I feel like plot is an overstatement. I like some character, but not necessarily a whole elaborate setting. Its not some deep thing either, just something to fap to. Art is more of a necessity imo though.

Oh, I see. Well it has happened to me too, some good looking girls and good art, but barely no action and just focusing too much on the dialogue/plot. When that happens I just enjoy it without having to actually fapping to it. It's just 20 pages most of the cases after all. Besides there are some details who can make up for a half assed sex scene (the way the hair is shown during, focus on other body parts, the expressions, etc). Not everything needs penetration to be erotic.
As I said, I learned to enjoy almost everything.
Also, it depends if the dialogue is necesary or not. Some works need context. I mentioned Fuuga, another example is one of my favorite artists, Takenoko Seijin, I can say I have barely fapped to his works. Shiawase Shoujo is a good tank that focuses in both the dialogue/context and the sex scenes.
Of course there will be some with unnecesary dialogue, but other works from the same tank/magazine can make up for that. There's a lot to choose. I don't think it's something to be so disappointed about.


Well, it will be just one chapter in an entire tank/magazine, so much likely those people will have a lot to fap to if what was uploaded that moment doesn't do the thing.

It's not about too much dialogue, even works with little to no plot (referring back to Napata, he's never very wordy, compared to most other colleagues he's got so little words and the japanese is so easy you can cook a script up in minutes or very few hours). There totally are several instances of authors that in 20-24-28 pages have done quite a lot of stuff, and names (even ones specialized in hardcore) who don't really care. We're well into 2015 and This is Very Frustrating to me has not been topped by a long shot. I'm not sure if that's great or sad.

I agree you can still make it work it if the girl is well drawn, expressions, details etc. but it won't last, it hardly ever leaves a lasting impression, it's more of a 'let's squeeze a fap out of this thing and move on'. I never felt like that's a good approach.





I don't know. I've seen works with 'muh plot' that were quite limited porn, and actual nukige porn that people 'meh-ed' about. Never made sense to me. I just look at the scenario: are there people I'm fine with? Okay. What's the girl like? I like her. That's it, then I proceed to see what the offer is. Words to me tend to be a minus more often than not.



Again, nothing to do with the plot. Words are not to blame you find 5 pages of blowjobs or 2 of paizuri in a 200p tank, so to speak. In terms of sheer number of authors, sure, there's variety and some deliver, in terms of single names well, depends.

It's a problem for me, and the reason I will never have a favorite author. If I happen to find that work by that author, I cherish it and whenever more from that artist comes up, I end up going 'eeeh, that older story was better at this and that' and eventually go back to it. Happens with eroge as well by the way. I could never be a good customer to most japanese authors, that's for sure.



And still that depends on what the tank is going to be like. I never agreed to the 'go straight through the tank' concept, because as focused as I can be, I'm going to find the weak link and lose interest.