What is true manliness does it truly even exist at all?

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Manliness to me is doing the things you want to do despite what people thinks and then take responsibility for it.
For Example: Oh crap,I got my girl preggers
Manly thing to do: Be there for her and provide child support should marriage is not in any plans
Not so manly: Keep saying "I never tapped that".
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caesarott wrote...
If this is the case, I would say that the behavioural traits of a man would constitute that, like aggressiveness, being physically strong, inclination to take charge so and so for.


By this definition every bodybuilder would be manlier than the bravest soldier. Also, unprovoked phsyical aggressiveness is anything but manly. Almost all warrior codices that ever existed held honor and respect even towards the opponent in very high regard. Physical fitness is certainly a very important aspect in the way to manliness, because it teaches self-discipline and self-control, but it's not its goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuERSRNKZXM

caesarott wrote...
Women can't take up that role because I believe these societies want to protect these women as that they can reproduce. A medieval way of division of labour I would say.


How often is a woman unable to work because of pregnancy? 1-2 months in a year? In the medieval age especially women and children used to work. The "housewife" role came only in existance in the 20th century, when because of economic development a single job was able to provide for the entire family. The working proletariat of the 19th century was as female as it was male.
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True manliness is a defintion, that's all it is.

If you define true manliness as being able to wear pink shirts when you're straight then that's true manliness for you.
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VexilloidPalaiologos wrote...
caesarott wrote...
If this is the case, I would say that the behavioural traits of a man would constitute that, like aggressiveness, being physically strong, inclination to take charge so and so for.


By this definition every bodybuilder would be manlier than the bravest soldier. Also, unprovoked phsyical aggressiveness is anything but manly. Almost all warrior codices that ever existed held honor and respect even towards the opponent in very high regard. Physical fitness is certainly a very important aspect in the way to manliness, because it teaches self-discipline and self-control, but it's not its goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuERSRNKZXM

caesarott wrote...
Women can't take up that role because I believe these societies want to protect these women as that they can reproduce. A medieval way of division of labour I would say.


How often is a woman unable to work because of pregnancy? 1-2 months in a year? In the medieval age especially women and children used to work. The "housewife" role came only in existance in the 20th century, when because of economic development a single job was able to provide for the entire family. The working proletariat of the 19th century was as female as it was male.


I do not know what is meant by "manliness" so I am going by the stereotype of masculinity which is unfortunately whatever I have said. If that means a stereotypical bodybuilder looks more masculine than a worn-out soldier then so be it.

Whatever I have said applies in an ancient patriarchal society when technology is backward, not in modern societies, not in a communist societies. You don't send your women to battlefields to be slaughtered or to do back-breaking labour unless you really have to. And the period of gestation is 9 months a year, the last I have checked.

I did not mean picking up a fight for no good reason when I said "aggressiveness". I apologise for the wrong use of the word. What I meant was being more active or opposed to being passive.
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caesarott wrote...
You don't send your women to... do back-breaking labour unless you really have to. And the period of gestation is 9 months a year, the last I have checked.


You do realize that pregnancy does not inhibit a woman's ability to work up until the last few months? Google "the role of women in medieval society".
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Manliness has some pretty good definitions out there, namely centering around the concept of a selfless person who is able to not only take, but carry through responsibilities no matter the circumstance.

The problem is that we're assumed they've all disappeared because manliness usually comes in the woefully inadequate visual-metaphor form.
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What if true manliness is really unreachable? and we are but only "boys"
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Masculinity could be considered an illusion, but when so many are convinced of it's existence and power, does it not make you want to be able to claim it for yourself nonetheless?
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Kamina is the true definition of manliness...
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Manliness is just being able to be true to oneself. By that I mean that someone manly will first accept what he is, then if he finds himself in the wrong he will try get right, and if he finds the world is wrong, he will express his way of thinking, try to make the world better, and never back down unless he is proven wrong.
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gizgal wrote...
Masculine and feminine are constructs.

There is no innate performative behavior for either sex.


This. [size=14]This[/h]. This. This. [size=20]This[/h]. [size=22]This[/h]. This.

The definition of "manly" has changed throughout history and will continue to change in the future. Every homo sapien with the Y chromosome can be considered a "man", but "manly" is a social construct.
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Being Manly means you can take full responsibility for yourself.
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gizgal wrote...
Masculine and feminine are constructs.

There is no innate performative behavior for either sex.


Human Experimentation is of course very not allowed, but if it were, I do think that different patterns would emerge amongst the sexes. Just throwing anthropological stuff around, again- with proof of the entirety of human history.

Before you decry me for being sexist- I'm not saying that one is superior to the other, but that yes- there are differences, and that we are not homogeneous, with only society and upbringing to distinguish one another.
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PumpJack McGee wrote...
gizgal wrote...
Masculine and feminine are constructs.

There is no innate performative behavior for either sex.


Human Experimentation is of course very not allowed, but if it were, I do think that different patterns would emerge amongst the sexes. Just throwing anthropological stuff around, again- with proof of the entirety of human history.

Before you decry me for being sexist- I'm not saying that one is superior to the other, but that yes- there are differences, and that we are not homogeneous, with only society and upbringing to distinguish one another.




I don't think that's sexist.
Yes, biological differences exist, but for almost all of life, they don't determine personal qualities or behavior beyond a small degree.
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True manliness to me isn't something associated with looks. The fact that different things look good for different cultures for guys proves this. Compare Bishi vs. American movie guy. Angular and youthful features vs chiseled and rough features. Culture generally attributes different features to "good looking"

Being manly I think would mean that one is a good and honest person. That will stick up for what he believes in and tries his best even if the end result is a failure. Maybe :P. It is really hard to define Manliness. But I'd like to think that these things are a universal.
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I believe True manliness is when a man has strong beliefs and a strong sense of morality and is capable to handle his own shit, a man who doesn't let trivial shit get to him, a man who is able to face forward without being blocked with life's challenges, a man who is able to protect those who're close to him. sometimes "manliness" can mean the strong and dominant personality of a man.

also a true man doesn't cry when misfortune befalls him, instead, he takes action to resolve it.
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