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Personally I find life incredibly interesting, the opportunity to meet people I don't know who are different from me, limitless knowledge in an ever expanding observable universe that far out-stretch my ability to take in, the uncertain future that will never be fully within my own ability to predict, the ability to alter the affects of time on this world in my own small way from one small good deed to raising a child who will be so much more than myself (Child part is a fantasy in every way). I love life, and if I could, I probably (probably, internally contested subject) would, in my selfishness, give into the temptation of eternal life, fully understanding the things I would be giving up in exchange for being able to continue watching humans, and whatever else may exist in the universe.[/quote]
I couldn't disagree more. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what do you mean by your concept of immortality, whether it's a physical or spiritual existence. If it's the latter, than you seem to have bashed against my pre-emptive strike: it seems like a higher form of existence.
I'm trying to end the discussion but this may be slightly aggresive towards your idea and here goes my view on immortality: I don't believe anyone who truly loves life can want to be immortal. The way I see it, if you want to become one with the Universe or get to Heaven or whatever it may be, then you don't truly love life. It seems like the only reason you breathe, the only reason you share a sunset with a loved one is to entertain yourself until the real show - it's as if live is a movie theatre and you're just watching the trailers. It's one of questions that puts a dent in the concept of afterlife and Heaven: Why live now, when you can live much better later?
I prefer to think of life as a party. No one can stay there forever, eventually you have to leave knowing that the party will go on and new people will get a spot on the dance floor. The best you can hope for is that you'll be remembered for contributing to the fun instead of spoiling anyone's mood or being the sullen, awkward person sitting in a corner.
I couldn't disagree more. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what do you mean by your concept of immortality, whether it's a physical or spiritual existence. If it's the latter, than you seem to have bashed against my pre-emptive strike: it seems like a higher form of existence.
I'm trying to end the discussion but this may be slightly aggresive towards your idea and here goes my view on immortality: I don't believe anyone who truly loves life can want to be immortal. The way I see it, if you want to become one with the Universe or get to Heaven or whatever it may be, then you don't truly love life. It seems like the only reason you breathe, the only reason you share a sunset with a loved one is to entertain yourself until the real show - it's as if live is a movie theatre and you're just watching the trailers. It's one of questions that puts a dent in the concept of afterlife and Heaven: Why live now, when you can live much better later?
I prefer to think of life as a party. No one can stay there forever, eventually you have to leave knowing that the party will go on and new people will get a spot on the dance floor. The best you can hope for is that you'll be remembered for contributing to the fun instead of spoiling anyone's mood or being the sullen, awkward person sitting in a corner.
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nateriver10 wrote...
bakapink wrote...
Personally I find life incredibly interesting, the opportunity to meet people I don't know who are different from me, limitless knowledge in an ever expanding observable universe that far out-stretch my ability to take in, the uncertain future that will never be fully within my own ability to predict, the ability to alter the affects of time on this world in my own small way from one small good deed to raising a child who will be so much more than myself (Child part is a fantasy in every way). I love life, and if I could, I probably (probably, internally contested subject) would, in my selfishness, give into the temptation of eternal life, fully understanding the things I would be giving up in exchange for being able to continue watching humans, and whatever else may exist in the universe.I couldn't disagree more. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what do you mean by your concept of immortality, whether it's a physical or spiritual existence. If it's the latter, than you seem to have bashed against my pre-emptive strike: it seems like a higher form of existence.
I would presume eternal life would indicate "Fountain of Youth" or similar conceptualizations, not of a higher "god like". A continuation of "life" without expiration is all I envisioned when I made my statement.
nateriver10 wrote...
I'm trying to end the discussion but this may be slightly aggresive towards your idea and here goes my view on immortality: I don't believe anyone who truly loves life can want to be immortal. The way I see it, if you want to become one with the Universe or get to Heaven or whatever it may be, then you don't truly love life. It seems like the only reason you breathe, the only reason you share a sunset with a loved one is to entertain yourself until the real show - it's as if live is a movie theatre and you're just watching the trailers. It's one of questions that puts a dent in the concept of afterlife and Heaven: Why live now, when you can live much better later?I clarified your misunderstandings while trying to make my statements as conclusive as possible.
-A clinging nature can't be derived out of a love for, to you? For me, this doesn't seem like a illogical follow, to the extent described in the previous sentence.
-A desire to see how humanity, as a whole, can advance into the future implies a "lack of love" to you? After looking at history up to today (covered as far as 3000 and Gilgamesh), it makes me curious what the next 3000 years will be like. When I think of the advancements we will never have but the future will, and longing to be in that time line in the slightest. Knowing that they will have answers to questions that will never be answered in our life time. I lack a love for life because I have an interest in these things? Sorry but I completely disagree.
-Are you assuming I want some "Heaven" or some other spiritual thing? I stated I want everything that can be obtained on this planet (for the greater part), through life.
-The "deriving entertainment out of life" is not wrong (I do, do this), but it is not the only thing derived. I simply would rather enjoy whatever I experience, and I am happy that I can experience it, my life is a life only I can live. I don't see a problem with enjoying it.
-Those I occupy around me do inadvertently entertain me, never thought badly of this, people who "bore me" bore me (which is rare), people who "interest me" interest me. Never thought I was bad for feeling this way.
-The "only reason I continue to exist as a human", is to experience what it is to be human in every means I am capable of doing so in. I would think my paragraph about how I love life gave rise to this...
I said probably twice to indicate it's a consideration, not a given, let alone a choice I have a definite intention to make. Simply that, for the reasons I listed, I have considered this option despite being fully aware of what I'd lose as a human being by becoming a immortal.
You seem to have a misunderstanding...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebirth_(Buddhism)
"Rebirth is conditioned by the karmas (actions of body, speech and mind) of previous lives; good karmas will yield a happier rebirth, bad karmas will produce one which is more unhappy"
You don't just "die" into a better life, you have to earn it in the previous (current) life.
nateriver10 wrote...
I prefer to think of life as a party. No one can stay there forever, eventually you have to leave knowing that the party will go on and new people will get a spot on the dance floor. The best you can hope for is that you'll be remembered for contributing to the fun instead of spoiling anyone's mood or being the sullen, awkward person sitting in a corner.I prefer to go through life paying attention to everything around me, often times leads me to distance myself to escape from my bias. I Try to not make a mess. Learning from what I can, and contributing to others when I can. Making companions who can make up for what I lack, who can help me along my path and vice verse. Always moving forward, progressing into a better me than I once was. Attempting to push those I care for, forward into a positive, less destructive, direction.
I don't see life as "party", where it is simply fun and games that are left to the next generation to clean up when it reaches its limit.
You seem to constantly come to some type of conclusion that I am religious, and seeking death. So I'll clarify. I am an Agnostic, who are technically an atheist. I have no god or religion. What I believe in is empirical evidence, fact. I entertain thoughts on philosophy and religion, but I never assume either of them to be fact.
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"I don't see life as "party", where it is simply fun and games that are left to the next generation to clean up when it reaches its limit."
That is quite a little argumenttive poke. It undermines my point in a very subtle way. Let's just say that fun is a metaphor to sustaning the continuation of our species, make works of art, save people's lives, cure a disease, and so on.
"You seem to constantly come to some type of conclusion that I am religious, and seeking death. So I'll clarify. I am an Agnostic, who are technically an atheist. I have no god or religion. What I believe in is empirical evidence, fact. I entertain thoughts on philosophy and religion, but I never assume either of them to be fact."
Not at all. Quite the contrary. It seems like most people here are atheists so I've decided I don't need to be careful with religion here. I know you are agnostic, which is a designation I do not agree with, but you are interested in the concept of afterlife which is undeniably a spiritual concept. You can't say that you believe in the afterlife, keep mentioning Buddhism (which I don't understand the reason for) and expect me to keep a straight face after you say "What I believe in is empirical evidence, fact." Not to say that I'm laughing but I do get a slight twitch on my eyebrows.
As I've said before, I don't think I fully understand what's your point on afterlife. Either I understood it and you are just ignoring my arguments or I misunderstood it and something got lost along the way. I think it's a little of both. I do think I misunderstood something but I also think my main point stands: there's no reason to believe it. You can want it, wish for it all you want, but rationally, there is no reason for it.
If I understood it, I would say your concept seems much better from religious ideas on afterlife (I love Evangelion, for example, which has an interesting take on afterlife, albeit with a slight twist) but from a scientific point of view, I find it, as I've said, wishy-washy and I maintain that any idea of it underapreciates life. I think that you're not saying "This is my view". I get the feeling you are saying "This is what I want".
That is quite a little argumenttive poke. It undermines my point in a very subtle way. Let's just say that fun is a metaphor to sustaning the continuation of our species, make works of art, save people's lives, cure a disease, and so on.
"You seem to constantly come to some type of conclusion that I am religious, and seeking death. So I'll clarify. I am an Agnostic, who are technically an atheist. I have no god or religion. What I believe in is empirical evidence, fact. I entertain thoughts on philosophy and religion, but I never assume either of them to be fact."
Not at all. Quite the contrary. It seems like most people here are atheists so I've decided I don't need to be careful with religion here. I know you are agnostic, which is a designation I do not agree with, but you are interested in the concept of afterlife which is undeniably a spiritual concept. You can't say that you believe in the afterlife, keep mentioning Buddhism (which I don't understand the reason for) and expect me to keep a straight face after you say "What I believe in is empirical evidence, fact." Not to say that I'm laughing but I do get a slight twitch on my eyebrows.
As I've said before, I don't think I fully understand what's your point on afterlife. Either I understood it and you are just ignoring my arguments or I misunderstood it and something got lost along the way. I think it's a little of both. I do think I misunderstood something but I also think my main point stands: there's no reason to believe it. You can want it, wish for it all you want, but rationally, there is no reason for it.
If I understood it, I would say your concept seems much better from religious ideas on afterlife (I love Evangelion, for example, which has an interesting take on afterlife, albeit with a slight twist) but from a scientific point of view, I find it, as I've said, wishy-washy and I maintain that any idea of it underapreciates life. I think that you're not saying "This is my view". I get the feeling you are saying "This is what I want".
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It was mentioned that our consciousness is a projection of our brain. Firstly, can I please ask for why that is an accepted fact here, and secondly, if it is true, then the moment our brain dies, we would feel dead. Dementia, and other brain related illnesses messes with the brain, and so, the persons consciousness also screws up. If this is all true, then the only answer is that there is nothing after death. According to my own theory of time, where time is still, and the consciousness is the constant, then you would still live, just without a consciousness and thus cannot experience time, making you a non-living organism in the world. In fact, true death should only be the inability to move through time anymore, thus, you cannot have a conscience.
Therefore, being scared of pain of death is irrational, however, fearing that you would unable to experience anymore life is rational. Personally, I don't care about death - there is 0 evidence for what comes after. In fact, of every day you are conscious of, you are alive. So when you die, you wouldnt know, and no matter the time period, you would still alive.
Therefore, being scared of pain of death is irrational, however, fearing that you would unable to experience anymore life is rational. Personally, I don't care about death - there is 0 evidence for what comes after. In fact, of every day you are conscious of, you are alive. So when you die, you wouldnt know, and no matter the time period, you would still alive.
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In my position in my life I wouldn't care if my life was taken or not. But I am trying to make things better and maybe I can find a reason to be scared. Then i'll know that I actually have someone to live for. In short: Nope.
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Nope, because I know that nothing will matter anymore. Fearing to lose my life while I'm alive would be rendered irrelevant if I were cease existing. It doesn't matter how many people would be affected by my death if I no longer were conscious.
Of course, I don't want to die, and my insticts would probably make me fear death once in a dangerous situation, but at this moment I cannot say I fear death.
Of course, I don't want to die, and my insticts would probably make me fear death once in a dangerous situation, but at this moment I cannot say I fear death.
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I do not wish to die by another person's hand, that would be the only death I fear. Especially if I cannot at least first either look them in the eye or take them down with me. If it is a natural death due to old age, sickness, apocalypse ect. and is out of my control, I am not afraid.
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tswarthog
The Iconoclast
While I am not fearful of death in terms of my own decisions or actions in life I do fear death that is evoked by a third party.
If I have ever had one life goal that I will always remember each and every day I wake up, it's to ensure I am doing everything in my power to prevent someone else's poor decision from resulting in my demise.
If I have ever had one life goal that I will always remember each and every day I wake up, it's to ensure I am doing everything in my power to prevent someone else's poor decision from resulting in my demise.
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I am not afraid of death. I am however afraid of dying. The act of dying itself scares me, like the thought of being burned alive or drowning or falling out of an airplane with no parachute. Also the unknown after death scares me. Not knowing what comes after I am gone is kinda unnerving. But death itself, not so much.
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Legless Lego Legolas wrote...
I am not afraid of death. I am however afraid of dying. The act of dying itself scares me, like the thought of being burned alive or drowning or falling out of an airplane with no parachute. Also the unknown after death scares me. Not knowing what comes after I am gone is kinda unnerving. But death itself, not so much.You kinda cutting around the edges there, don't you think? Dying and the afterlife (or lack of it) are both huge aspects of death. I don't see how you could be afraid of them, but not death. It's like saying you're afraid of drowning but not swimming in the ocean.
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Well, that's not really the death itself which is scary but what it means : leaving the people you love behind for example. Which may be scary is also the way you die.
Because i know i will make my family and my friends sad i'm afraid of diying. If they wasn't there, i wouldn't be afraid... I think. I have a reason to live so yeah i'm scared.
Because i know i will make my family and my friends sad i'm afraid of diying. If they wasn't there, i wouldn't be afraid... I think. I have a reason to live so yeah i'm scared.
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I do not fear the death of this vessel as much as I fear for those who it would affect. From my experiences I have never once worried about the death of my body, but more of those I protect and take care of. I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, bludgeoned, and eletricuted. I have tried to end the life of this body as well as had other try to end it. Even in all that I never once fear the ceasing of my heart beat or my thoughts. My soul will go on and inhabit another vessel and continue the cycle. The part that has always given me will even after I attempted to end my life was the realization that while living those around me need me and I need them. I may never encounter their souls again in another life. I may never get to embrace them again. Though that is a thought of the body I still feels its want and needs just and I feel my souls. The answer to the question of whether I fear death is -- yes, I fear it more than anything, not for myself I can take the pain, I can let go of what I have not completed, but I cannot bare the thought of the people who I met going away, even the ones I hate.
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Yea I'd say I am, but that's not to say I wont embrace it when it does come.
My mate recently had a bad motorcycle crash, very nearly died, and he says from what he remembers, it felt like a dream. Makes me wonder if every type of death would feel this way.
My mate recently had a bad motorcycle crash, very nearly died, and he says from what he remembers, it felt like a dream. Makes me wonder if every type of death would feel this way.
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Yes I am but I'm more afraid of being alone in this world.
I am a Christian but sometimes I think what if there is no God and this is all there is. I guess my faith is not strong enough.
Anyway nothing last forever, We all have to accept that. Sooner or later we all leave this world. Worrying about death too much will just cause depression. What we can do now is just to enjoy each day and live your life at best.
I am a Christian but sometimes I think what if there is no God and this is all there is. I guess my faith is not strong enough.
Anyway nothing last forever, We all have to accept that. Sooner or later we all leave this world. Worrying about death too much will just cause depression. What we can do now is just to enjoy each day and live your life at best.
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Yes, because i think i still have much to do. I would hate to die now, and lose all the possibilities, chances, futures...
Mr Grim, wait a bit will ya?
Mr Grim, wait a bit will ya?
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"If a man says he is not afraid of dying, he is either lying or is a Gurkha."
To be quite honest, it's not the thought of death that scares me. If I die, so be it. Not like I can complain about it (hah). What scares me is what I would leave behind after I die (about 300 Gb of "Dear god, what is THAT"... haha). What would my legacy be, what would I be remembered for, what else will happen in the world after I die. It's that fear that motivates me to be cautious, in order to live as long as I can, to see as much as I can before my time. I don't focus on what I will become (physically, mentally, spiritually, etc) after I die, just what will continue to exist/ come into existence after.
To be quite honest, it's not the thought of death that scares me. If I die, so be it. Not like I can complain about it (hah). What scares me is what I would leave behind after I die (about 300 Gb of "Dear god, what is THAT"... haha). What would my legacy be, what would I be remembered for, what else will happen in the world after I die. It's that fear that motivates me to be cautious, in order to live as long as I can, to see as much as I can before my time. I don't focus on what I will become (physically, mentally, spiritually, etc) after I die, just what will continue to exist/ come into existence after.
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Obviously.
I am going to be trying to stay alive as long as possible, if at all possible even attempt to go for eternal youth (loli). Was thinking that full body replacement would be cool.
I am going to be trying to stay alive as long as possible, if at all possible even attempt to go for eternal youth (loli). Was thinking that full body replacement would be cool.
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glassesRcute
Drakengardian
There's a lot of things to be afraid of. Death is one of them. However, it's how you react to that fear that matters. My reaction is to make my time in the world of the living worth it before I end up six feet under. Reaching out to people, creating a memorable project, having fun, etc.
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No, I'm not afraid of death. I don't mean to sound depressing, but death is the only thing that's certain for every single human being. It's a natural process and it happens to everybody at some point. Of course a sudden, premature death is really unfortunate, but I don't go about my days afraid that I'll die. Since I'm not religious I'm not afraid of whether I'll be going to heaven or hell, which is another reason why I don't fear death. I just sort of imagine I'll die of old age and just slip away into nothingness.