Nergal going to prison?
0
Sorry this might be old news to some but not to me at least. Metal Sucks article
How many of you think he should go behind bars for this?
Does this bring up any other thoughts on 'crazy' stage performances that you think should've been dealt with?
How many of you think he should go behind bars for this?
Does this bring up any other thoughts on 'crazy' stage performances that you think should've been dealt with?
0
Nashrakh
Little White Butterflies Staff
Now that was just ridiculous.
I am more offended by bands that have animal heads as stage decoration. Going to prison for stating your opinion - where the hell are we?
I am more offended by bands that have animal heads as stage decoration. Going to prison for stating your opinion - where the hell are we?
0
[size=10]"Nergal has been formally charged with insulting Roman Catholics after he called the Catholic Church “the most murderous cult on the planet” and destroyed a copy of the Bible on-stage during a 2007 concert (video above)"[/h]
The above text, quoted from the article provided, is something to consider before flat out saying "No".
Like the American flag (as well as any other flags), the bible is something that people value and hold highly. Of course there are people who don't care for the bible, just like there are those who don't give a crap about their country and it's flag. Still, sometimes certain things go a little too far. Destroying a bible? Seriously?
You don't have to believe in God (and no offense to anyone what-so-ever), but you should at least be considerate of how others might take your actions. I don't think everyone would approve if some random guy on the street was burning or destroying American flags (I know I wouldn't.. not that I'd care too much either). The same goes for a bible, only I admittedly would care more so to watch a bible be destroyed than seeing the flag burned.
Anyway I never really answered the question. I'm not going to, but you can probably guess how I feel on the issue based on my above text.
0
Nashrakh
Little White Butterflies Staff
This was a stage show. Of a black metal band. I can totally see why he did that...
0
If you are going to do that on stage, DO NOT do it in Poland! Polish laws are different from here in the states and if you do something anti-reiligous it could land you in jail, depending on what country you are in. I remember Gorgorth got in trouble for having severed lambs heads and naked woman on cruficixes. Even Marilyn Manson got in trouble with the cops there for just preforming. Laws differ depending what country you are in. If this happened here in America, he wouldnt even get in trouble due to the free speech bill of rights.
0
HentaiElder wrote...
The above text, quoted from the article provided, is something to consider before flat out saying "No".do you see a difference between someone preaching the bible and someone burning the bible?
here in this case we got a group of religious people enforcing their opinion as just law
this is evidently about suppression, and "consideration" might be applicable for more than one of the parties involved
0
nacho wrote...
do you see a difference between someone preaching the bible and someone burning the bible?here in this case we got a group of religious people enforcing their opinion as just law
this is evidently about suppression, and "consideration" might be applicable for more than one of the parties involved
To answer your question, though I'm not sure if you were actually looking for one, yes I do see a difference between the two things (on a literal level). One is expressing support for the bible (preaching) while the other is doing the opposite (burning).
I also see that they're both a form of expression and under documents like the bill of rights, such expression should be and often is allowed.
However, because I've taken into account morals/values (what's right v. what's wrong), I'm more so in support of preaching something, rather than burning it. Still, what you said is certainly true (consideration can be and I believe is applicable for more than one of the two parties). That is why I didn't want to say too much in support for one side and not the other, because well... there's always the other perspective to think about.
Still, I think destruction of the bible is kind of absurd and offensive.
Hope this is a satisfactory response. Might be blurry/obscure here and there, but I think it's understandable.
0
HentaiElder wrote...
That is why I didn't want to say too much in support for one side and not the other, because well... there's always the other perspective to think about. Still, I think destruction of the bible is kind of absurd and offensive.
I believe there's a law in Germany stating that expressing holocaust denial will get you put in prison. Is there not something wrong with that? Putting someone in jail just because they hold a different view and insulted jews? That's fucking ridiculous. Being offended and not liking another's point of view is not a good enough reason to incarcerate them. Okay, what's this other perspective? "Waaaaa, they insulted our religion so lets shut them up using the law." To squelch opposing views like that is absurd, and to any freedom loving individual, offensive. Instead of squelching their opinion, the church should have condemned them through expression and not law. I support the burning of bibles and flags no matter who is offended, and if I have a problem with someone's views, I won't look to the law as my tool of suppression.
George Orwell knows a thing or two about thought police.
0
Nashrakh
Little White Butterflies Staff
Rbz wrote...
I believe there's a law in Germany stating that expressing holocaust denial will get you put in prison. Is there not something wrong with that? Putting someone in jail just because they hold a different view and insulted jews? That's fucking ridiculous. Being offended and not liking another's point of view is not a good enough reason to incarcerate them.
Actually, you're right about the Holocaust denial thing.
I also think it's ridiculous how denying the Holocaust is a crime.
Saying that may offend others, but everyone knows the one who said it is fucking nuts, needs to shut the fuck up and take some history lessons. Also, denying the Holocaust won't ever change history, so I can't understand how this could be considered something that doesn't fall under the right of free speech (which is otherwise pretty liberal over here).
tl;dr: Saying something politically offense is not a crime IMO.
0
I've used burning and destroying synonymously throughout my posts. Hopefully my word choice on those two doesn't make a difference. In essence, the same thing is happening.
Rbz
Being the person I am, I don't think I'd throw someone in jail for destroying a flag or bible.
But at the same time, I still believe that burning the bible is a reckless move and that people who do it should be prepared for some sort of consequence. That's not to say they deserve to be punished, but you should expect it. How many of you are really willing to go outside your homes, into a populated area, and burn the bible for all to see? Do you really think people who have genuine faith in God are just going to smile at you, wish you luck and walk away? I don't.
To me, it was a silly move. I mean, in a country with an abundance of religious people, why would you even consider doing it? Seems really reckless in my opinion, and so I'm not going to fight against his imprisonment.
Should he be jailed: who am I to decide that..?
But should he be surprised he's being jailed? I think not.
-HE
p.s. I know how you people feel, and Imma respect that, but destroying the bible is one of the the worst crimes of all time!
Rbz
Being the person I am, I don't think I'd throw someone in jail for destroying a flag or bible.
But at the same time, I still believe that burning the bible is a reckless move and that people who do it should be prepared for some sort of consequence. That's not to say they deserve to be punished, but you should expect it. How many of you are really willing to go outside your homes, into a populated area, and burn the bible for all to see? Do you really think people who have genuine faith in God are just going to smile at you, wish you luck and walk away? I don't.
To me, it was a silly move. I mean, in a country with an abundance of religious people, why would you even consider doing it? Seems really reckless in my opinion, and so I'm not going to fight against his imprisonment.
Should he be jailed: who am I to decide that..?
But should he be surprised he's being jailed? I think not.
-HE
p.s. I know how you people feel, and Imma respect that, but destroying the bible is one of the the worst crimes of all time!
Spoiler:
0
HentaiElder wrote...
But at the same time, I still believe that burning the bible is a reckless move and that people who do it should be prepared for some sort of consequence.Of course there will be consequences. Check out the 9/11 "truthers." They're seen as conspiracy nutjobs for their opinions. Some of them are contemptible douchebags who are, well, viewed with utter contempt by others. Point is, infringement of rights should not be a consequence.
0
Rbz wrote...
Point is, infringement of rights should not be a consequence.Well, I won't argue against that. To do so would be kinda pointless and go against what I said earlier ("under documents like the bill of rights, such expression should be and often is allowed"). Jailing him would be a violation of certain.. suppose you could say.. "inalienable rights".
My final say on the matter:
The way I see it, people should reserve the right to do certain things. However, one (and all) should be wary of how others might react to their actions and what could be the consequences (whether justifiable or not). Certain consequences may be deemed unfit, and in some cases are exactly that (this might be one of those cases), but you bring things upon yourself.
My final say on the matter:
The way I see it, people should reserve the right to do certain things. However, one (and all) should be wary of how others might react to their actions and what could be the consequences (whether justifiable or not). Certain consequences may be deemed unfit, and in some cases are exactly that (this might be one of those cases), but you bring things upon yourself.
0
2 years in prison for that, seriously?
Alright, as HE has said one realizes that doing this is stupid, that someone will be offended and that there will be consequences. But two years in prison is a bit over the top for this.
I mean..
Mayhem dropped a fucking pigs head on some poor sucker and cracked his skull, and got away with an apology.
Bad luck for Nergal, I guess he pissed of the wrong dude.
Alright, as HE has said one realizes that doing this is stupid, that someone will be offended and that there will be consequences. But two years in prison is a bit over the top for this.
I mean..
Mayhem dropped a fucking pigs head on some poor sucker and cracked his skull, and got away with an apology.
Bad luck for Nergal, I guess he pissed of the wrong dude.
0
The "bible" is just paper bound with ink on it. Just like any other book. While I don't condone the destroying of literature this was purely expressing a passionate opinion about a religion. It goes back to the fact that religion has somehow built up this crazy wall of immunity, where no one can say anything bad about it (even in countries that have freedom of speech) that no one can criticize them. It's rather annoying.
Also, being part of an anime club... I hate how churches can basically put fliers anywhere they like... but our anime club was turned down when we asked several places of business to put up our fliers. -.-
I don't see why I should walk on eggshells around people who have different beliefs as I do. Religious people don't do the same for me so why should I?
Also, being part of an anime club... I hate how churches can basically put fliers anywhere they like... but our anime club was turned down when we asked several places of business to put up our fliers. -.-
HentaiElder wrote...
Rbz wrote...
Point is, infringement of rights should not be a consequence.Well, I won't argue against that. To do so would be kinda pointless and go against what I said earlier ("under documents like the bill of rights, such expression should be and often is allowed"). Jailing him would be a violation of certain.. suppose you could say.. "inalienable rights".
My final say on the matter:
The way I see it, people should reserve the right to do certain things. However, one (and all) should be wary of how others might react to their actions and what could be the consequences (whether justifiable or not). Certain consequences may be deemed unfit, and in some cases are exactly that (this might be one of those cases), but you bring things upon yourself.
My final say on the matter:
The way I see it, people should reserve the right to do certain things. However, one (and all) should be wary of how others might react to their actions and what could be the consequences (whether justifiable or not). Certain consequences may be deemed unfit, and in some cases are exactly that (this might be one of those cases), but you bring things upon yourself.
I don't see why I should walk on eggshells around people who have different beliefs as I do. Religious people don't do the same for me so why should I?
0
kaishu wrote...
I don't see why I should walk on eggshells around people who have different beliefs as I do. Religious people don't do the same for me so why should I?
Well, I kinda explained why already. But for the sake of not leaving you with a question unanswered, I didn't say (nor do I believe) that you have to act a certain way. You be who you want to be. But if you act in a negative way (whether against religious people, a race of people, a group of people or anyone else) you really ought to be prepared for what could come out of it. It's like... being responsible for your actions.
You mentioned walking on egg shells. Is destroying a bible really such normal behavior that avoiding such acts is "walking on egg shells"?
Be courteous of others, that's my major idea on the issue.
0
HentaiElder wrote...
kaishu wrote...
I don't see why I should walk on eggshells around people who have different beliefs as I do. Religious people don't do the same for me so why should I?
Well, I kinda explained why already. But for the sake of not leaving you with a question unanswered, I didn't say (nor do I believe) that you have to act a certain way. You be who you want to be. But if you act in a negative way (whether against religious people, a race of people, a group of people or anyone else) you really ought to be prepared for what could come out of it. It's like... being responsible for your actions.
You mentioned walking on egg shells. Is destroying a bible really such normal behavior that avoiding such acts is "walking on egg shells"?
Be courteous of others, that's my major idea on the issue.
Ah, I see what you meant by that. It really is a shame that there are consequences for expressing your opinions...but as you say, that is how the world is.
And I get that... but that is exactly what I am arguing against. It shouldn't be that way by any means.
And by religious standards, no it isn't normal behavior to rip up a bible. =P
Was it normal behavior for my pastor to burn my Yu Gi Oh! cards because he thought they were evil? I wouldn't say so one bit. The difference is it was something that belonged to me personally. I would say this guy actually bought this bible, so I say let him do what he wants with his belonging.
0
Well, alright then. Gotcha.
Personally, I have never really experienced or witnessed an openly-religious person do the types of things that many atheist describe. Met one Jehovah witness in my lifetime, they asked me to join them but I never did (didn't want to). Never bothered me again.
So the whole deal about people talking about how religious people constantly annoy them (in the process of trying to convert/recruit people), tell people they're going to hell, and all this other jazz (like burning yugioh cards) has never been something I could truly say I understand.
Although I can understand why others would feel this way because of such events, I've never seen it happened. So to me it almost seems like exaggeration. It's a pretty odd place to be in.
Anyway, glad we could discuss this in a civil manner (you and I, as well as all the others who responded to me).
Personally, I have never really experienced or witnessed an openly-religious person do the types of things that many atheist describe. Met one Jehovah witness in my lifetime, they asked me to join them but I never did (didn't want to). Never bothered me again.
So the whole deal about people talking about how religious people constantly annoy them (in the process of trying to convert/recruit people), tell people they're going to hell, and all this other jazz (like burning yugioh cards) has never been something I could truly say I understand.
Although I can understand why others would feel this way because of such events, I've never seen it happened. So to me it almost seems like exaggeration. It's a pretty odd place to be in.
Anyway, glad we could discuss this in a civil manner (you and I, as well as all the others who responded to me).
1
HentaiElder wrote...
Well, alright then. Gotcha.
Personally, I have never really experienced or witnessed an openly-religious person do the types of things that many atheist describe. Met one Jehovah witness in my lifetime, they asked me to join them but I never did (didn't want to). Never bothered me again.
So the whole deal about people talking about how religious people constantly annoy them (in the process of trying to convert/recruit people), tell people they're going to hell, and all this other jazz (like burning yugioh cards) has never been something I could truly say I understand.
Although I can understand why others would feel this way because of such events, I've never seen it happened. So to me it almost seems like exaggeration. It's a pretty odd place to be in.
Anyway, glad we could discuss this in a civil manner (you and I, as well as all the others who responded to me).
Personally, I have never really experienced or witnessed an openly-religious person do the types of things that many atheist describe. Met one Jehovah witness in my lifetime, they asked me to join them but I never did (didn't want to). Never bothered me again.
So the whole deal about people talking about how religious people constantly annoy them (in the process of trying to convert/recruit people), tell people they're going to hell, and all this other jazz (like burning yugioh cards) has never been something I could truly say I understand.
Although I can understand why others would feel this way because of such events, I've never seen it happened. So to me it almost seems like exaggeration. It's a pretty odd place to be in.
Anyway, glad we could discuss this in a civil manner (you and I, as well as all the others who responded to me).
Hey, I love healthy debate! You make some good points. If anything, call me jaded due to past experiences. x3