america and anime.
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ive been wanting to ask this for quite a while me and a good freind of mine talked about it for nearly three hours the other day of why anime isn't as popular as it could be in the us, and it mainly boiled down to to main points,
one. that animation has been around in japan for a LONG time sence the late 60s or 70s i think he said.
and second. that whenever someone who isn't a fan hears the word anime, they immediately think of cartoons like tom and jerry or some shit. what ive been wondering is this. anime started gaining popularity in the past decade, and because its geared to be attractive to teenagers [as we were in the past ten year] that the first generation is now moving into adulthood, will it gain anymore popularity as we start passing it on to our children and soon and so-fourth? or will it remain a underground habit wich were afraid to show because people will think were freaks because of it.
one. that animation has been around in japan for a LONG time sence the late 60s or 70s i think he said.
and second. that whenever someone who isn't a fan hears the word anime, they immediately think of cartoons like tom and jerry or some shit. what ive been wondering is this. anime started gaining popularity in the past decade, and because its geared to be attractive to teenagers [as we were in the past ten year] that the first generation is now moving into adulthood, will it gain anymore popularity as we start passing it on to our children and soon and so-fourth? or will it remain a underground habit wich were afraid to show because people will think were freaks because of it.
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It will probable never reach what it's like in Japan or elsewhere, since another reason it's big over there is because it's also a part of their culture where here it's not.
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As long as we try to pass it on to the next gerneration it will. The biggest problem is that most of us grew up watching anime on daytime telavision, you know sit down turn on toonami after school and relax, nowadays that isnt the case and I dont think its going to change anytime soon either.
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I think it's because of things like disney and nickelodeon. many people believe that any animation is cartoons and for children. look at advertising(hamm's beer, camel cigartettes) that has been changed because 'it was marketing to children', just because it was animated. it comes down to ignorance and prejudgice. peolpe who have never been exposed to anime decide that it is cartoons.
i watch a lot of cartoons that are meant for kids, like spongebob and shit like that. when people find out, they seem confused that an adult over 30 would do such a childish thing. i then ask them why they are so worried about being grown up. i never have got a competant answer. it reminds me of those people in high school who were in such a hurry to be seen as adults.
off topic: @ OP, please PLEASE use spell check in the future. your post is blasphamy against the english language.
i watch a lot of cartoons that are meant for kids, like spongebob and shit like that. when people find out, they seem confused that an adult over 30 would do such a childish thing. i then ask them why they are so worried about being grown up. i never have got a competant answer. it reminds me of those people in high school who were in such a hurry to be seen as adults.
off topic: @ OP, please PLEASE use spell check in the future. your post is blasphamy against the english language.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
I dunno.
I've almost seen a relaxing in the view of cartoons that most people have had nowadays.
And while not everyone watches it, a lot of people are more aware of anime and such which means that it's not like it was for us where we were watching "some weird japanese shit."
While I don't think it'll ever become like the japanese here for many many reason, I don't think it'll remain as completely isolated as it use to be. It's already showing signs of it breaking out of its little niche.
The biggest problem is what has already been mentioned. There's not really any place that shows anime during the day anymore. So it might be hard to continue this adaption.
I've almost seen a relaxing in the view of cartoons that most people have had nowadays.
And while not everyone watches it, a lot of people are more aware of anime and such which means that it's not like it was for us where we were watching "some weird japanese shit."
While I don't think it'll ever become like the japanese here for many many reason, I don't think it'll remain as completely isolated as it use to be. It's already showing signs of it breaking out of its little niche.
The biggest problem is what has already been mentioned. There's not really any place that shows anime during the day anymore. So it might be hard to continue this adaption.
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One of the reasons that it isn't as popular here in the US is that it hasn't had much in the way of publicity. As BigBen mentioned, a lot of us may have been introduced to anime by Toonami, and in other cases Adult Swim. While Toonami may have boosted anime's popularity outside a select group since it was aired during the day, anime on Adult Swim usually comes on at or after midnight, therefore limiting the audience to the older teenage/young adult demographic.
Yet, you can't deny that anime has reached unseen heights in popularity as of late. Sure, it may not be as integrated into our culture as it is in Japan, but that's understandable; two different societies, two different sets of values.
Shaggnificent's point is most likely the primary reason that hasn't garnered as large a following as you would like it to. The problem is, such stereotyping isn't exclusive to anime; Batman: The Animated Series, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, Pinky and the Brain, Home Movies, Futurama, and even early Simpsons have been pegged as juvenile and "unfit" for adults simply because they are "cartoons." Thus, it's a problem of our own ignorance and prejudices that keeps anime confined to the realm of the obscure and esoteric.
Yet, you can't deny that anime has reached unseen heights in popularity as of late. Sure, it may not be as integrated into our culture as it is in Japan, but that's understandable; two different societies, two different sets of values.
Shaggnificent's point is most likely the primary reason that hasn't garnered as large a following as you would like it to. The problem is, such stereotyping isn't exclusive to anime; Batman: The Animated Series, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, Pinky and the Brain, Home Movies, Futurama, and even early Simpsons have been pegged as juvenile and "unfit" for adults simply because they are "cartoons." Thus, it's a problem of our own ignorance and prejudices that keeps anime confined to the realm of the obscure and esoteric.
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I wonder if a adult watching anime more acceptable in Japan than it is in the U.S? like if your 45 years old and you are caught watching old episodes of Pokemon will it be more acceptable for Japanese adults than American.
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Firstbornnyc wrote...
I wonder if a adult watching anime more acceptable in Japan than it is in the U.S? like if your 45 years old and you are caught watching old episodes of Pokemon will it be more acceptable for Japanese adults than American.I guess it depends on the cartoon, really. I don't think watching Pokemon as a 45 year old, even in Japan. However, watching cartoons like Home Movies and Batman: The Animated Series or anime like Cowboy Bebop and Grave of the Fireflies as an adult would more or less be "acceptable" because said examples cater to a mature audience. Once we can get past the presumption that "cartoons are for children," we can begin to appreciate animation as a respectable art medium, whether it be American, Japanese, or any other nationality.
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More like Anime is part of Japanese culture like Disney cartoons have been part of most of North America's. They see Hello Kitty, Gundam and Pokemon... Americans see Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck etc.
I don't think it will ever be as popular as it is there. Japan is the mecca of Anime so there's no way it'll ever be as popular.
I don't think it will ever be as popular as it is there. Japan is the mecca of Anime so there's no way it'll ever be as popular.
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iast wrote...
More like Anime is part of Japanese culture like Disney cartoons have been part of most of North America's. They see Hello Kitty, Gundam and Pokemon... Americans see Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck etc.I don't think it will ever be as popular as it is there. Japan is the mecca of Anime so there's no way it'll ever be as popular.
yea thats one of the main points brought up in our discussion. they've had it around for so long its become part of there society. just like EVERYONE knows what mickey mouse is over here. its the same for them over there although with things like hello kitty like iast said.
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There are several points I'd like to hit re: this topic.
A) Japanese animation is a hell of a lot older then 60s or 70s. It's progression being a lot like american animation (late 1910s/early 1920s). So... I'm not really sure what your first point was in regards to that, but yes, anime is old. But american animation is older (look up J. Stuart Blackton). I mean, we can go further and break it down to zoetropes and phenakistoscopes but this isn't history of animation and at that point we'd just be arguing semantics.
B) Anime is not geared solely to teenagers. Like western cartoons it runs the gamut from kids shows to... well, hentai. There are art house flicks, and there are big explodey blockbuster series and cutesy children shows. I was about to name western animated movies/series but I got stuck trying to figure out where I would put Heavy Metal (art house? no, too masturbatory. porn? hardly.) in relation to Triplets of Belleville (yeah, yeah, it's french)
2B) This brings me to the point that the idea of westerners solely finding animation "childish" is in itself a close minded concept. I would argue that animation is certainly ingrained into current western society as being acceptable to watch past the age of 13, Simpsons, south park, family guy, futurama, king of the hill, boondocks, etc. being the topic of many an office break room conversation. I mean look at Pixar. Just because it says family friendly doesn't mean it's just for kids (it just means they can sell more tickets), in fact, I'm often amazed at how much of the jokes are aimed at adults. Also, Tom and Jerry is violent as fuck.
To sum up, I don't think animation is as looked down upon in the west as you may believe especially within the past 20 years.
Now, that brings me to the next point I'd like to talk about dealing specifically with Japanese Animation.
There is resistance towards anime for several reasons including:
- A majority of anime... is TERRIBLE. Like, seriously, and I love anime. But the tropes, oh my god the rehashed tropes!
- Cultural differences can sometimes be night and day. You really think you can drop a show like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei (or anything from SHAFT for that matter) into primetime television and it would work? Hardly, that entire show is a japanese cultural joke. It works for anime fans because they already have that frame of reference to work off of.
And truth be told, a lot of these cultural differences are incredibly frustrating to an audience unused to it. Look at Japan's take on romance, sex, drinking/drugs, etc. (when it isn't hentai... and sometimes even still). I'm going to quote my friend because he makes an excellent point on the current problem with Japanese culture:
Having said all that, the style of japanese anime IS TOTALLY TAKING OVER THE US
I'm serious, look at a majority of the western born animated series (aimed at kids) coming out today. Teen Titans, Ben 10 (which is HUGE in asia... I found much irony in that), FREAKING AVATAR and a slew of others. Tell me that isn't at all influenced by anime. No no, I think what we're seeing now is a huge overlap in style and it's kind of sad in a way, because now animation is becoming incredibly homogenized (though inevitable, as with all things, thanks to globalization).
Ok, I wrote too much, and it's a bit disjointed but I didn't want to write more. Sorry for being so... argumentative. *phew*
A) Japanese animation is a hell of a lot older then 60s or 70s. It's progression being a lot like american animation (late 1910s/early 1920s). So... I'm not really sure what your first point was in regards to that, but yes, anime is old. But american animation is older (look up J. Stuart Blackton). I mean, we can go further and break it down to zoetropes and phenakistoscopes but this isn't history of animation and at that point we'd just be arguing semantics.
B) Anime is not geared solely to teenagers. Like western cartoons it runs the gamut from kids shows to... well, hentai. There are art house flicks, and there are big explodey blockbuster series and cutesy children shows. I was about to name western animated movies/series but I got stuck trying to figure out where I would put Heavy Metal (art house? no, too masturbatory. porn? hardly.) in relation to Triplets of Belleville (yeah, yeah, it's french)
2B) This brings me to the point that the idea of westerners solely finding animation "childish" is in itself a close minded concept. I would argue that animation is certainly ingrained into current western society as being acceptable to watch past the age of 13, Simpsons, south park, family guy, futurama, king of the hill, boondocks, etc. being the topic of many an office break room conversation. I mean look at Pixar. Just because it says family friendly doesn't mean it's just for kids (it just means they can sell more tickets), in fact, I'm often amazed at how much of the jokes are aimed at adults. Also, Tom and Jerry is violent as fuck.
To sum up, I don't think animation is as looked down upon in the west as you may believe especially within the past 20 years.
Now, that brings me to the next point I'd like to talk about dealing specifically with Japanese Animation.
There is resistance towards anime for several reasons including:
- A majority of anime... is TERRIBLE. Like, seriously, and I love anime. But the tropes, oh my god the rehashed tropes!
- Cultural differences can sometimes be night and day. You really think you can drop a show like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei (or anything from SHAFT for that matter) into primetime television and it would work? Hardly, that entire show is a japanese cultural joke. It works for anime fans because they already have that frame of reference to work off of.
And truth be told, a lot of these cultural differences are incredibly frustrating to an audience unused to it. Look at Japan's take on romance, sex, drinking/drugs, etc. (when it isn't hentai... and sometimes even still). I'm going to quote my friend because he makes an excellent point on the current problem with Japanese culture:
Because in a world where globalization is happening and cultural borders are falling due to the influence of the whole world being connected, Japan is still trying to be "Japanese" without recognizing that their youth is changing due to not being an isolationist country anymore
And that culture can still be retained over time, but it needs to change and evolve and become the new culture or else its going to fail
And that culture can still be retained over time, but it needs to change and evolve and become the new culture or else its going to fail
Having said all that, the style of japanese anime IS TOTALLY TAKING OVER THE US
I'm serious, look at a majority of the western born animated series (aimed at kids) coming out today. Teen Titans, Ben 10 (which is HUGE in asia... I found much irony in that), FREAKING AVATAR and a slew of others. Tell me that isn't at all influenced by anime. No no, I think what we're seeing now is a huge overlap in style and it's kind of sad in a way, because now animation is becoming incredibly homogenized (though inevitable, as with all things, thanks to globalization).
Ok, I wrote too much, and it's a bit disjointed but I didn't want to write more. Sorry for being so... argumentative. *phew*
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O.O wowza.. well.. i dont know what to say after that. i think you just answered and question i might have had.
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Maybe its as simple as ownership. What started in japan as cartoons or a.k.a anime is there toonami or nikalo..d<---I cant spell it.@.@ And since america has pride like texas or wherever else they want the label stamp to say MADE IN USA instead of japan or china. There's always gonna be that kid in the classroom saying "fucking commy's" or 'damnit japan or china whatever is stealing our money" so whatever is not us made is not considered us material. So people want a country of things they made and there rules instead of someone elses.
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1. I think the younger fans grossly over-estimate any stigma associated with watching anime (or cartoons in general) once past their teens. Teens, by definition, are still developing social graces and tend to be extremely intolerant of what they perceive to be 'normal'. While this doesn't go away entirely as you become older, it does lessen - as does the perceived need to conform. Personally, I'll be 60 very soon and have been watching animation all my life, anime for the last 10-15 years and don't really recall anyone thinking it was 'unacceptable". In fact - most adult males I know love animation in one form or another.
2. Why is anime less popular in the US? For one, there is a huge difference in how we perceive animation in general. Westerners tend to view animation almost as a genre - good for little more than pumping out Saturday morning fodder to keep the kiddies glued to the TV and out of their parents hair. Pixar and Disney may be exceptions - but even with them, its almost impossible to find western animation aimed specifically at adult audiences. There is no western equivalent to Elfen Lied. The Japanese tend to see animation as simply a method of telling a story - any story, from typically childish cartoons up to serious story telling. Most Westerners simply don't think about animation as being any thing but Tom & Jerry because they have never seen animation that would make them think otherwise.
Commercially it's a vicious cycle - there isn't a huge audience for anime so no one is willing to take a chance and show it on prime time TV, and it isn't likely to gain mainstream popularity because it isn't shown on prime time TV. Catch-22. But there is some hope, Western made, live action movies inspired by anime are becoming more abundant, proving that someone in Hollywood (at least) are familiar with anime and think they have stories worth telling.
2. Why is anime less popular in the US? For one, there is a huge difference in how we perceive animation in general. Westerners tend to view animation almost as a genre - good for little more than pumping out Saturday morning fodder to keep the kiddies glued to the TV and out of their parents hair. Pixar and Disney may be exceptions - but even with them, its almost impossible to find western animation aimed specifically at adult audiences. There is no western equivalent to Elfen Lied. The Japanese tend to see animation as simply a method of telling a story - any story, from typically childish cartoons up to serious story telling. Most Westerners simply don't think about animation as being any thing but Tom & Jerry because they have never seen animation that would make them think otherwise.
Commercially it's a vicious cycle - there isn't a huge audience for anime so no one is willing to take a chance and show it on prime time TV, and it isn't likely to gain mainstream popularity because it isn't shown on prime time TV. Catch-22. But there is some hope, Western made, live action movies inspired by anime are becoming more abundant, proving that someone in Hollywood (at least) are familiar with anime and think they have stories worth telling.
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Of course anime isn't as popular "as it could be" in the US. It "could be" replacing a ton of crappy copy-pasted courtroom dramas, soap operas, and sitcoms. It isn't, and that's that.
Why is it less popular as a medium than live-acted TV in general? Different strokes. This is true whether you're in Japan or the US - look at the different presentations of Great Teacher Onizuka's manga, animated, and live action versions.
Why is it less mainstream overall? Because getting hold of anime requires licensing procedures, which are tedious and expensive. It's easier and less expensive for a Western animation studio to rip off some anime and air it marketed as an original product (Disney, I'm looking at you!).
They also have to translate the show, including dubbing (yes, if it's going to be broadcast, dubbing is essential) - which includes finding a decent voice cast, recording dubs in the studio, then re-engineering the audio. And of course, paychecks for all of those as well.
Oh, and let's not forget the music. The original music must also be licensed for distribution - which means a lot of hassle with record companies, and more money spent. This is why a lot of older imported anime have entirely different soundtracks from their originals; they couldn't get the rights to include the music. (examples: Ranma 1/2, which had the occasional DoCo song that couldn't be brought over, and Macross/Robotech, whose vivid music score was butchered down to My Boyfriend's A Pilot because they couldn't get the music rights and didn't have the budget to record more than one song.)
To conclude on a tangent, though, anyone who thinks that anime is not mainstream or popular in the USA has not been paying attention. Shows like Boondocks and Avatar: The Last Airbender are proof enough of this.
Why is it less popular as a medium than live-acted TV in general? Different strokes. This is true whether you're in Japan or the US - look at the different presentations of Great Teacher Onizuka's manga, animated, and live action versions.
Why is it less mainstream overall? Because getting hold of anime requires licensing procedures, which are tedious and expensive. It's easier and less expensive for a Western animation studio to rip off some anime and air it marketed as an original product (Disney, I'm looking at you!).
They also have to translate the show, including dubbing (yes, if it's going to be broadcast, dubbing is essential) - which includes finding a decent voice cast, recording dubs in the studio, then re-engineering the audio. And of course, paychecks for all of those as well.
Oh, and let's not forget the music. The original music must also be licensed for distribution - which means a lot of hassle with record companies, and more money spent. This is why a lot of older imported anime have entirely different soundtracks from their originals; they couldn't get the rights to include the music. (examples: Ranma 1/2, which had the occasional DoCo song that couldn't be brought over, and Macross/Robotech, whose vivid music score was butchered down to My Boyfriend's A Pilot because they couldn't get the music rights and didn't have the budget to record more than one song.)
To conclude on a tangent, though, anyone who thinks that anime is not mainstream or popular in the USA has not been paying attention. Shows like Boondocks and Avatar: The Last Airbender are proof enough of this.
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I think its not as popular in america since, think about it this way, you've never watched nor heard of anime before, then someone suddenly mentions it to you, you decide to check it out, then a bunch of stuff you dont know about starts to happen.. something about shrines, and people getting sick by standing in the rain for 5 minutes, and magical girls... To be honest, I dont think I would like anime if the first anime I ever watched was Lucky Star or Melancholy of Fail since they talk about so much shit that no "typical" american would ever know anything about...
So its not about it being big here, but I think if there was an anime than more people would understand about without having to know fukken all japanese folklore and a shitton of old anime shows, then maybe alot of people will like it...
well at least that's what I think...
So its not about it being big here, but I think if there was an anime than more people would understand about without having to know fukken all japanese folklore and a shitton of old anime shows, then maybe alot of people will like it...
well at least that's what I think...
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
it because the only thing norms see that anime based or what people told them.
example
pokemon
yugioh
and sailor moon
so they see it as kids stuff and crap
or the media and hater spead the depth of anime pervertness like hentai,rape and nudily in normal anime like i see bulma's cunt in dragonball, or pure nakedness in gantz. which americans in there Puritan thoughts are prunes and nudity is wrong.
and it doesn't help that people see anime as " oh that japanese cartoon that have girl with tenticals and rape"
example
pokemon
yugioh
and sailor moon
so they see it as kids stuff and crap
or the media and hater spead the depth of anime pervertness like hentai,rape and nudily in normal anime like i see bulma's cunt in dragonball, or pure nakedness in gantz. which americans in there Puritan thoughts are prunes and nudity is wrong.
and it doesn't help that people see anime as " oh that japanese cartoon that have girl with tenticals and rape"
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Well a big reason anime and manga grew so popular was because of the efforts of Osamu Tezuka. That and that when the war ended, Japan was left broken and in ruins. The generally upbeat mood of Anime/manga helped the nation recover a lot faster.
-1
I think that anime is pretty popular in america compares to recent years, but i think the real reason that it's no as popular as it should be is because most americans are assholes and wouldn't give anime the time of day, they basically have never experienced real anime and you know who i blame for all this, Naruto yep it's the anime equalint of twilight, making stupid fans (ok not all of them but the good part), and killing there geners, with twilight it flooded bookstores with crappy vampire book (vampires are supposed to eat us no have sex with us), and Naruto killed a lot of american anime in general, because people who've never seen anime won't give it a chance cause of that show. Also america is a little racist