'But the police are there to protect us!'
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Wrong. Here is the typical anti-gun argument below in quotes.
Ban handguns in the USA!
We don't need to possess handguns to be safe. People are being killed everyday because someone was allowed to own a handgun. It really shouldn't be that way. That is why I support a handgun ban, and am for stricter gun control laws. Only people in jobs that require handguns should have them (police, military, etc). It is their job to protect us, not ours.
And from http://hematite.com/dragon/policeprot.html ;
One of the basic themes of gun control is that only the police and military should have handguns or any type of firearm. I cannot explain their rationale, other than to say that gun control proponents must believe that the police exist to protect the citizenry from victimization. But in light of court decisions we find such is not the case. You have no right to expect the police to protect you from crime. Incredible as it may seem, the courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to even respond to your calls for help, even in life threatening situations!. To be fair to our men in blue, I think most officers really do want to save lives and stop dangerous situations before people get hurt. But the key point to remember is that they are under no legal obligation to do so.
Case Histories
______________________________________________________
Now, not everything on the source site of these examples is fully backed-up, but you can't argue with legal precedence. I personally find it offensive that there are those that would have one allow oneself to be victimized and not defend oneself. The police cannot and will not protect you, and they [the pro-gun-control groups] would deny you the ability to defend yourself. [And while there are martial arts, the quote "Gun control: the right of a 110lb woman to fistfight with a 250lb assailant." comes to mind].
The most recent Michigan data/analysis I could find expeditiously was from 2005. 76 CPL's (Concealed Pistol License) were revoked due to criminal convictions, and not one CPL holder was convicted of murder. According to the information, close to two in every hundred (1/53) adults over the age of 21 in Michigan were licensed to carry a concealed weapon.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134650
Ban handguns in the USA!
We don't need to possess handguns to be safe. People are being killed everyday because someone was allowed to own a handgun. It really shouldn't be that way. That is why I support a handgun ban, and am for stricter gun control laws. Only people in jobs that require handguns should have them (police, military, etc). It is their job to protect us, not ours.
And from http://hematite.com/dragon/policeprot.html ;
One of the basic themes of gun control is that only the police and military should have handguns or any type of firearm. I cannot explain their rationale, other than to say that gun control proponents must believe that the police exist to protect the citizenry from victimization. But in light of court decisions we find such is not the case. You have no right to expect the police to protect you from crime. Incredible as it may seem, the courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to even respond to your calls for help, even in life threatening situations!. To be fair to our men in blue, I think most officers really do want to save lives and stop dangerous situations before people get hurt. But the key point to remember is that they are under no legal obligation to do so.
Case Histories
Spoiler:
______________________________________________________
Now, not everything on the source site of these examples is fully backed-up, but you can't argue with legal precedence. I personally find it offensive that there are those that would have one allow oneself to be victimized and not defend oneself. The police cannot and will not protect you, and they [the pro-gun-control groups] would deny you the ability to defend yourself. [And while there are martial arts, the quote "Gun control: the right of a 110lb woman to fistfight with a 250lb assailant." comes to mind].
The most recent Michigan data/analysis I could find expeditiously was from 2005. 76 CPL's (Concealed Pistol License) were revoked due to criminal convictions, and not one CPL holder was convicted of murder. According to the information, close to two in every hundred (1/53) adults over the age of 21 in Michigan were licensed to carry a concealed weapon.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134650
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tl;dr
I just want to say that I dun see the US citizens logic.
"Oh noes, we have more people getting shot and killed by guns every day than any other nation in the world. Let's get more guns that anyone can get so that we can defend ourself!"
Read it and realize that you are stupid.
I just want to say that I dun see the US citizens logic.
"Oh noes, we have more people getting shot and killed by guns every day than any other nation in the world. Let's get more guns that anyone can get so that we can defend ourself!"
Read it and realize that you are stupid.
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Ethil wrote...
tl;drI just want to say that I dun see the US citizens logic.
"Oh noes, we have more people getting shot and killed by guns every day than any other nation in the world. Let's get more guns that anyone can get so that we can defend ourself!"
Read it and realize that you are stupid.
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
Read it and realize that you are stupid.
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PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
tl;drI just want to say that I dun see the US citizens logic.
"Oh noes, we have more people getting shot and killed by guns every day than any other nation in the world. Let's get more guns that anyone can get so that we can defend ourself!"
Read it and realize that you are stupid.
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
Read it and realize that you are stupid.
Yea, so why not just make it easier to kill people, that sounds like a really good idea aswell.
And hey, I dunno, but it kinda feels like there is a connection between "more weapons available for anyone that wants them than any other nation in the world" and "more murders than any other nation in the world" (1+1 usually equals 2), but maybe that's just me thinking to deeply.
I mean, it's not even like you have the largest population in the world, or worst conditions to live.
Answer me; why do you kill each other, and why do you make it easier to do so?
I mean, it seems like common sense that the first thing you do when you want to prevent crimes is to limit the availability of getting tools of murder. Ofc you can't do it entirely, but not selling bullets at fucking wall mart might be a good start.
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Ethil wrote...
Yea, so why not just make it easier to kill people, that sounds like a really good idea aswell.And hey, I dunno, but it kinda feels like there is a connection between "more weapons available for anyone that wants them than any other nation in the world" and "more murders than any other nation in the world", but maybe that's just me thinking to deeply.
I mean, it's not even like you have the largest population in the world, or worst conditions to live.
We aren't on the top. Not even the top ten. Check your charts.
Ethil wrote...
Answer me; why do you kill each other, and why do you make it easier to do so?I'm not too big on philosophy so I don't know why humans kill each other. But the right to bear arms is a basic human right in my opinion. Besides if we didn't do this, the only people to have guns would be the ones that really wanted to kill, while the innocent are left out without a way to defend.
Ethil wrote...
I mean, it seems like common sense that the first thing you do when you want to prevent crimes is to limit the availability of getting tools of murder. Ofc you can't do it entirely, but not selling bullets at fucking wall mart might be a good start.There are millions of materials sold in your local store that can be used as a murder weapon. Want to limit those too?
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PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
Yea, so why not just make it easier to kill people, that sounds like a really good idea aswell.And hey, I dunno, but it kinda feels like there is a connection between "more weapons available for anyone that wants them than any other nation in the world" and "more murders than any other nation in the world", but maybe that's just me thinking to deeply.
I mean, it's not even like you have the largest population in the world, or worst conditions to live.
We aren't on the top. Not even the top ten. Check your charts.
Dude, that is what I just said. You're begging for another "stupid"?
PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
Answer me; why do you kill each other, and why do you make it easier to do so?I'm not too big on philosophy so I don't know why humans kill each other. But the right to bear arms is a basic human right in my opinion. Besides if we didn't do this, the only people to have guns would be the ones that really wanted to kill, while the innocent are left out without a way to defend.
Yea well, for some reason it works out pretty well in the countries without legal weapons, we're not even near your murder rate. There is a much lower need to defend if there is less you have to defend against. It is also questionable if using a weapon meant for killing is suitable for defense.
Then again, your country is pretty doomed; you screwed up long ago by letting anyone get their hands on weapons, and whatever you do now the murder rate is always gonna go upwards, since it is to late for you to think of lowering the availability of weapons now, there is already to many around.
And if it were up to me, killing is a basic human right as well, I mean, it's a basic human instinct, and who is to take that away from us? It seems to me like you wanna have guns just for the sake of having them when you say that.
PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
I mean, it seems like common sense that the first thing you do when you want to prevent crimes is to limit the availability of getting tools of murder. Ofc you can't do it entirely, but not selling bullets at fucking wall mart might be a good start.There are millions of materials sold in your local store that can be used as a murder weapon. Want to limit those too?
There is a difference between things that can be used for killing and things that are meant for killing. Which is again obvious if you look at how many more people are killed in your nation than anywhere else.
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Guns don't kill people, people kill people. i hate to use the loony NRA's favorite saying, but it fits here. in the UK people can't have guns, so they stab each other. the cops wear stab proof vests instead of bullet proof. access to guns has nothing to do with killing. people will always find a way.
the good thing about american's having guns, any other country will think twice before invading. like the japanese admiral or general or who ever said, "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".
the good thing about american's having guns, any other country will think twice before invading. like the japanese admiral or general or who ever said, "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".
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Ethil wrote...
PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
Yea, so why not just make it easier to kill people, that sounds like a really good idea aswell.And hey, I dunno, but it kinda feels like there is a connection between "more weapons available for anyone that wants them than any other nation in the world" and "more murders than any other nation in the world", but maybe that's just me thinking to deeply.
I mean, it's not even like you have the largest population in the world, or worst conditions to live.
We aren't on the top. Not even the top ten. Check your charts.
Dude, that is what I just said. You're begging for another "stupid"?
I believe he meant we're not in the top ten nations with most murders per capita. Which the United States isn't. United States is #24.
Ethil wrote...
PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
Answer me; why do you kill each other, and why do you make it easier to do so?I'm not too big on philosophy so I don't know why humans kill each other. But the right to bear arms is a basic human right in my opinion. Besides if we didn't do this, the only people to have guns would be the ones that really wanted to kill, while the innocent are left out without a way to defend.
Yea well, for some reason it works out pretty well in the countries without legal weapons, we're not even near your murder rate. There is a much lower need to defend if there is less you have to defend against. It is also questionable if using a weapon meant for killing is suitable for defense.
Then again, your country is pretty doomed; you screwed up long ago by letting anyone get their hands on weapons, and whatever you do now the murder rate is always gonna go upwards, since it is to late for you to think of lowering the availability of weapons now, there is already to many around.
And if it were up to me, killing is a basic human right as well, I mean, it's a basic human instinct, and who is to take that away from us? It seems to me like you wanna have guns just for the sake of having them when you say that.
Please, list these countries without legal weapons, because I assure you, some in those countries have illegal weapons. Considering how you consider our country seems to just hand out guns to everyone including children, I'll assure you now that this isn't true. The regulation is indeed flawed, but we do try to limit the assessibility of the dangerous weapons.
Now, you asked whether a weapon designed for killing is suitable for defense, I say yes. A strong offense is a good defense. If the attacker is dead, you don't need to worry. Now, is this a ethical method of defense? Hardly. Is there a better method of defense? Yup, live secluded from every single human being.
The next statement I'm attacking is your claim of how the country is doomed by making guns so available. I get the feeling that you think guns are only obtainable legally. Get this, criminals commit crimes. Wouldn't it be possible for them to... oh, I don't know... get their guns through illegal means? If the good citizens don't protect their homes with deterrance, then people with illegal guns would walk the streets with only the police to "control" things. Guess what, we have a shortage of police officers that would risk their lives for others but we have a near limitless supply of people that would arm themselves for an advantage over others.
"Killing people is a basic right." According to Locke, it is. He calls it the right of violence which we set aside for controlled government. If government would not work for the people, the people shall enact their right to violence. If it seems to you that people only use this statement as a reason to hold a weapon, you're fre to think what you like. However, since you're not in our position, you're not subjected to the constant fear that the media keeps enforcing on the general people, so we're free it ignore your ignorant (not an insult, it simply means a current lack of understanding) comments.
Ethil wrote...
PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
I mean, it seems like common sense that the first thing you do when you want to prevent crimes is to limit the availability of getting tools of murder. Ofc you can't do it entirely, but not selling bullets at fucking wall mart might be a good start.There are millions of materials sold in your local store that can be used as a murder weapon. Want to limit those too?
There is a difference between things that can be used for killing and things that are meant for killing. Which is again obvious if you look at how many more people are killed in your nation than anywhere else.
How about knives? Butcher knives are meant for killing, yet those are easily bought without any regulations. Cyanide is used to kill pests, also easily available. The question here is purpose and to the resourceful, everything has purposes outside of their intended use. Also, check out how easy it is to make homemade bombs. You can even google "homemade bombs" and you'll get decent results. You may also notice how the September 11 incident caused a major increase in homicide deaths which wasn't done by guns, wasn't done by citizens of this nation, and could (not would or should) have been prevented if there was some security officer with a gun onboard.
And once again, you seem to have a set agenda as to how United States has the largest homicide per capita. Hell, even Poland has a larger rate than we do.
Annnnnnnnyway. Onto the main topic. I agree with the United States Supreme Court decisions. The police aren't here to protect the citizens. Their oaths are to the government and to enforce the law. They are not obligated to any other duties but to perhaps prevent possible crime from happening in front of them. Am I happy about this fact? Nope, but I don't believe that we should burden the police to protect every single citizen in the country. We live in an economic world where we have to look at the costs of certain securities. We simply cannot afford to have a police officer stationed in every single household to protect the people from crime. Crime happens, but really rarely.
Over reliance on law enforcement officers is foolhardy. In those cases of domestic abuse, I find it strange that those women still stay with their husbands/boyfriends. In such sitations, shouldn't people turn to their connections for help such as friends and family? However, since I'm ignorant of their situation, I'll refrain from making anymore judgements.
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Ethil wrote...
Yea well, for some reason it works out pretty well in the countries without legal weapons, we're not even near your murder rate. There is a much lower need to defend if there is less you have to defend against. It is also questionable if using a weapon meant for killing is suitable for defense.
Then again, your country is pretty doomed; you screwed up long ago by letting anyone get their hands on weapons, and whatever you do now the murder rate is always gonna go upwards, since it is to late for you to think of lowering the availability of weapons now, there is already to many around.
And if it were up to me, killing is a basic human right as well, I mean, it's a basic human instinct, and who is to take that away from us? It seems to me like you wanna have guns just for the sake of having them when you say that.
Wow...where to begin?
Let's start at the top, and use Europe for an example. Yes, the violence rate is very low in Europe. But what about Switzerland, where the government trains every male resident in marksmanship and issues a select-fire Sig-550 to every house? (and allows citizens to possess all the handguns and full-auto weapons they want to buy). Or the Czech republic, where citizens can acquire a concealed-carry permit with not much more difficulty than here in Michigan and has gun laws very much like those in America? Last I checked, neither of those two nations had any more violent crime than the rest of the EU. Norway as well has it's own 'gun culture', even if it's not as strong as America's, and it's still less violent than the UK by half. You cannot effectively correlate gun ownership with violent crime, violent crime is a function of economic and social factors, not what tool one has access to.
And it is not just other guns that people want guns to defend against. What about one person versus a group of thugs? As shown in the court cases in my OP, all instances were violence not committed with firearms. And you think guns are not suitable for defense because they kill. Pepper-spray/Mace and tasers are all things that someone can build a resistance to, and especially against multiple assailants, are not good solutions. A firearm is an equalizer, and it is a definite force. It is also a force that is universally respected, oftentimes, presentation is enough to avoid having to use it. FBI statistics indicate anywhere from 250,000 to 2-million violent encounters are avoided because of the presentation of deadly force in defense.
Next, you claim we're doomed because we let anyone get their hands on a gun. Ever heard of the Brady Bill, or the NICS? To buy a gun you need to pass a background check and not be mentally unstable. Yes, it is possible to illegally acquire a weapon, but I support certain measures to cut-down on weapons theft.
Next, you claim murder rates have been and will always be going up. where do you get your information, exactly? violence rates in America have been on the decline for decades, and still are. Meanwhile, gun ownership has been on the rise, there are over 80 million gun owners in America and increasing every day.
And as to the availability of weapons, it is easy to make a gun. Give me a machine shop and I can make a machine gun with 3 moving parts and a 1200rpm rate of fire [as can anyone with decent mechanical aptitude]. Then there are zip-guns and other easily-made weapons.
Finally...fuck.
You think killing is a fundamental human right? Is that the impression you have of gun owners in the US?
We do not own guns because we want to kill. We do not carry guns because we are looking for confrontation. Like I said in the OP, it is so we can prevent ourselves from becoming victims. Carrying a gun means that you have a last resort. Emphasis on last. concealed carry classes emphasize de-escalation tactics. We only deploy deadly force when we are in genuine fear of bodily harm.
Another point of gun possession if deterrent against tyranny. As one of my favorite posters says,
Spoiler:
But that's for another discussion.
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Alright, let's get some of these things clear. The US does not by far have the highest rate of homicides, but still a lot more than many other countries, especially ones where guns are prohibited.
I found this nice little spreadsheet on The Guardians' homepage.
In Sweden, where I live, carrying handguns are strictly prohibited, we had, as of 2004 a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100.000 citizens.
In the US, as of 03-05 there were a homicide rate of 5.9 per 100.000 citizens, that is almost 500% more murders. And I browsed the FBIs website and found that (Year 2008, couldn't find one from 2004) 71.9 of the homicides committed were done by firearms.
I saw that the Czech Republic and Switzerland was mentioned as countries in Europe where people are allowed to wear, even trained, to use guns and I'm happy to report that Switzerland had a homicide rate of 2.9 and the Czech Republic had one of 2.2 (Year 2004 on both)
EDIT: If you're sceptical about the info, check the sources listed in the spreadsheet.
Now I have sadly had problem finding info about how many of these murders committed outside of the US were caused by firearms, but I can note that here in Sweden murder by firearms are quite rare, we usually beat each other to death instead.
I'll not try to argue if guns in the US should be more limited, or even prohibited. But no one can deny the fact that legal access to firearms makes it easier to acquire one, and therefore also the risk of someone dying by it. After all, guns are made to kill with, in defense or not.
I found this nice little spreadsheet on The Guardians' homepage.
In Sweden, where I live, carrying handguns are strictly prohibited, we had, as of 2004 a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100.000 citizens.
In the US, as of 03-05 there were a homicide rate of 5.9 per 100.000 citizens, that is almost 500% more murders. And I browsed the FBIs website and found that (Year 2008, couldn't find one from 2004) 71.9 of the homicides committed were done by firearms.
I saw that the Czech Republic and Switzerland was mentioned as countries in Europe where people are allowed to wear, even trained, to use guns and I'm happy to report that Switzerland had a homicide rate of 2.9 and the Czech Republic had one of 2.2 (Year 2004 on both)
EDIT: If you're sceptical about the info, check the sources listed in the spreadsheet.
Now I have sadly had problem finding info about how many of these murders committed outside of the US were caused by firearms, but I can note that here in Sweden murder by firearms are quite rare, we usually beat each other to death instead.
I'll not try to argue if guns in the US should be more limited, or even prohibited. But no one can deny the fact that legal access to firearms makes it easier to acquire one, and therefore also the risk of someone dying by it. After all, guns are made to kill with, in defense or not.
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Ethil wrote...
PersonDude wrote...
Ethil wrote...
Yea, so why not just make it easier to kill people, that sounds like a really good idea aswell.And hey, I dunno, but it kinda feels like there is a connection between "more weapons available for anyone that wants them than any other nation in the world" and "more murders than any other nation in the world", but maybe that's just me thinking to deeply.
I mean, it's not even like you have the largest population in the world, or worst conditions to live.
We aren't on the top. Not even the top ten. Check your charts.
Dude, that is what I just said. You're begging for another "stupid"?
I should feel offended, but seeing as how you just slapped your own face, I'm finding it hard to feel offended, but I'll leave some food for thought here:
a) You made it sound as if our country is up on the top of the charts. As I mentioned, we aren't even on the top 10. We are #24.
b) Murder rates in Mexico are quite high on the charts. Why? They have much stricter laws than the US, and in fact they have to smuggle their guns from the US. Then why are they placed much higher than the US on the list? Perhaps your thesis was incorrect?
c) Australia is much less restrained gun control outlook than the US. So homicide rates should be higher according to your theory, but in fact they are placed much lower on the charts than we are. (#43)
Again, I ask you to check your charts and look up facts.
Ethil wrote...
Yea well, for some reason it works out pretty well in the countries without legal weapons, we're not even near your murder rate. There is a much lower need to defend if there is less you have to defend against. It is also questionable if using a weapon meant for killing is suitable for defense.So you're saying that guns cause people to carry out crimes? A gun is the major factor in people deciding to kill another? Does the gun have a character that can influence this? I believe you're asking for a "stupid".
Ethil wrote...
And if it were up to me, killing is a basic human right as well, I mean, it's a basic human instinct, and who is to take that away from us? It seems to me like you wanna have guns just for the sake of having them when you say that.I'm hoping for the sake of your neighbors that your statement was sarcastic in tone. Also, murders aren't carried out just because someone has a gun. There's usually a personal motive. Again, firearms are not responsible for homicides, people are.
Ethil wrote...
There is a difference between things that can be used for killing and things that are meant for killing. Which is again obvious if you look at how many more people are killed in your nation than anywhere else.Doesn't make them any less lethal. In fact with the right blend, they become even more dangerous. But of course you believe guns can control minds and is the single contributing factor in homicide.
Also, again, check your charts.
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I think we should make another topic for gun-control laws because this topic is supposed to be the lack of government security being an issue in the domestic life.
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PersonDude, you just ate your own foot. Australia has some of the most draconian gun laws of a western(ish) nation. New Zealand though, is much more like the US but with a couple more layers of licensing. Everything else in your last post is good, but that bit on Australia...maybe you should be the one 'checking your charts'.
No, they're interpreting the thread correctly. It was an attempt to demonstrate why the gun-grabbers are wrong.
Spoiler:
Skrymir wrote...
I think we should make another topic for gun-control laws because this topic is supposed to be the lack of government security being an issue in the domestic life.No, they're interpreting the thread correctly. It was an attempt to demonstrate why the gun-grabbers are wrong.
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sv51macross wrote...
PersonDude, you just ate your own foot. Australia has some of the most draconian gun laws of a western(ish) nation. New Zealand though, is much more like the US but with a couple more layers of licensing. Everything else in your last post is good, but that bit on Australia...maybe you should be the one 'checking your charts'.It's state based and if they're allowing 12 year olds to shoot, I think that's pretty lax.
sv51macross wrote...
Spoiler:
Wikipedia wrote...
President Felipe Calderón has recently called attention to the problem of the smuggling of guns from the United States into Mexico, guns which are easily available both legally and illegally in the United States, and has called for increased cooperation from the United States to stop this illegal weapons trafficking.
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PersonDude wrote...
sv51macross wrote...
PersonDude, you just ate your own foot. Australia has some of the most draconian gun laws of a western(ish) nation. New Zealand though, is much more like the US but with a couple more layers of licensing. Everything else in your last post is good, but that bit on Australia...maybe you should be the one 'checking your charts'.It's state based and if they're allowing 12 year olds to shoot, I think that's pretty lax.
You need to take a look at the various bans and restrictions. Practically nonexistent handgun possession, no semiautos, no pump-action shotguns, no magazines over...two rounds (shotguns), untold licensing requirements...Australia is one of the most restrictive western nations for gun ownership you will find.
PersonDude wrote...
sv51macross wrote...
Spoiler:
Wikipedia wrote...
President Felipe Calderón has recently called attention to the problem of the smuggling of guns from the United States into Mexico, guns which are easily available both legally and illegally in the United States, and has called for increased cooperation from the United States to stop this illegal weapons trafficking.Yes, take the word of the head of one of the most corrupt governments in the world at face value. Calderon wants someone else to blame for his bungling and the US is an easy target. Like I said, I do think there is some trafficking of civilian arms to Mexico, but it is not near the problem Fienstien/McCarthy/Holder/Obama/Brady/Helmke make it out to be. They think another AWB is in order.
But we do need more federal LE at the border to enforce anti-arms traffiking regulation.
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I'm too lazy to read about your fantastic debate so I will just state my opinion.
Why don't people just learn unarmed self-defense rather than using those bloody weapons like guns? If people nowadays are very conscious of their safety, there are still some other self-defense mechanisms out there. They just think that they are not powerful enough to protect themselves that's why they use guns for their own sake. It's not really a bad thing to buy and own a gun for self-defense but people nowadays are using it in a wrong way that's why I suggest that they use an unarmed self-defense.
Why don't people just learn unarmed self-defense rather than using those bloody weapons like guns? If people nowadays are very conscious of their safety, there are still some other self-defense mechanisms out there. They just think that they are not powerful enough to protect themselves that's why they use guns for their own sake. It's not really a bad thing to buy and own a gun for self-defense but people nowadays are using it in a wrong way that's why I suggest that they use an unarmed self-defense.
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I'm going to break from my usual habit of posting sources for my argument. I'm currently not at home and don't have access to my records and other information. Please take my word for it this time.
First, Europe has always had a lower homicide rate than the United States since the countries inception. This has nothing to do with firearm ownership rates.
Second, removing firearms from law abiding citizens does nothing to prevent the ownership of firearms by non-law abiding citizens. These people are already breaking the law to begin with.
By applying the same logic we use for arguments against the war on drugs and prohibition we can see that making something illegal doesn't make it go away. You simply move the industry from a controlled and regulated environment to an unregulated environment. If a drug dealer wants a gun, he will get that gun, legally or illegally.
America currently boarders one of the most corrupt countries in the western hemisphere. The Mexican military personnel often work for drug cartels. Not only this but, they occasionally traffic in weapons stolen from the military cache. This places various automatic weapons in the hands of lesser affiliated gangs.
You can ban all automatic weapons within the territory of the United States and you still would not stop possession of such weapons within the country.
As Macross pointed out, the police have no reason to protect you. If the police don't have to protect you, who will? Even if the police were mandated to protect you they won't be able too. This is one of the reasons Americans feel the need to carry firearms. Criminals will avoid confrontation with people who are armed and aim for those they perceive to be unarmed.
Consider for a moment. How many shootings have occurred on a high school or college campus in America(where guns are prohibited). Then compare it to any place in America where guns are plentiful. You will see fewer shootings in areas of high gun possession. I often rely on the mandatory gun ownership law in Kennesaw Ga. crime rates were reduce after the law came into effect. There were fewer "B&E's", lower rates of mugging and even a minor reduction to domestic abuse and assaults. The exact number elude me as I don't have access to my records to post such information.
Guns get a bad reputation simply because the media portrays them in a negative light. We are unable to compare how many crimes were prevented by the possession of a gun or the perceived possession of a gun. the reason is these events are not reported and the few instances where a story in the media presents guns in a positive light they concentrate on the "heroism" of the person who used the gun.
I read an article once of a woman being assaulted by her boyfriend or husband in public. Another man stepped forward and drew a revolver and order the man to stop. He was able to keep the man in place until police could arrive and arrest the wife beater.
I'm more on the extreme side of gun ownership. I believe in bringing back the militia for various reasons and arming the militia members with automatic weapons like an ak-74 (or ak-47), M4A1,etc. This stems from my "isolationist" point of view with the military and it's existence for defense only.
Last but, not least. The first thing any dictator does once coming to power is to disarm his domestic enemies. Armenian Genocide, The Nazi gun laws of 1938, Rwanda, Cambodia, Uganda, etc,etc,etc
Don't punish the people who are simply trying to protect themselves. Punish criminals who use guns to violate the rights of others.
Unarmed self defense is a good base but, has it's limits.
First, Europe has always had a lower homicide rate than the United States since the countries inception. This has nothing to do with firearm ownership rates.
Second, removing firearms from law abiding citizens does nothing to prevent the ownership of firearms by non-law abiding citizens. These people are already breaking the law to begin with.
By applying the same logic we use for arguments against the war on drugs and prohibition we can see that making something illegal doesn't make it go away. You simply move the industry from a controlled and regulated environment to an unregulated environment. If a drug dealer wants a gun, he will get that gun, legally or illegally.
America currently boarders one of the most corrupt countries in the western hemisphere. The Mexican military personnel often work for drug cartels. Not only this but, they occasionally traffic in weapons stolen from the military cache. This places various automatic weapons in the hands of lesser affiliated gangs.
You can ban all automatic weapons within the territory of the United States and you still would not stop possession of such weapons within the country.
As Macross pointed out, the police have no reason to protect you. If the police don't have to protect you, who will? Even if the police were mandated to protect you they won't be able too. This is one of the reasons Americans feel the need to carry firearms. Criminals will avoid confrontation with people who are armed and aim for those they perceive to be unarmed.
Oh noes, we have more people getting shot and killed by guns every day than any other nation in the world. Let's get more guns that anyone can get so that we can defend ourself!
Consider for a moment. How many shootings have occurred on a high school or college campus in America(where guns are prohibited). Then compare it to any place in America where guns are plentiful. You will see fewer shootings in areas of high gun possession. I often rely on the mandatory gun ownership law in Kennesaw Ga. crime rates were reduce after the law came into effect. There were fewer "B&E's", lower rates of mugging and even a minor reduction to domestic abuse and assaults. The exact number elude me as I don't have access to my records to post such information.
Guns get a bad reputation simply because the media portrays them in a negative light. We are unable to compare how many crimes were prevented by the possession of a gun or the perceived possession of a gun. the reason is these events are not reported and the few instances where a story in the media presents guns in a positive light they concentrate on the "heroism" of the person who used the gun.
I read an article once of a woman being assaulted by her boyfriend or husband in public. Another man stepped forward and drew a revolver and order the man to stop. He was able to keep the man in place until police could arrive and arrest the wife beater.
I'm more on the extreme side of gun ownership. I believe in bringing back the militia for various reasons and arming the militia members with automatic weapons like an ak-74 (or ak-47), M4A1,etc. This stems from my "isolationist" point of view with the military and it's existence for defense only.
Last but, not least. The first thing any dictator does once coming to power is to disarm his domestic enemies. Armenian Genocide, The Nazi gun laws of 1938, Rwanda, Cambodia, Uganda, etc,etc,etc
"Gun control" promoted at least seven other major 20th Century genocides, including those in Rwanda, Cambodia, and the ex-Soviet Union. In just 103 days, 800,000 Rwandans were murdered in 1994, including several hundred thousand thanks to "gun control" (laws of 23 November 1964 and 1 May 1979). In these eight major genocides, a total of 57 million children, women, and men were murdered by officials of governments "gone bad," thanks to "gun control."
Don't punish the people who are simply trying to protect themselves. Punish criminals who use guns to violate the rights of others.
Harontiar wrote...
Why don't people just learn unarmed self-defense rather than using those bloody weapons like guns? If people nowadays are very conscious of their safety, there are still some other self-defense mechanisms out there. They just think that they are not powerful enough to protect themselves that's why they use guns for their own sake. It's not really a bad thing to buy and own a gun for self-defense but people nowadays are using it in a wrong way that's why I suggest that they use an unarmed self-defense.Unarmed self defense is a good base but, has it's limits.
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Unarmed self defense is great and I would definitely recommend it, but you must realize that in any given situation, an armed person would always have an advantage over an unarmed person. If a guy was mugging with a gun, he wouldn't be intimidated because the victim knows a few moves. If you want to imagine it, thin back to that Indiana Jones movie where Jones simply shot the guy doing some flashy sword moves.
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To say that the US has a high rate of gun violence is an over genralization.
Take the LA area of california or new york city. there are areas with high murder rates in close proximity to areas with very low rates. the areas with the low rates have the same access to guns.
Access to guns really has very little to do with murder rates. i think it has more to do with the socio-economic situations of the immediate areas, and a small percentage with the interpersonal relationship of the perpetrator and victim(crimes of passion).
For example areas that produce a extremely valuable comodity, like diamonds or cocaine, may start with few guns and import more to protect or attack the source of the comodity.
i do not own any guns myself btw.
Take the LA area of california or new york city. there are areas with high murder rates in close proximity to areas with very low rates. the areas with the low rates have the same access to guns.
Access to guns really has very little to do with murder rates. i think it has more to do with the socio-economic situations of the immediate areas, and a small percentage with the interpersonal relationship of the perpetrator and victim(crimes of passion).
For example areas that produce a extremely valuable comodity, like diamonds or cocaine, may start with few guns and import more to protect or attack the source of the comodity.
i do not own any guns myself btw.