Gender discrimination at the work place.

For starters, my employer hires both men and women. The job itself isn't actually what many would call physically demanding, but every now and then some heavy lifting is required.

A few days ago after our break, our boss pulled all the guys aside and sent the ladies back to working. He then proceeded to warn/alert the males that if they were not able to work faster, quicker, and with a "sense of urgency". That he would have no problems sending those who can not, home. However, before he even began stating that, he started by saying how some women on the team are working better then some of the men. Now in the guys defense, between the men and women, there are more female workers who have worked for the company longer then men. Currently about 80% of the male workers are still under their 90 days. I can only think of about five that are not. Which is the exact opposite for the women, in the last 90 days there have only been four new female workers. While I can easily pick out about five female workers who need to be told the same thing the men were.

Again, for the sake of the thread title, he did specifically mention how he expects more out of the "men". I could tolerate this for a while, but not when I always see the females constantly complaining how heavy something is, and having to ask one of the guys to either lift it, or help them lift it. Yes, this was a rant about what I am sure many of us have seen before or perhaps experienced, but in this case it just seemed like our boss was really speaking in a sexist way. Feel free to reply, and one up me with sexism/gender discrimination that you have experienced at your workplace, and if you think that what my boss mentioned, or how he mentioned it was inappropriate, how I can bring this to the higher ups attention.

We all know what happens when males and females work in the same business.

Your topic sounds like a scene I have seen in anime shows before where the boss screams at the male workers and softens up to the females by being a pet dog.

We always experience gender discrimination at a work place...been a janitor at a fitness gym for some time before and the females just babble on about how I don't work like a female..huh? Like a female?
And then they say how it's a WOMAN"S JOB to clean and I been picked on by women over there for a while.. but in the end they got fired for not bringing out good results and I kept the job since they said "You have a talent for cleaning".

People these days categorize certain tasks to certain genders and that is ridiculous.
Sure there are some tasks a woman can't handle and needs a mans help to finish it..
just like men need some help from females in a workplace....
but it's really messed up to assume that females are better workers than men...
this is an opinion from someone but NEVER a fact..

Sure men have more muscles but it doesn't mean women are weak...
and also females are delicate but doesn't mean men are sloppy...

it all depends on the persons settings and not on gender...

My sister doesn't need a man to help her but she doesn't assume guys are weak.. she just likes working like that.

(i'm not sure whether you're female or male - i think female by your sense of character :) )

Well, let's talk without politics or human rights or anything fancy for the moment - purely biologically speaking.



So, biologically speaking males have more muscle mass and are supposed to be physically stronger than women. Anthropologically speaking, females rear children, while males hunt. So in the case of your employer, I agree with him saying that the men need to "man up" and saying nothing to the women. That' OK

Secondly, psychologically speaking, males tend to be more sloppy than women, women pay more attention to details - i guess in way you can say males have the brawn, females have the brains. I'm saying this PURELY from a scientific point of view. So in the case of your boss, perhaps the males were slacking off a bit on the job; however it really comes down to each of their personal life, whether they have children or families/wifes/husbands - it plays a big role in their motivation.

All that aside;
I'm assuming your boss is male? I think your boss simply has the presumption that males are supposed to be harder workers in manual labour - there's nothing too wrong about that - in this case of telling off the males and nothing to the women IS a little overboard but there wasn't anything TOO wrong about it. I agree with you, saying how the females should get the same treatment? but it really comes down to, like Legendary_Dollci said, each individual's personal views and upbringing; i mean i wouldnt be surprised if some of the males through the boss was right, while others thought your boss went overboard; and vise versa for the females.

Yeah, I agree with you that perhaps your boss wasn't too right about calling in the males and not the females, but i'll have to disagree with you on your point about him being sexist. You're right in today's society so much has changed, roles are slowly changing, men are taking on more maternal jobs, women more paternal jobs.

I see you're trying to say that your boss are seeing women as inferior, so their level of proficiency doesn't have to be up to the standard he sees fit - ie that's why he didnt call in the women (so this is where that sexism is coming from) but I think he might have just been trying to be nice to the females who have worked there for a while.

No, that would be incorrect.
Women are superior in attention to detail, yes, that is true. Women are also more emotional.
What you've failed to mention is that men are superior in geometry and shape. Men are also more logical rather than emotional.

Saying that women have brains over men is incredibly unreasonable. In fact, from a statistical point of view:
The IQ scores of women are generally at a low variation from the peak of the bellcurve. Meaning, the majority of women possess average IQs.

The IQ scores of men on average, are the same as women, however, the distribution is much different.
There are about five times more men on each side of the spectrum, meaning:
The number of male geniuses is five times that of the female counterpart. The other side of the coin though, there are also roughly five times more male mental retards than the female counterpart.

This is rather general knowledge, but a quick link on google:
http://www.aboutintelligence.co.uk/who-smarter-men-women.html

If your job requires heavy-lifting, and the women at your job cannot lift the objects, then they are unable to perform their jobs correctly.

You should take your complaint to the Human Resources department at your company.

Here where it gets kinda interesting....

Sure maybe your boss was being nice to the female worker since they worked there so long ( must be a reason why) and why the males are being screamed because they didn't work so long there.

But I have to say..
that your boss called on JUST the males and not the females is weird...
if a boss announces a staff meeting then everybody should come regardless of gender..

About that comment about psychology and genetics..
The human mind and body can change and adapt itself to any environment or situation..
In the past ( WAY BACK) there were tall people, short people, and people who like to fight, and people who uses strategy....
It is because those places had different environments and that people needed to "evolve or adapt" to survive in those regions.

In Pre-america the tribes were not that tall and possessed incredible intelligent and teamwork since living in a jungle was dangerous.. so they "Mentally" adapted theme selves by making weapons for hunting, building traps for enemies, and build emotion for one another that way the tribes could survive.

So that Women are more intelligent in details and men are more logical is purely an opinion made by millions. I think people is starting to forget the term evolution and how it occurs.

If the job description of the women in question calls for the lifting, then yes, that should be their job. If the men's job description calls for it, they should also do so.

As to the boss comments:
But to expect more of the male workers because the females are doing better? Hmmm. Tough call. Out of context I'd say that's not quite fair, but if the females are showing that they can do the job more efficiently, then your boss may beleive the majority of males are slacking to balance it out. And he/she may want to demand higher standards of the men to make up for this.

I agree on that...

Job description does call for "heavy lifting" but no specific weight mentioned like with the post office, UPS, Fed-Ex etc. I always see the guys just use guts to move heavy stuff by themselves and the girls stop and wait to ask a guy to either do it for them, or help them. He specifically said "some of the girls are out performing some of the guys". Sadly though a lot of the guys on our team are new, I've mentioned this before I believe, so I don't know how he can expect new guys to match those particular girls level.
If you want something else to talk about, this boss was in the military. I don't know how much that reflects his words exactly. Maybe he just likes barking orders and the guys?

I think he just loves females and that maybe he is single.

Sounds like first world problems in here.

Suck it up and deal with it. If all the males in your workplace are underachieving according to your boss then isn't this an opportunity for you to buckle up and work harder to gain advantage over your competition?

Rather than trying to get at your boss, which will never work, question yourself instead.

So if something is not fair, you suck it up and deal with it?
If you're facing discrimination, do you suck it up and deal with it? And do you question yourself?
If you're being robbed, do you suck it up and deal with it? And do you question yourself?
Do suck up to murder and just "deal with it"? And do you question yourself?
How about genocide? Do you just deal with it? And do you question yourself?

It's ridiculous, but where do you draw the line?

It really bugs the hell out of me when people treat heterogenous groups as if they were single data points. Men are NOT stronger than women and neither gender is better than the other at any mental function. These are all TENDENCIES; men on average have more muscle mass, and members of each gender tend to have different mental faculties. This is a VERY important distinction.



Thank you, Strenta, for actually understanding statistics.

On topic, if they are receiving equal pay, they should be working equally hard. The new males/females should be given some leniency period while they're getting used to the job, but if they fail to improve, that's their problem. The older males/females should be held to the same standard.

I think your boss may very well hold a view that men need to work harder than women, at least physically, to prove their manliness or something.



Maybe you mean adaptation, because the example with the Amerindians has nothing to do with (biological) evolution.

Way to strawman an argument.

We're not talking about being robbed, or murder, we're talking about OP's circumstances which i hardly even consider discrimination at all. Don't be stupid. If that's how you argue something then you need to re-think your logic.

Your comment has as much relevance as me posting an image of a cow.

(how does one into rhetoric?)
The OP's comment stated:
There are both men and women who are new to the job, there are both men and women who have been working for quite the while.
The bosses complaint was that employees were not working fast enough. That is a legitimate complaint.

A reasonable way to approach it would be to call in all of the new employees. It's reasonable that new employees are not going to work as fast, or perhaps with as much accuracy, regardless of whether they are men or women.

Calling in all of the men, even the ones who are skilled and work perfectly, and telling them that they are not fast enough, based on the fact that they're men, is in fact discrimination, especially when there is a perfectly better alternative way to approach it.

You don't consider it wrong today, what won't you consider wrong tomorrow?

Now you're being prejudice, what's next!?

Tell me, what are you using basing these conclusions on? Are you OP's boss? Do you work at the same place OP does? Tell me, because i sure as hell didn't hear anything like that.

To me it sounds like you're the one making rash prejudice, not the boss. On your prejudices, you have painted a conclusion and a situation of set of circumstances that the OP hasn't mentioned anything like. Do you have proof that these men are skilled and work perfectly and adequately? Do you have proof that new workers are not working well?

Well ask yourself if "Gender Discrimination" is the case here and ask the guys if they feel the same about it....

I can only talk so much about my experience....

Has this been going on for a long period if time?
Are the guys REALLY slacking off?
Are women actually giving effort in where they work?
Does your boss change his behavior pattern from time to time? ( Meaning is he ALWAYS like this or something happens then he goes ballistic and charges at the guys?)

Based on my "Experience" and not facts or theories....
That men tend to have competition against each other when there is a woman at presence and change their behavior patterns to "Show off" their manliness by screaming, athletic sports, wearing better clothes,sucking up to the ladies or even "Act" to try to get her attention.
But does that case apply to your boss? ( Maybe he is showing off in front of the ladies so he can give a good impression.)

If you and the guys are seem to be doing fine meaning nothing bad happened or that heavy lifting didn't cause some sort of incident then there is DEFINITELY something going on with your boss.

*I am adding that maybe your boss has the impression that women are just better workers and that he thinks men in general are all slackers.*

*Note* ( once again edited to add something)
If your boss calls for a staff meeting then EVERYBODY should attend and not just guys..

I have a question... what does your workplace do?
Maybe I can answer your question more thoroughly if I know what kind of job it is.

*adding*
https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?p=2497068#2496970

I can agree to Anesthetize question if the new guys are really doing what they are supposed to do or if they are slacking off simply because they are new general.

*Note*
If someone wants to work at a specific place then it's only natural to expect the effort he has to give in maintaining his job.. it's not all about earning money, it's also about giving a good amount of effort to maintain that job so you could STILL earn money.

Peace out, I think I wrote enough... have a nice day everybody.

"some women on the team are working better then some of the men" --op
On this same token, some of the men are working better than some of the women.
(otherwise, all the women would be working better than the men)
If the quality of the work of the men is not up to standard, but some of the men's work is of higher quality than the women's, then why were no women called in?



Some may and some may not, it depends on talent. However, it's indicated by
"I don't know how he can expect new guys to match those particular girls level." --op

I actually do intend to "suck it up" Anesthetize, I am not as bothered by it as I was at first. Its just a bit frustrating that he would address all the guys, instead of just pulling aside the ones he sees are working less then others. Or at least I thought that's how it should be done, but I have nothing to worry about personally, I work my butt off anyways, always have since I got the job.




Has what been going on so long? Just like with every job there is always a few workers who care less about the job, I am sure we've all seen it before. As for his warning to the guys, this was the first time he's done this.

I could think of at least two females, and three males that are slacking off, and sadly the 2 females are not new workers, they've each been working with me for a few years, since before I got the job about two plus years ago.

Both the guys and girls give effort. See the above statement.

Its hard to fine a pattern right now, he's actually only been our boss for a few months, maybe four months. He's not new to management positions though, perhaps he just expects to much, and there are just still too many workers still here from the prior managements days so we're all not used to his methods.



Without being specific, its warehouse type work more or less. On our feet seven to eight hours a day, some heavy lifting here and there, only a few people myself included actually need to use some of the equipment; baler, crown, wave. Every one else just needs to know how to use pallet jacks and be able to lift empty pallets for staking them, and some can't even do that.

If it was the first time he has been like this then I guess we can't know if Gender discrimination was the case.

Hmm.... since you said that he hasn't been manager for a long time I can understand that it must be difficult at first to adjust himself in that position since I too as well have experienced a new manager coming in... and trust me I know how that feels.

Whenever a new manager comes in and presents his method on how to work and when to finish it then it takes time getting used to his methods as well since you guys have been working the way you been doing it for some time now. ( I am not implying that you guys are slacking off just saying in general)

Well it's too early to judge the situation... maybe you should let things flow and see how things work out later on.
Talk to some of the female slackers about it, you can only change things if you step up and ask the question.

If the situation you imagine is a little out of hand then talk to your manager as well, I am sure you will know from him why he screams at you guys.