Hacking Your PS3: Should it be legal?
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I know this sounds like it should be in the Video Game section but rather this topic is more serious than it would seem. This topic is not only about the PS3 but rather about hacking similar devices as well. Is hacking something you already bought legal?
For gamers, most probably know the guy named Geo Hotz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz), who managed to use Jailbreak to hack his PS3 system. Sony has taken legal steps to sue the guy and take everything he used to hack the PS3 away.
Just recently a group called Anonymous who are regarded by their enemies as "Cyber Terrorists" and by some as heroes of the innocent attacked Sony websites and even the Playstation Store. If you've watched Anonymous message to Sony through youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcSCUU4Fg9k) they state that denying the use of jailbreak and taking legal steps against Geo Hotz "is the same as buying a computer but being punished for installing or deleting a program in it". Now, my question is, is that statement true?
My stand in this is that when you buy an item, what you buy is not the item itself but the right to use that item. When I buy a music CD for example, I am not allowed to distribute that music illegaly in the internet as I would be violating copyright issues (although this is usually ignored by most people since copyright laws are rarely dealt with seriously), what I am allowed to do is to listen to the CD as it is the right I bought with my money. I personally feel that it's the same for the PS3, when someone buys it he/she gains the right to use it for its intended purposes which are (playing games, watching movies, surfing the web with its horrible browser, chatting online with friends, listening to music) and hacking it would be tapping illegally to the intel which are privately owned by Sony. The major difference between a computer and a PS3 or any other console is that you are expected to install and delete programs in your computer while the PS3 is there for specific purposes.
Although I think Sony has pushed Geohotz a little too much my main point is that I think Sony has the legal ground. I think instead of attacking this guy they should've just hired the guy since he seems better than the mediocre programmers they have... but thats not the point. Point is, do you think he was unjustly treated? Is hacking a console you bought with hard earned money justifiable?
For gamers, most probably know the guy named Geo Hotz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz), who managed to use Jailbreak to hack his PS3 system. Sony has taken legal steps to sue the guy and take everything he used to hack the PS3 away.
Just recently a group called Anonymous who are regarded by their enemies as "Cyber Terrorists" and by some as heroes of the innocent attacked Sony websites and even the Playstation Store. If you've watched Anonymous message to Sony through youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcSCUU4Fg9k) they state that denying the use of jailbreak and taking legal steps against Geo Hotz "is the same as buying a computer but being punished for installing or deleting a program in it". Now, my question is, is that statement true?
My stand in this is that when you buy an item, what you buy is not the item itself but the right to use that item. When I buy a music CD for example, I am not allowed to distribute that music illegaly in the internet as I would be violating copyright issues (although this is usually ignored by most people since copyright laws are rarely dealt with seriously), what I am allowed to do is to listen to the CD as it is the right I bought with my money. I personally feel that it's the same for the PS3, when someone buys it he/she gains the right to use it for its intended purposes which are (playing games, watching movies, surfing the web with its horrible browser, chatting online with friends, listening to music) and hacking it would be tapping illegally to the intel which are privately owned by Sony. The major difference between a computer and a PS3 or any other console is that you are expected to install and delete programs in your computer while the PS3 is there for specific purposes.
Although I think Sony has pushed Geohotz a little too much my main point is that I think Sony has the legal ground. I think instead of attacking this guy they should've just hired the guy since he seems better than the mediocre programmers they have... but thats not the point. Point is, do you think he was unjustly treated? Is hacking a console you bought with hard earned money justifiable?
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It depends on what you're doing with the hack. The idea that people hack anything for anything legal is laughable. If you hack, you're doing to to avoid paying money for iphone stuff, to install emulators, and to play pirated games, pure and simple. Keep in mind that I'm pro hacking, as I believe that you shouldn't have to pay to use a custom ringtone on your iphone, or to play a SNES emulator on your PS3, but by doing so you're deliberately avoiding paying the charges that you should be paying for set down by the manufacturers of said products. Such is theft.
The reasons behind hacking may or may not be justifiable, but it comes down to the fact it's illegal. Whether you percieve it as justified or not comes down to your own perceptions on the matter, but is it right to hack into your system to you can play a game without purchasing a legal copy of it?
The reasons behind hacking may or may not be justifiable, but it comes down to the fact it's illegal. Whether you percieve it as justified or not comes down to your own perceptions on the matter, but is it right to hack into your system to you can play a game without purchasing a legal copy of it?
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SurvivorType wrote...
but is it right to hack into your system to you can play a game without purchasing a legal copy of it? Okay, I'm sure opinions will be divided about this. As much as I like playing games for free I also know that doing so will discourage game developers from making epic games. And can you blame them? It takes so much money and time to make a good game in today's consoles then what? Their product is distributed for free illegaly? I'm sure there's morethan one way that can go wrong. Not to be egotistic but after I saw the decline of quality in PS2 due to mass piracy I've never bought anything pirated in any console again thats why I don't fully support hacking the system to allow some gamers to play games without purchasing the product.
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I agree whole heartedly. I'm fine with hacking being used for certain things, but not for pirating games of that system. I know it's double standards, but thats how I feel about it.
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I don't think its completely wrong or completely right. If you are a Sony gamer, you should remember the patch that was Sony forced onto PS3 so that you were no longer able to install Linux on it. If you did not install that patch, you were no longer able to play on the PSN. Is that wrong? I think so. The PS3 was sold with that function. For Sony to take that away is unacceptable. Gamers paid money for it. Even though it could potentially be used as a way to play pirated games, I still feel that Sony was in the wrong to remove it. The consumers paid money for it and as such, they should have it.
Emulators for old games seems to be fine to me. NES, SNES, Gensis...etc. All those games are no longer in production. The companies can't make money off of it anymore. There should be no reason that gamers still shouldn't be allowed to enjoy those games. With that said, that's why companies are re-releasing those games. They still hope that can suck some form of money from it.
Sony did take it a little too far. To persecute someone to that extent will undoubtedly have consequences. Anonymous is definitely wrong, as their actions affect gamers more than Sony. But there are times were the consumers need to show that they will not be pushed around by big corporations.
Emulators for old games seems to be fine to me. NES, SNES, Gensis...etc. All those games are no longer in production. The companies can't make money off of it anymore. There should be no reason that gamers still shouldn't be allowed to enjoy those games. With that said, that's why companies are re-releasing those games. They still hope that can suck some form of money from it.
Sony did take it a little too far. To persecute someone to that extent will undoubtedly have consequences. Anonymous is definitely wrong, as their actions affect gamers more than Sony. But there are times were the consumers need to show that they will not be pushed around by big corporations.
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No. It should be illegal. Hacking it already leads to pirating of games and other software.That is stealing.You wouldn't like it of somebody just stole what took you years to develop right?
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Mr.TifaLockhart wrote...
No. It should be illegal. Hacking it already leads to pirating of games and other software.That is stealing.You wouldn't like it of somebody just stole what took you years to develop right?Pretty much this.
Piracy only makes up a small fraction of what the total sales for a game is; less than 5% i would bet. The major beef with piracy is the chance of leaks i would think and not actually the downloading itself. Leaks can indefinitely hurt marketing campaigns and sales that a company has invested millions into.
Same can't be said for indie developers in which i whole heartily support in buying their games; considering they are pretty dirt cheap to start out with.
Tbh this whole piracy thing could be killed off if major cooperations like EA/Activison/Sony/Microsoft priced their software at more affordable prices; half of what they are now. Too bad everyone's motherfucking greedy though.
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ALL companies ARE greedy.
It's funny how they call sony greedy when a playstation gives you so much more as compared to other consoles like a blu-ray player for the same price.
These people need to get themselves a girlfriend or something.You cannot defeat "THE MAN"/"THE SYSTEM".
It's funny how they call sony greedy when a playstation gives you so much more as compared to other consoles like a blu-ray player for the same price.
These people need to get themselves a girlfriend or something.You cannot defeat "THE MAN"/"THE SYSTEM".
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Anesthetize wrote...
Tbh this whole piracy thing could be killed off if major cooperations like EA/Activison/Sony/Microsoft priced their software at more affordable prices; half of what they are now. Too bad everyone's motherfucking greedy though.
Watch this video.
Games are luxuries from the start, budget money for a game then buy it when you can afford it. There's plenty of free entertainment floating around on the internet.
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I think most of the hacking should be legal. Hacking so that you can use pirated games though, that pushes a bit beyond what I think should be legal. I mean I love my emulators and think they should be legal, mostly because most emulators are for older things that company's don't make money from anymore anyway.
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I should invent a device that is hack-proof.Trying to hack it would be like trying to reach the end of the outer space,you will NEVER make it.
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Well it kinda depends on the country and the price to me. For my country i think i will support this, because getting a fking game cost like around 1/10 of the console price. The Sony had to make countermeasure for this, but they should also take consideration to the reason of 'jail-breaking'. Another example is how people in other country are less buying pirated compare to mine, cuz getting a original cd is fricking expensive and most of the time it will, i mean will have defaults.
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I think the problem is not whether Sony is angry that someone has reverse engineered their hardware/software(though they do seem to like to have an iron fist over the control of the hardware/software), but that Hotz has potentially revealed company secrets about the PS3 on his website. Such as how the firmware is actually programmed, allowing someone to say, circumvent the PlayStation Network and download all the games that are on there for free. That's an example I can think of.
According to Wikipedia, Hotz posted root keys for the PS3. You may be wondering what the hell those might be. Well, since I haven't seen what they're actually related to, they could be anything. Though I'm quite certain that they are associated with digital certificates that are exchanged between your PS3 and Sony's login servers. These certificates are usually signed by either the company using them, or a third party certificate authority(usually Verisign). Read up about PKI's here.
The point is, I think those keys he posted may be the private keys that Sony sends down to your PS3 to make sure your data is encrypted when you login and buy games. In the right hands, someone could use those keys to decrypt information sent between their PS3 and Sony's servers. They could do that to anyone's PS3 and potentially steal login information and maybe get some free games from the PSN.
I'm going out on a limb on that but, again, I think Sony may be after him because he has posted information that can easily allow anyone to circumvent the PlayStation Network and get free shit.
So do I think hacking should be legal? Well, by the proper definition of hacking it already is legal. Usually when one hacks, they do it to learn how something works, modify, and improve upon the original design. This can be said of both hardware and software. This is fine as long as it's nothing malicious toward anyone or a company and doesn't potentially harm the business of a company.
Also, game consoles have been reverse engineered to some degree for ages now. I mean, there are tons of mod chips that are sold(albeit pretty shady) for nearly every console and I don't see anyone stopping the manufacture of them. I've modded my PlayStation1 so I can play Japanese and burned copies of games. I've also put a mod chip on an original Xbox so you can change out the hard drive and load custom software on it, such as Xbox Media Center. Check the legality section of reverse engineering Most EULA's have a clause against reverse engineering the software that it's for, which is what Hotz somewhat did, and posted his findings to the public.
According to Wikipedia, Hotz posted root keys for the PS3. You may be wondering what the hell those might be. Well, since I haven't seen what they're actually related to, they could be anything. Though I'm quite certain that they are associated with digital certificates that are exchanged between your PS3 and Sony's login servers. These certificates are usually signed by either the company using them, or a third party certificate authority(usually Verisign). Read up about PKI's here.
The point is, I think those keys he posted may be the private keys that Sony sends down to your PS3 to make sure your data is encrypted when you login and buy games. In the right hands, someone could use those keys to decrypt information sent between their PS3 and Sony's servers. They could do that to anyone's PS3 and potentially steal login information and maybe get some free games from the PSN.
I'm going out on a limb on that but, again, I think Sony may be after him because he has posted information that can easily allow anyone to circumvent the PlayStation Network and get free shit.
So do I think hacking should be legal? Well, by the proper definition of hacking it already is legal. Usually when one hacks, they do it to learn how something works, modify, and improve upon the original design. This can be said of both hardware and software. This is fine as long as it's nothing malicious toward anyone or a company and doesn't potentially harm the business of a company.
Also, game consoles have been reverse engineered to some degree for ages now. I mean, there are tons of mod chips that are sold(albeit pretty shady) for nearly every console and I don't see anyone stopping the manufacture of them. I've modded my PlayStation1 so I can play Japanese and burned copies of games. I've also put a mod chip on an original Xbox so you can change out the hard drive and load custom software on it, such as Xbox Media Center. Check the legality section of reverse engineering Most EULA's have a clause against reverse engineering the software that it's for, which is what Hotz somewhat did, and posted his findings to the public.
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If you've purchased said product with your own money. Why should said company care what happens to said product?
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[CO]Will wrote...
If you've purchased said product with your own money. Why should said company care what happens to said product?Because if you sell that information online you are stealing from the companies and gaining a profit off their product.
I mean if you created something and someone else was gaining profit off it wouldn't you sue them?
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To me, as long as there is no maliciuos intent, you have the right to do anything you want with it once you've paid for it.
it's like customizing a car. you can chop the roof, add hydralics, add an amp and big fat speakers. you cannot hide machine guns behind the head lights, add smoke screen, oil slick devices and change the licence plates.
i recall a case of a satalite television provider trying to sue a man just because he bought a device that could possibly be used to get their service for free. he never used or even intended to use it that way, but they didn't care.
[size=10]i wish i could remember more so i could find a citation.[/h]
it's like customizing a car. you can chop the roof, add hydralics, add an amp and big fat speakers. you cannot hide machine guns behind the head lights, add smoke screen, oil slick devices and change the licence plates.
i recall a case of a satalite television provider trying to sue a man just because he bought a device that could possibly be used to get their service for free. he never used or even intended to use it that way, but they didn't care.
[size=10]i wish i could remember more so i could find a citation.[/h]
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It should not be illegal but if you fuck up your system then it should all be on you is what I believe.