Hypothetical question on fatherhood and family
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Whether or not you are married to the child mother is irrelevant. As long as you know the child is yours, it doesn't matter what your situation is. A child can be raised happily in any situation as long as they have their parents affection and attention.
And if for gibbous his happiness is greater then that of an unborn child, then I believe you are making the right decision not having the child, because in my experience any fathers who feel that way don't change much after the baby is born. So then you are right, that child wont be happy. Not because of whatever situation you are in, but because you view the child as a burden instead of a blessing.
And if for gibbous his happiness is greater then that of an unborn child, then I believe you are making the right decision not having the child, because in my experience any fathers who feel that way don't change much after the baby is born. So then you are right, that child wont be happy. Not because of whatever situation you are in, but because you view the child as a burden instead of a blessing.
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razama wrote...
Whether or not you are married to the child mother is irrelevant. As long as you know the child is yours, it doesn't matter what your situation is. A child can be raised happily in any situation as long as they have their parents affection and attention.And if for gibbous his happiness is greater then that of an unborn child, then I believe you are making the right decision not having the child, because in my experience any fathers who feel that way don't change much after the baby is born. So then you are right, that child wont be happy. Not because of whatever situation you are in, but because you view the child as a burden instead of a blessing.
I'm sorry, but where did I state anything about marriage? Or was that directed towards Gibbous?
As for deciding to raise the child solely on the premise of knowing it is yours, regardless of your situation, I'm afraid that is nothing more than your opinion. Unless you can provide some solid evidence supporting the claim that a child can be happy, regardless of all else, as long as it's parents love it, then you are simply pushing your ideals.
I'll be back in a bit. I'm about to sit down to dinner.
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Monkeyskull wrote...
To answer the topic question:I do not think there is enough information in the question to provide a truthful and reasonable answer, at least not a personal answer.
There are many variables of the situation that could tip the balance for one possible choice or another. For example:
How long have we been dating?
How serious is the relationship?
Can I be sure the child is mine?
Yeah, you're right. I probably made the conditions a little too vague for some people to give an answer. Any number of factors could tip the scales one way or the other.
Let's try this scenario out:
You and the girl have been dating at least a year. The relationship is serious enough that you and her have thought about moving in together, getting an apartment together (something along those lines). And yes, you can be sure that the child is yours.
Hopefully this will be enough information for you to give an answer.
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That isn't just my opinion, and I only refered to marriage as an example of time when you asked "how serious is the relationship?" and "how long have we been dating?" Marriage was just an extreme example of an answer to both these questions.
And refering to whether the child is yours or not, do what you must to prove it to yourself. If want test, so be it, nothing wrong with that. But whether or not it is your child isn't what i'm trying to address right now.
All a child needs to be happy is a loving parent. What else would it need? material possessions? I know that isn't what your going to say.
A loving parent is the only unique factor. That parent doesn't have to biological, but other nessiccities of life are easily aquired, especially if that parent really loves that child.
There are plenty of people and orginizations that whole purpose exist to provide for mothers or fathers struggling to provide for there kids.
As long as you love your child it will be happy, even if you can't provide it much else.
They can be happy with others too sure, an adoptive parent, whoever else will love them like their own. But if you want to know all that you must provide for your child to be happy, the answer is just affection.
Hell, look at a goddamn dog. They'll love you even if you don't feed the things! They'll die loving you, even if you never could provide for it. So how much more will a child that can have a small understanding of the situation be happy knowing that you care.
If you needed more, then look at every child in rural Africa. Are everyone of those children unhappy? Does each one hate it's parents? That childs family is everything to them, even when they have no food or toys or clothes, they can find joy with their parents, and with other children.
Tell me, what does is it you are adament that this child gets for it to be happy?
And refering to whether the child is yours or not, do what you must to prove it to yourself. If want test, so be it, nothing wrong with that. But whether or not it is your child isn't what i'm trying to address right now.
All a child needs to be happy is a loving parent. What else would it need? material possessions? I know that isn't what your going to say.
A loving parent is the only unique factor. That parent doesn't have to biological, but other nessiccities of life are easily aquired, especially if that parent really loves that child.
There are plenty of people and orginizations that whole purpose exist to provide for mothers or fathers struggling to provide for there kids.
As long as you love your child it will be happy, even if you can't provide it much else.
They can be happy with others too sure, an adoptive parent, whoever else will love them like their own. But if you want to know all that you must provide for your child to be happy, the answer is just affection.
Hell, look at a goddamn dog. They'll love you even if you don't feed the things! They'll die loving you, even if you never could provide for it. So how much more will a child that can have a small understanding of the situation be happy knowing that you care.
If you needed more, then look at every child in rural Africa. Are everyone of those children unhappy? Does each one hate it's parents? That childs family is everything to them, even when they have no food or toys or clothes, they can find joy with their parents, and with other children.
Tell me, what does is it you are adament that this child gets for it to be happy?
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Thank you for clearing the marriage thing up.
As for the child being yours, that is of rather large importance. If it's not mine, why must I take care of it? If I am in a relationship with a woman and she is impregnated by a man other than me, what reason is there for me to take responsibility for another man's actions and the disloyalty and adultery of the woman? I did not want the child, and I'm assuming neither did the woman or man, considering I would have eventually found out I had been cheated on me which would cause quite a bit of conflict. If it was a mistake by both parties besides me, what obligation do I have to clean up their mess? Am I to use my money and life to nurture and provide for a child that I not only didn't want, but a child conceived through no actions of my own? Is it really fair that I be burdened with a formidable task such as child raising for two reckless individuals other than myself?
But I'll ignore all of that, since you don't want to discuss it.
Considering that you are still using your perception of happiness to apply to all children people, I guess I can't convince you that not all people simply need a person to care for them to make everything all right. I'll end this debate now, because I don't see it going anywhere. But I thank you for your time; I quite enjoyed myself with our chat.
I struck out the word children in my last paragraph because that's not all that this applies to. A small child can be made happy with very simply things. But eventually children grow up, and become more 'aware' of life, to a point where love doesn't simply make things fine. It's not a scenario where it only concerns a young child. It is a scenario that concerns two adults and a young child that will eventually become a teenager and then an adult, and will realize how their life has, is, and will be like.
As for the child being yours, that is of rather large importance. If it's not mine, why must I take care of it? If I am in a relationship with a woman and she is impregnated by a man other than me, what reason is there for me to take responsibility for another man's actions and the disloyalty and adultery of the woman? I did not want the child, and I'm assuming neither did the woman or man, considering I would have eventually found out I had been cheated on me which would cause quite a bit of conflict. If it was a mistake by both parties besides me, what obligation do I have to clean up their mess? Am I to use my money and life to nurture and provide for a child that I not only didn't want, but a child conceived through no actions of my own? Is it really fair that I be burdened with a formidable task such as child raising for two reckless individuals other than myself?
But I'll ignore all of that, since you don't want to discuss it.
Considering that you are still using your perception of happiness to apply to all children people, I guess I can't convince you that not all people simply need a person to care for them to make everything all right. I'll end this debate now, because I don't see it going anywhere. But I thank you for your time; I quite enjoyed myself with our chat.
I struck out the word children in my last paragraph because that's not all that this applies to. A small child can be made happy with very simply things. But eventually children grow up, and become more 'aware' of life, to a point where love doesn't simply make things fine. It's not a scenario where it only concerns a young child. It is a scenario that concerns two adults and a young child that will eventually become a teenager and then an adult, and will realize how their life has, is, and will be like.
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liger0 wrote...
Let's try this scenario out:You and the girl have been dating at least a year. The relationship is serious enough that you and her have thought about moving in together, getting an apartment together (something along those lines). And yes, you can be sure that the child is yours.
Given this situation, I would say that I would keep and raise the child, even if it is alone. Given the fact that I am considering getting an apartment with said woman, I can assume that both I and her are economically well enough to care for a child. At this point, weather I wanted the child or not, I would take responsibility for my actions. But ultimately it is the woman's decision what happens; I can not force her to follow my will, weather that be to give birth or to have an abortion.
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Monkeyskull wrote...
Thank you for clearing the marriage thing up.As for the child being yours, that is of rather large importance. If it's not mine, why must I take care of it? If I am in a relationship with a woman and she is impregnated by a man other than me, what reason is there for me to take responsibility for another man's actions and the disloyalty and adultery of the woman? I did not want the child, and I'm assuming neither did the woman or man, considering I would have eventually found out I had been cheated on me which would cause quite a bit of conflict. If it was a mistake by both parties besides me, what obligation do I have to clean up their mess? Am I to use my money and life to nurture and provide for a child that I not only didn't want, but a child conceived through no actions of my own? Is it really fair that I be burdened with a formidable task such as child raising for two reckless individuals other than myself?
But I'll ignore all of that, since you don't want to discuss it.
Considering that you are still using your perception of happiness to apply to all children people, I guess I can't convince you that not all people simply need a person to care for them to make everything all right. I'll end this debate now, because I don't see it going anywhere. But I thank you for your time; I quite enjoyed myself with our chat.
I struck out the word children in my last paragraph because that's not all that this applies to. A small child can be made happy with very simply things. But eventually children grow up, and become more 'aware' of life, to a point where love doesn't simply make things fine. It's not a scenario where it only concerns a young child. It is a scenario that concerns two adults and a young child that will eventually become a teenager and then an adult, and will realize how their life has, is, and will be like.
Okay so once again I ask, what else do they need to be happy?
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Provided it is indeed my child, the question only has one answer for me.
I am not selfish enough to run, and especially not selfish enough to push her to get an abortion. My life does not hold any more value than the child's, especially since both of our futures are unknown. Besides that, the kid deserves a chance at life, and it was my fault that it came into existence. The brunt of the responsibility is on my shoulders, and I will unquestionably accept that. No pleasure in life is worth killing my own flesh and blood.
Even if I had to give up my education and work myself into the grave to support my partner and child, I would. I would work with a fervor like I have never once used before in my life, and one way or another, that child would have a happy life.
To me, it's the only decent thing a man could do in such a situation.
I am not selfish enough to run, and especially not selfish enough to push her to get an abortion. My life does not hold any more value than the child's, especially since both of our futures are unknown. Besides that, the kid deserves a chance at life, and it was my fault that it came into existence. The brunt of the responsibility is on my shoulders, and I will unquestionably accept that. No pleasure in life is worth killing my own flesh and blood.
Even if I had to give up my education and work myself into the grave to support my partner and child, I would. I would work with a fervor like I have never once used before in my life, and one way or another, that child would have a happy life.
To me, it's the only decent thing a man could do in such a situation.
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kisukesword wrote...
I am not selfish enough to run, and especially not selfish enough to push her to get an abortion.How is getting an abortion being selfish? I can't understand. And running away has another word - cowardness.
kisukesword wrote...
My life does not hold any more value than the child's, especially since both of our futures are unknown.How does your life not hold more value than an unborn child? How? Both your futures are unknown, but you have a present and past. The fetus doesn't. I hasn't been born yet. Don't fuck up his future because of that way of thinking.
kisukesword wrote...
Besides that, the kid deserves a chance at life, and it was my fault that it came into existence. The brunt of the responsibility is on my shoulders, and I will unquestionably accept that. No pleasure in life is worth killing my own flesh and blood.I've said this before, but that is the problem! Don't you give a damn about giving your kids a nice and decent life without having to life through YOUR money problems and YOUR incapability of taking proper care of them?
kisukesword wrote...
Even if I had to give up my education and work myself into the grave to support my partner and child, I would. I would work with a fervor like I have never once used before in my life, and one way or another, that child would have a happy life.To me, it's the only decent thing a man could do in such a situation.
Are you fucking going to throw your life away just because you messed up and got her pregnant? Shit happens man. You can fix it before it's too late (before the child is born).
Seriously, don't you think it would be better if you had an abbortion, keep going with your lives and your carreer, and when you have a stable carreer and the proper means to support the child well enough, then you'll have the kid. Do you not think it's better?
[size=8]Sorry mate, I'm not trying to offend you. I just disagree with your way of viewing things. I got a bit pissed off there, that's all.[/h]
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Kuroneko1/2 wrote...
How is getting an abortion being selfish? I can't understand. And running away has another word - cowardness.
Well, in that case, I'm not a coward.
Kuroneko1/2 wrote...
How does your life not hold more value than an unborn child? How? Both your futures are unknown, but you have a present and past. The fetus doesn't. I hasn't been born yet. Don't fuck up his future because of that way of thinking.Because the child's future is completely unknown, it's not something that can be judged. On one hand, it might end up being the person that humanity has been needing for hundreds of years now. On the other hand, he might just be another average person. Either way, it deserves a shot at life.
Kuroneko1/2 wrote...
I've said this before, but that is the problem! Don't you give a damn about giving your kids a nice and decent life without having to life through YOUR money problems and YOUR incapability of taking proper care of them?I'm 20 years old right now, 21 next february. I'm not a teenager, and as such, I can and will find some sort of employment. Even if I have to take several jobs, I will. The child might not have every luxury on the planet, but I'd ensure that that my wife and child have the best quality food I can buy, good clothes, and roof over their heads. My parents were similarly poor, and my childhood wasn't diminished for it; I would make that happen here as well.
Kuroneko1/2 wrote...
Are you fucking going to throw your life away just because you messed up and got her pregnant? Shit happens man. You can fix it before it's too late (before the child is born).Seriously, don't you think it would be better if you had an abbortion, keep going with your lives and your carreer, and when you have a stable carreer and the proper means to support the child well enough, then you'll have the kid. Do you not think it's better?
I don't view it as "a problem" that can be solved with a single decision. That child is a life... one of my offspring that I will never again have a chance to meet, get to know, care for, and love. And throw away my life? What are you talking about? Honestly, there's not that much more to life than the grind of working and returning home every day anyway. Supporting a child just means I'd have to work harder.
Besides that, taking care of and raising a child is a adventure and experience all of its own. I really don't see something like this as "ruining my life", but simply trading one life experience in for another.
If it helps, keep in mind that I have never been the wild type. My personality doesn't fit it. I don't go to parties, I don't bang anything with a hole, I don't drink, I don't smoke, none of that... my life is pretty calm and stable, so aside from working my ass off, becoming a parent wouldn't be all that large of a change.
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I'm also not the wild type either. Well, I don't have much more to say. I guess that's just your way of thinking. If that will bring you joy, then do it.
(I tried to write something more but nothing coherent is comming out)
(I tried to write something more but nothing coherent is comming out)
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I don't know, I just don't see living for myself and nothing more as something that desirable or something to be protected.
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What do mean "living for myself and nothing more"? Don't you have a partner?
I was just saying that a child should be desired and should grow up in a stable environment. And not facing it as "I got her pregnant, so now I have to take responsability for it". But it seems that isn't the case for you.
I was just saying that a child should be desired and should grow up in a stable environment. And not facing it as "I got her pregnant, so now I have to take responsability for it". But it seems that isn't the case for you.
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I think it best to politely agree to disagree, as some people don't see living with their partner and nothing more as something that desirable or something to be protected, whereas others don't see pumping out a unit as something that desirable or something to be protected.
/thread.
/thread.
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Kuroneko1/2 wrote...
What do mean "living for myself and nothing more"? Don't you have a partner?I was just saying that a child should be desired and should grow up in a stable environment. And not facing it as "I got her pregnant, so now I have to take responsability for it". But it seems that isn't the case for you.
I don't have a partner in real life currently, but in this situation, obviously I would... even then, living for my partner isn't going to be much of a difference, especially if she works and supports herself for the most part.
As for the child, it might not have been expected, but that doesn't mean it wasn't wanted. Even if it weren't wanted to begin with, it wouldn't be long at all before it was wanted - probably even before birth. I'm not the type of person that regrets a child's birth.
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I would be Makoto Itou, manly man of the 21th century!
On a more serious note, if it was my baby I would still let it go and probably break up with the girl unless she threatens to kill me.
On a more serious note, if it was my baby I would still let it go and probably break up with the girl unless she threatens to kill me.
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If I got a girl pregnat, and she decided to keep it (where I live it is 100% the girls decision) I would without any doubt be there for the kid in any way I can both phycically and financially. But I don't think that 'just' because I got a girl pregnant that I have a responserbility to her, I would of cause like to be able to fall in love and live with the mother of my child, but I know that now a days this is far from given, so in the example given I would only be sure to do right by my child, and then also do a honest efford to have a relationship with the mother, but that relationship would have to work on its own merits, and not just 'work' because of the kid.
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Well..
In my case i knew that she was pregnant..
we were dating at the time and i was going to pop the question anyways..
so it really dident matter to me that she got pregnant i just got to ask her sooner then i was going to in the first place..
i now have a 2yr old daughter and i have a son on the way..
so i think that it is right to do the right thing and either support with money/ child support or by staying with her helping with bills, food, ect. and watching your kid grow..
In my case i knew that she was pregnant..
we were dating at the time and i was going to pop the question anyways..
so it really dident matter to me that she got pregnant i just got to ask her sooner then i was going to in the first place..
i now have a 2yr old daughter and i have a son on the way..
so i think that it is right to do the right thing and either support with money/ child support or by staying with her helping with bills, food, ect. and watching your kid grow..