Laws Against Aiding Homeless

Seriously, I'd be shocked if a police officier actually arrested someone for handing food to a homeless person. It's the law, but I doubt police are going to waste their time enforcing it.

EDIT:
you mean this one ziggy?

Amazing athiest is fucking awesome

Tch, hate that about as much as those damn religious commercials telling you to send your care packages and money to help a homeless and starving child overseas. I'm sorry if this makes me cold-hearted, but I'd rather help someone in my own country before I go help some starving child in Africa; if a country can't even taken care of it's own people they have no business intervening in the lives of other countries.

This is a good example of why I never watch the news. It's just full of stuff that will piss me off.

This is a good example of why I watch the news, dissatisfaction is the fuel for any citizen of a free society.

It's been in place for awhile now, but the law that makes people in seattle need a permit to busk is a crock of shit. Here in Tacoma, they've made it illegal to "panhandle" on public streets. This includes the Fill the Boot Muscular Dystrophy Benefit, making this my least favorite law of all fucking time. For a bit, I was thinking of some kind of protest...get a couple hundred musicians to light up downtown, asking for no money, with signs saying the law is bullshit, but I don't know enough others to make a difference, and this was enacted quite awhile ago...many don't see it as an issue anymore.

What I want to know is why everyone seems to think people want homes.
I've spoken to a couple of people who are homeless to get away from money problems, like high rent or bad credit, or have freedom to do what the fuck they please--regardless of who says otherwise. Would it be wrong to give people the CHOICE, rather than shoving them into shelters, or driving them away, like vermin of some kind?
Hell, if I had a decent van, and a YMCA membership, I'd be pretty goddamn happy showering at the gym and playing guitar all day.

Well that just sucks I didn't know something like that was actually going on. Where I live at the college I'm going to there are some people who have some kind of event going on every year I think where they gather up donations and such to help the homeless. They even gather up boxes and sleep in them on certain days though I'm not quite sure why and how that does help the homeless. I've never done anything to help out someone who's homeless nor have I actually seen any where I live atm, but when I go up to salt lake city for my mom's appointment I see them sometimes on the trains. It's hard to day how they will react because I guess most are actually pretty nice people hell they even help the cops out from time to time from what I've heard. Then you got the others who have basically given up on life and no matter wtf you do for them there just gonna go and waste it all way. Anyways I think it's just a load a bs our country is pretty fucked up as is with everything else and for this to be going on just makes it even worse.

Yea, because locking people away for existing on the street, asking for money, or getting fed at the expense and the will of the one who's feeding them is not a fucking infringement on their rights.

Did you read the report?

If they lock them up for such bullshit they are not only showing you have even less freedom than you think, they are unjustly infringing on their fucking rights.



Not only that, but by making it a fucking "crime", those who have been arrested for such "crimes" have a criminal record and have even a less chance of ever finding a job.



You are fucking unbelievable, bro. Not only do you say,


but you fucking provide a video which shows a dude getting arrested because the fucking cops enforced that stupid law, all in the same fucking post.

Just to let people know, this isn't something new nor is it a local issue (for the Americans). Loitering laws have been in effect for years and it's in most every country. This law sucks, but I don't know how else they're going to keep public property clean and uncrowded. Imagine if it were not a law, and everywhere you went you saw a homeless person. The parks would have a homeless person on every bench, maybe even on the ground. Steps to public property might have homeless person on it and so on.

The kicker for me though was the fact that it was against the law to help a homeless person... What. The. Fuck.

Just because it's not "new" doesn't mean it isn't wrong.
Your example is a gross exaggeration of what things would look like. Laws like this in place aren't the reason people don't see the homeless, it's the intolerant attitude many take--making it a lot easier to just move into a tree-band somewhere.

By the way, what's wrong with chilling on a bench, the ground, or a bunch of steps? They aren't bothering people--so what's wrong with existing?

But dude, I don't want to find some smelly homeless people on my way to the park, now do I?

I really doubt it's wrong as I'm sure it is agreed by the public that they want to look at clean scenery. If they really think it's wrong, they'll donate to a homeless shelter instead of throwing a shit fit. I also think these people should help out the homeless if they really feel strongly about it, but then the other law makes it impossible to do it. I would have to agree the said law is wrong.


I think you underestimate the homeless people in America (and probably everywhere else) especially in big cities, and how desperate they are. If it weren't for the law, what I've said might be an understatement. If they see a suitable spot, they'll claim it.


I never said it was wrong to exist and I never said there's anything wrong with chilling on a bench, the ground or the steps. I do, however, have a problem if people made it their residence making it so that no one else could use the public property that we all share in the expense paying for (taxes).

Do you seriously have to take everything I say to the extreme? Yeah, I'd be suprised if any police actually arrested someone for this. So does that mean I don't think it ever happen? No. But it would be suprising. If it wasn't, it wouldn't of showed up on the news. If you noticed,that law wasn't a new law. It was only news worthy because of the fact that it was enforced.

And just because you get arrested doesn't mean you have a record. I've been arrested but I don't have a record. The man on the video was arrested, he wasn't in jail probably more than a day.

And last, yoiu say it violates their rights. Sorry but, it MAY violate their rights. None of this has been ruled in a court of law so you can't say that.

You can't, you are not even allowed to feed or aid the homeless due to some of these laws. This is where the true outrage occurs. If people are being arrested for feeding them then society has definitely taken a step backwards.

Whitelion and I had a discussion a while back that simply giving these people food and shelter isn't enough. We as a society should find a way o reintegrate these people back into society. Turn shelters into some form of half-way house for helping these people get back on their feet.

An example would be a homeless person could go to the "shelter" and be given a simple bed, clothing, food,etc. Basically, clean them up physically so they would be suitable for jobs. Then the shelter would have the person go to work doing something that an unskilled laborer could do. An example of this would be entry level positions at a McDonalds, working in a warehouse, picking up trash on the side of the road,etc. Also these people would be required to attend a workshop or class on how to get another job,etc. The shelter could charge a small fee or percent of the paycheck to help pay for the cloths, food, among the other expenses.

With some practical tweaks to the system you could take a guy who has lost everything through some bad luck or decisions and give them another chance to become a productive member of society.

Well there are already programs like that, the problem is getting people to use them.

There are some places that are lacking though, like in states such as florida where they drop their homeless off at a homeless camp, under the interstate. That is ridiculous.

Penguin, I vote for you as the next president.

I'm using that in reference to the anti-loitering and vagrancy laws. Was there some kind of misunderstanding?
Also: I don't much care about clean scenery...but I'm not the "public". My big gripe is that people are persecuting others based upon their lifestyle, be it chosen or otherwise.
Public transit smells like ass. If you don't like it-don't ride the bus.
There is an ass smelling guy at that bench. If you don't like it-don't sit on that bench.

In all honesty, I don't see a huge issue with having many of these laws in place. I liken this to enforcing penalties for personal use marijuana. Give warning, take drugs, send person on their way. Give warning, move along, send people on their way.
If you keep many of the shelters, or designated areas *like tent city* open to settlement then they are able to keep to themselves more. When you keep forcing people to uproot every time a neighbor complains, you end up displacing the displaced--aggravating the problem rather than attempting to fix it.
Why couldn't people use it? Put regulations in place, keeping people from taking up permanent residency, rather than prohibiting them from using a public space for a consecutive twelve hours.
With laws in place to prevent littering and public indecency, I can't see a standing argument not to let people sleep there.
(No, really, convince me.)

I see no incentive to remain homeless so I find it difficult to accept the idea that somebody would desire to remain homeless no matter how prideful or ashamed they are.



I believe you are thinking of something else entirely but, homeless camps are spreading like this one in Reno, Nevada..



I happily accept your vote in 2024. Penguin '24

Edit: Lol I just remembered that the unofficial "mascot" of the Libertarian Party is the penguin. Which is so much better than that dumb porcupine. I should start a petition to make the "LP" or "Liberty Penguin" their mascot or some sort of penguin.

Maybe not, but the fact that you can get arrested for this and can also get a criminal record from this is the problem.


You obviously haven't read the report. There's no point of talking with you further if you continue to talk about something you do not know.


Because of these business assholes in america, we have to convince them(cities and governments) using business terms like the NLCHP does when they mention the bottom line and how it would be more efficient to not jail them.

Well, yeah I was just using the Flordia problem as an example. It's become more of a problem recently becasue of the economy. And YOU might find it hard to believe that people would rather remain homeless then get help, but that is the reality of things.

Of course, plenty of people do put aside their pridefullness to accept help, but just as many choose not to.

I also found it interesting to apply business law to the feeding the homeless situation. You make an offer(I will give you food) and the homeless person accepts this offer. You have now formed a unilateral contract which is perfectly legal because it was formed between consenting adults without fraud involved(poisoned food and shit), and does not need to be a written contract because the stipulation doesn't fall under the statute of frauds. The contract is completed when the homeless person takes the food. Perfectly legal within business law, with no harm to any third party.
But this is the type of contract they are specifically attacking, and not all the other contracts similar to this one. Point is that it would be fucked up to make it illegal.