North Korea: Yodok concentration camp

@ Anesthetize
I would say Daedauls does have some merit in the childish attitude comment, and yes this may be a Hentai Forum this is sub section labeled as Serious Discussion which is meant for serious discussion. So your dismissal of a few civilized characteristics when making posts because of that reason to me seems invalid.

Now back to the chat: As a United States Citizen myself, I will say yes we have a past. Some of the stuff we have and may of done is not all that great BUT NO COUNTRY can say they haven't done anything controversial or that everything fine and perfect. These days with the International community we are in the strange/awkward position in the worlds eyes that, "We are damned if do, and we are Damned if we don't." so when it comes to getting ourselves involved with stuff we think it over first even if doesn't seem like if we do. But as oneshott said "We can help people while advancing our own goals at the same time you know." and we are greatly criticized for it.

On the main subject why we don't get involved with North Korea, lack of popular sway, lack of involvement with the international community to actually step in, and we won't be doing much in the region without China's support since china is really sensitive on matters in that region of the world and specifically North Korea. Something may be done, but not until more of international community and china get vocal or something happens in North Korea that destabilizes the government.

Very well said. Why is it that America always has to be the savior of the world? That's gotten nowhere so far. I'm pretty sure Iraqis still hate America, even though they got rid of Sadam. Afghanistan citizens probably feel the same, despite the US liberating them from the Taliban. Tensions with Pakistan are rising by the day. Iran is as hostile as ever. Why the hell would the US want to raise tensions with another country, a country with wmd's no less? That's just bringing WWIII closer and closer, and that is something nobody wants to experience.

sigh, why are people idiots. I stopped taking your answer seriously when you said " I'm pretty sure Iraqis still hate America, even though they got rid of Sadam.".

Yeah, and i'm pretty sure that the Holocaust wasn't real. Assumptions and personal prejudices have no place in geo-poltical arguments so i'd prefer you to stay out of such topics if you're going to make such dumb statements with no evidence.

[font=verdana][color=green]I just noticed this, so I thought I'd give my two pence on this.

The main reason why we aren't hearing as much about Syria than Libya is simply because Syria refuses any foreign journalist into the country. They even refused the Arab League's associates entry into the country, so they couldn't assess the scale of the horror in the country. If you can't get news from the country, then you can't report the news to the rest of the world.

But yes, undoubtedly the States does get some benefit from not getting involved. With Obama having elections coming up, I severely doubt he would want to leave one country and then just go to another. Political suicide.

How did this turn from a discussion on North Korean Dictatorship and State-sponsored Terrorism on it's own people into a discussion about the Arab Spring and the effects of the Middle Eastern War? Oh, nevertheless I'll join in because there's a heavy misconception about Libya. Namely, that we were supporting "Innocent rebels" luls. http://thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/africa-mainmenu-27/9005-libyan-rebels-accused-of-ethnic-cleansing-black-genocide

In violation of International Law(and violating the basic premise of why we went to war in 2003 to begin with), Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have essentially supported state-sponsored terrorism in Libya, just for the purpose of removing Gaddafi. As noted, due to the oil. Gaddafi, like Saddam before him wanted an Arab-Nationalist Libya. And that meant a lack of contracts to English Corporations. Obviously, Gaddafi was a dictator but we had about as much rights to remove him, as Iranians have the right to remove our president.

Libya, like Iraq and so many of the other countries we're involved with(including Iran and that conflict will cost us dearly. It will bring nuclear powers China, Russia and potentially Syria all in one big bloc against the U.S. and weakened Western Allies) had no weapons or military advances towards the homeland, there was no need for immediate action on our part.

Frankly, we're on the side of the Axis and the year is 1944. Soon, we'll see our own Battle of Stalingrad that will turn the tide against us. And Americans will see for the first time, what the results of 10 years of ignorance have been.

Not really. Libya enforced exactly the same sanctions to foreign media as you've just mentioned during the early days of the uprising. The media in this time just turned to the government for their information instead.

Oh look Kim Jong-Il is dead. I hope the next little dictator is stable.

No way in hell. His successor is a lazy ass gamer that almost got disowned by Il himself.
I can only imagine the brat plays online games in his all-so-comfortable room and just let his people starve (again).

[font=verdana][color=green]No, that's wrong. That one was disowned. It's actually his third son, Kim Jung-un, that is succeeding him. From what I know, he is as twisted and cruel as Kim Jung-il.

Overall, nothing will change from Kim Jung-il's death. Just getting a newer, healthier model - seems fit for some tyranny I think.

North Korea already has a stable dictatorship which is not a good thing. The next dictator is going to be as cruel as his father to uphold the legacy of the family.

If that's so, then Jong il must have been on an assload of drugs to make him his successor. After all, Jong un wasn't his only son.

This is a very worrying time. They launched a test missile off the east coast.

[font=verdana][color=green]-sigh- You know, if you read people's posts, it won't make you seem ignorant.

If you ever played the game "homefront" and saw their into video this is exactly how everything starts. The fact that Kim Jong Un is a gamer doesnt mean that he would be less deadly if not more deadly than his father, his gaming gives him a much wider imagination for creating problems for everyone else. Dont count a gamer short just because hes a gamer, he will kick yo A**.
Here the homefront video also, pretty accurate prediction so far.

hell maybe Un saw this when he was playing and wanted to make it a reality

[font=verdana][color=green]Okay, I'm just going to spell this out now - again - just so people don't continue to make the same mistake.

Kim Jung-un is not a gamer. Never has been and I doubt he ever will be. Il's eldest son, Kim Jung-nam, was a gamer, but he was disowned by Il, due to being arrested in Tokyo with a forged passport - believed to want to visit Disneyland. Il's second son, Kim Jung-chul is more mysterious, but it's generally accepted that Il didn't see him fit to succeed him. Then that leaves Kim Jung-un, the heir apparent.

The problem isn't whether this son is cruel or not - as it's generally known that he is (a Missile launch that resulted in the death of 4 South Koreans was his idea) - but how well will he be able to control the Korean's elite. Not only is the party in power, but it's other parties and the military which are vying to take that power for themselves. Il was more than capable to handle them, but Un didn't finish being prepared to succeed by Il - this raises questions as to his capability to lead. With his Uncle and Aunt being very powerful members in North Korean politics, it should be safe to assume that Un will be fine.

But no, the situation that Homefront "predicts" will never happen. The North and South will never, ever unite; they simply are just too different from each other to be able to live together. North Korea is too famine stricken for South Korea to even want to merge with them; South Korea has too many allies in the West for North Korea to want to merge with them. South Korea has tried providing the North with supplies and food in the past, but North Korea labelled them smear campaigns and threatened to destroy the South if it continued. In fact, South Korea is very important to the West due to it's connection with the North; if shit goes down in North Korea, South Korea will be the first to be able to respond.

Actually, re-unification might not be as far-fetched as you may seem to think. Wikileaks has indicated that China doesn't need NK as a buffer state no more however back then they were concerned about the craziness of Jong-Il at times, but with a more moderate, Western-educated, 3rd son now in power, this might change. With enough pressure from China and the US, a re-unification might be possible. However in saying that, how many SK's actually want re-unification is probably the question.

The reunification of North and South Korea seems to be paralleled in Tales of Symphonia 2 where you have Teth'alla, technologically and economically advanced world, reuniting with Sylvarant, still in the middle ages in terms of development and economy. Obvious that there are problems with class wars and stuff.

Doesn't really surprise me. It's horrible, but things like that happen everyday.

I heard that the 2nd son was too girly for Kim Jong-Il.

Most South Koreans think It'd be a money issue seeing how North Korea's only economy is trading with China and selling hacked MMO accounts over the interwebz.

As disturbing as it was, there is nothing we could do about it - red Chinese communist kept them as pets just like US kept Israel. NOTHING except several dozen of ICBMs will woke them up