Political Discussion and Social Implications
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I sometimes find that people are decent and respectful to each other in every day chatter but when the topic shifts to politics a great shit-storm starts and they forget how to be human beings. Their social interactions get divided and strained and they treat the other radically different afterwards as if politics sums up everything a person is. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I liken it to football 'rivals' and their fans hating on each other just because they prefer one team over another. I find this to be ludicrously asinine and I ask you why do these people do this? Are beliefs about a certain party's agenda, who's in office, etc. really worth shitting on relationships with friends or family? I don't understand why they can't just talk about it calmly and respectfully tolerate someone's views even if they don't share it.
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Well, I don't know, if you noticed, but the same thing happens when people talk about religion too. Or any other topic for that matter ...
People tend to take specific topics personal. The moment a human mind takes something personal, it gets ugly and we forget about tolerance and respecting each other's opinion, because we feel that every opinion opposite to ours is directly threatening our values, us as persons.
Most people experience something like that sooner or later, no matter what topic. It just depends on what your mind takes as very personal and emotional and here we go.
People who can stay calm and rational no matter how tough the situation is they found themselves in are very rare, and if you are not one of those ... well ... you either prepare yourself to get emotional, irrational and even aggressive about some topic at some point in your life - or you start training yourself to become someone as calm and rational (which is a very fucked up and hard thing to do btw).
People tend to take specific topics personal. The moment a human mind takes something personal, it gets ugly and we forget about tolerance and respecting each other's opinion, because we feel that every opinion opposite to ours is directly threatening our values, us as persons.
Most people experience something like that sooner or later, no matter what topic. It just depends on what your mind takes as very personal and emotional and here we go.
People who can stay calm and rational no matter how tough the situation is they found themselves in are very rare, and if you are not one of those ... well ... you either prepare yourself to get emotional, irrational and even aggressive about some topic at some point in your life - or you start training yourself to become someone as calm and rational (which is a very fucked up and hard thing to do btw).
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In my area, it's usually politics and not religion that stirs up this kind of reaction so I didn't generalize.
I don't understand how that threatens personal values. If I know someone is homosexual I don't think that's a threat to my sexuality. I understand that some people take certain topics personal but I don't think that's a good reason to yell and berate a person who conflicts with their views. I think persuasion would be more effective if there's a calm discussion, not a pissing match.
Is this problem rooted in education? Upbringing? Social environment? Media?
How do you deal with it if someone does this to you? Ignoring only goes so far for me if I want to talk to them without them bringing up a topic we disagree on.
It would be sad if it's truly rare for people to not alienate for personal ideology.
I don't understand how that threatens personal values. If I know someone is homosexual I don't think that's a threat to my sexuality. I understand that some people take certain topics personal but I don't think that's a good reason to yell and berate a person who conflicts with their views. I think persuasion would be more effective if there's a calm discussion, not a pissing match.
Is this problem rooted in education? Upbringing? Social environment? Media?
How do you deal with it if someone does this to you? Ignoring only goes so far for me if I want to talk to them without them bringing up a topic we disagree on.
It would be sad if it's truly rare for people to not alienate for personal ideology.
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People judge based on there own personal preferences.They associate themselves with what they like and distance and/or ridicule that of which they dislike. Politics has many different issues to deliberate,as well as many different sides to choose from, and each side has different approaches to handling these issues. I don't really know why people take it to such extremes.Like i said earlier people distance themselves and ever ridicule that of which they don't like;so, *I assume*, they just use people and there political views to extend that animosity closer to the views they don't like.
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I get very riled up about certain things, often in politics. Often this happens because political discussion represent the enforcement of the values we believe most desperately in. Of course, even when we do get riled up it is important to maintain the rules of civil discourse otherwise nobody comes to any agreement. I think that even thought people have a right to get angry and upset, they do not have the right to favor spouting their impulses and whims rather than making an effort to address the situation in an effective way that takes into objective account their opposition.
Personally, I get very upset when talking about the system itself. Healthcare, education, economics, making systems work is my entire life's work and when people make factual errors that result in malignant or dysfunctional systems I get very upset and I do not refrain from shouting when people are pompous about instating a system that does not work and then ignoring the problems later.
BUT! I maintain the rules of civil discourse, and while I am "adamant" I directly address what the opposition has said with as much objective information as possible before I discuss my personal stance. I also avoid slinging insults, at the time of discussion anyways.
The problem as to why there is a lack of civil discourse is dependant on whether you are talking about the political stage or people in general. For people in general I would say that it simply has not been an important factor in their upbringing, certainly not as important as propaganda and hate mongering.
In the education system we have in the US now you are supposed to sit down and shut up. You are made afraid of cheating and plaigarism. You are forced to learn to cite your sources but not encouraged in any way to care about what you are writing, which is further enforced by many teacher's insistence that you refrain from writing anything that is not a paraphrased quote or apart of a small list of topics. Debate clubs are a joke, as they do not enforce discussion but rather the ability to stick to your guns as much as possible. Most study groups discourage their members from taking time to discuss the material in depth in favor of speed.
Many students end up feeling insecure about academics and end up disparaging those who share their thoughts about a topic, with the depth of the thoughts and lack of confidence on the topic determining the liklihood.
Among the hate mongering most children receive at home, coupled by most parent's use of intimidation and the "I'm right because I gave you birth now shut up and do as I command" rule, the hierarchy sported by most roving packs of feral children is that of charismatic cults.
So my question is, is it any wonder that when people grow up they act the way they do?
In summarary, there is no magic switch when people become adults.
Personally, I get very upset when talking about the system itself. Healthcare, education, economics, making systems work is my entire life's work and when people make factual errors that result in malignant or dysfunctional systems I get very upset and I do not refrain from shouting when people are pompous about instating a system that does not work and then ignoring the problems later.
BUT! I maintain the rules of civil discourse, and while I am "adamant" I directly address what the opposition has said with as much objective information as possible before I discuss my personal stance. I also avoid slinging insults, at the time of discussion anyways.
The problem as to why there is a lack of civil discourse is dependant on whether you are talking about the political stage or people in general. For people in general I would say that it simply has not been an important factor in their upbringing, certainly not as important as propaganda and hate mongering.
In the education system we have in the US now you are supposed to sit down and shut up. You are made afraid of cheating and plaigarism. You are forced to learn to cite your sources but not encouraged in any way to care about what you are writing, which is further enforced by many teacher's insistence that you refrain from writing anything that is not a paraphrased quote or apart of a small list of topics. Debate clubs are a joke, as they do not enforce discussion but rather the ability to stick to your guns as much as possible. Most study groups discourage their members from taking time to discuss the material in depth in favor of speed.
Many students end up feeling insecure about academics and end up disparaging those who share their thoughts about a topic, with the depth of the thoughts and lack of confidence on the topic determining the liklihood.
Among the hate mongering most children receive at home, coupled by most parent's use of intimidation and the "I'm right because I gave you birth now shut up and do as I command" rule, the hierarchy sported by most roving packs of feral children is that of charismatic cults.
So my question is, is it any wonder that when people grow up they act the way they do?
In summarary, there is no magic switch when people become adults.
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I think people should leave all those shinanigens behind and be cool with each other.
Just because one has a different view on things or suddenly picks a side opposite of his friends does not make them an enemy.
Just because one has a different view on things or suddenly picks a side opposite of his friends does not make them an enemy.
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Legendary_Dollci wrote...
I think people should leave all those shinanigens behind and be cool with each other.Just because one has a different view on things or suddenly picks a side opposite of his friends does not make them an enemy.
Oh but it does.
The extreme example are people who think rape is good for you, that stabbing someone in the throat is a great way to settle a thumb wrestling match, and so on and so forth. But even something that is far more reasonable, or at least with a deal of justification, can attack what you believe. People can do things that it would betray yourself not to stand against them.
For me, I grow angry, and even violent if huniliation of another is at hand, when those nearby refuse to believe in the importance of human dignity. For me, human dignity is one of the few things worth living and dying for. To see it trampled upon by sadistic cynacism is a betrayal of who I am, anyone who works towards it is my enemy and a threat to my family.
It is a vulnerability, I know, but I do not see it as a weakness.
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WolfgangLuciferMclain wrote...
Legendary_Dollci wrote...
I think people should leave all those shinanigens behind and be cool with each other.Just because one has a different view on things or suddenly picks a side opposite of his friends does not make them an enemy.
Oh but it does.
The extreme example are people who think rape is good for you, that stabbing someone in the throat is a great way to settle a thumb wrestling match, and so on and so forth. But even something that is far more reasonable, or at least with a deal of justification, can attack what you believe. People can do things that it would betray yourself not to stand against them.
For me, I grow angry, and even violent if huniliation of another is at hand, when those nearby refuse to believe in the importance of human dignity. For me, human dignity is one of the few things worth living and dying for. To see it trampled upon by sadistic cynacism is a betrayal of who I am, anyone who works towards it is my enemy and a threat to my family.
It is a vulnerability, I know, but I do not see it as a weakness.
I get your point.. but I was implying to the less dangerous and horrific parts.
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Daedalus_ wrote...
why do these people do this?It feels good to be 'right'. It grants a temporary feeling of superiority, and by extension, you feel 'special'. Everyone, to varying degrees, wants to feel special.
Daedalus_ wrote...
Are beliefs about a certain party's agenda, who's in office, etc. really worth shitting on relationships with friends or family?This is entirely relative to each person. It's not worth it to me, but I'm sure there are many others who would greatly prefer to be 'right', than to be living in harmony with loved ones.
Daedalus_ wrote...
I don't understand why they can't just talk about it calmly and respectfully tolerate someone's views even if they don't share it.I think for a lot of people.. to give up the fight to 'be right', or 'convert the non-believer' is to admit that they themselves may in fact, be wrong.
Admitting you don't have it all figured out, humbles you. You then look at everyone else, and realize there's a very plausible chance that they're wrong, too. When you admit that to yourself, you accept the 'same-ness' between yourself and the rest of the world.
But why be just another human,
when you can be special?
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Politics directly influence your life. When someone has a different opinion it usually means that they A: want to change your life and B: they want to do it for reasons that you think is retarded. And I don't think people like that. Atleast that's why I get really frustrated and aggressive during some political debates, the thought of some retards doing what they want with the country/people just infuriates me.