Serious question for atheists

Adults with imaginary friends are stupid.

Religion was designed and continues to be a method of control based on fear for the masses.

Enjoy following your shepard as "sheep", because that's what you are, and sheep are too stupid to judge the fiber or motives for their shepard.

Tl;dr, you're fucking stupid and should die in survival of the fittest or be sheltered and used as tools by someone strong.

Here we have the opposite side of the spectrum from the Religious nutjob.

Thanks for demonstrating the opposite side of the spectrum.

@Kalistean:

I believe that your definition of 'faith' is a little off from what everybody else has in their mind.

Can you illustrate how your kind of 'faith=irrationality=science is also partially irrational' work in the field of science?

I would also love to hear about what is this 'scientific method' you have in your mind when you are using it oh-so-fervently in your examples.

And stop dodging, please.

I can't speak for other religions, but the Judeo-Christian tradition that you claim to know intimately does not posit an understanding of God's power. It's just implied that he was there at the beginning, but nothing further is stated; nor do we know how his power to create things works. So to blanketly say that religion claims knowledge of "all the truths of the universe" seems inaccurate to say the least.

To quote Lovecraft, The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

Lovecraft isn't exactly the best person to quote, being he was a pretty staunch atheist. If you've ever read his work (and I'm guessing you have) you would clearly know why he said this quote, given he is a horror writer.

I don't claim to know "intimately" as that would imply I actually believed this stuff at some point. I do however read a lot and did numerous studies on religious texts throughout my adult life. All of which AT LEAST make unprovable claims about the nature of reality, life and even the god they put on a pedestal. So, whilst this may not be "all the truths of the universe", it is basically saying that they are in on something that others are not.

Also, where is the "beginning" for an omniscient and eternal creator? Surely something must have created it, I mean it's too complex to just have sprung up on it's own.

Faith is the belief in something that cannot be proven.

What scientific method am I talking about? The one that science uses.

Do you want me to go into an elementary level of education to explain what it is or something? I mean, it's kind of the thing that gets taught at a pretty basic level you know.

I'm stating, that the scientific method cannot be proven, because the scientific method is how science proves things. Using something to prove itself will generate bias and cannot be used as evidence for this reason. So you basically have a system that runs on being unable to prove it works other than that it is a good idea and seems to work well.

That is faith. Belief in something that cannot be proven. The fact that the scientific method is used throughout the entirety of science, means that the faith you are using with it, has to be spread to everything it touches. So while there are things that you can consider hard cold facts, they are only able to concretely demonstrate themselves. The second you start to have to infer them into something more, you have started yourself down the scientific method.




Kgods:


If you look at the fact that people of the particular religion, believe something that you do not, then, in a sense, they are in on something you are not. Yes, religion does make a lot of unprovable claims. But that isn't what religion is about, or should be about as there are people who try to make it about that. It's about exploring the possibilities of the why.

Yes anyone who claims they can prove something concretely or know something concretely about it is pretty much wrong. However, that doesn't mean people cannot use philosophical evidence to support their belief in said religion and why they believe in their deity the way they do.


As for where God could have come from. Again, the fact that his existence (how about I go with if he does exist) would be above our understanding, that means there are forces that we could not even fathom. It's not that there has to be something that created him, it's just that we cannot grasp the concept of there having always been God because we aren't on that level of understanding.

I was thinking more about the words he wrote than his personal beliefs when I quoted him (or rather, when I quoted one of his characters). While I don't agree that the gods are uncaring and merciless, I do like the flavor of that particular quote because it resists the general assumption that science has or will have an answer for absolutely everything. And yes, Lovecraft is one of my favorite writers, so if you feel I've misused his words out of context, I apologize.

Have a look at Sat's post (a few posts above) and check your definition with (B) of his.

I really don't mind if you start with imparting me with supposedly elementary knowledge or whatever. Just stop dodging. Go on, I really wanna know. Tell me how this 'scientific method' works and why is there a need to continuously state that "it cannot be proven" when nobody(almost?) ever did assert their answer to be absolute.

So you are saying that "it cannot be proven" and therefore? That technology you see around you has a chance to be running on bullshit, and how 'using it(science) to prove itself' introduces bias -> '?Science is unprovable?' -> Therefore it is based on '?faith?' => wut?

Additionally, I hope to ask for any opinions you might have regarding your usage of technology which, in your words, came from "a system that runs on being unable to prove it works other than that it is a good idea and seems to work well".

I'm a pretty big Lovecraft fan as well, "The Colour of Space" was the first thing by him I read, I think. Lovecraft is an interesting personality, though a major racist. I understand your point, I'm just saying that Lovecraft was kind of an odd choice to quote and come on you should have quoted the whole thing for extra awesome points.

"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." - The Call of Cthulhu

@Kalistean
Fair enough. Obviously this won't change my mind etc. If I come across as rude/confrontational, that's just how I am, it's nothing personal at all and that goes for anyone I may have bumped heads with since I've been here.

Are you saying that if someone lacks understanding of the internal concepts they cannot use said results?

Hypothetically speaking, take gravity.

The force of itself exists whether I believe it or not. Changing my understanding of it does not change what it is.

In fact, what we understand as gravity through the scientific method could not be the force that is acting and that gravity itself does not exist.

Hypothetically speaking.

The fact that there is something is observable and thus concrete evidence. However, the process of formulating the understanding is up for debate and is where the faith comes into play.

If you are wanting to refresh yourself in the scientific method then you can go ahead and go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method here or somewhere else of your choosing.

I do not need it.

Technology works. You can observe this. I'm not saying it runs on bullshit. That would be asinine.

I am, however, saying that our understanding of the forces that run it COULD be bullshit and that yes, it requires some faith in science to believe that is not the case.

Like I said, you can use something you do not understand because the forces exist whether you want them to or not.


edit: kgods I'm not saying this to necessarily change you mind. Just that you need to remember that sometimes you need to look at things from another perspective. If you ever become satisfied with one path of thinking then there is something wrong sort of thing.

as for being rude/confrontational. I usually prefer the more direct approach anyways.

Oh, so it's kinda like those people lucked out with their theories. That they don't actually really know anything, just that pieces of metal just manage to fly you over large distances at high altitudes, there is no definite proof anyway; what a thankful way of expressing yourself, typing out on your keyboard like that.

Ever tried building anything with a simple motor by randomly imagining how forces/electricity/etc work? It's awesomely simple, all you need is luck. って感じ？

It is interesting how close minded and biased you are coming off currently.

I mean usually text in a forum lacks any real emotion behind it, but I sure can sense that.

??? It is who I am, though?

Close-minded and Biased?

Alright then, I shall immediately stop taking you seriously then. From now on, all questions you ask me will be answered in the form most appropriate for you.

Come on, you are not that bad yourself.



EDIT: he went berserk...?

EDIT2: I am just one of many close minded and biased people around in this world except I bothered to tell you that I am what I am. If you are gonna rage out like this every single time you realise there is another one of me around you, you are going to have a hard time at life, bro.

@)*#$ @)*#$)*(@#$ %_(@#%)#@






edit: You misunderstand. I did not rage.

I merely replied with what I felt you were obliged to.

Complete and utter nonsense. This is due to the fact that arguing with you is pointless because your close-mindedness makes you an ignorant buffoon on the level of a poop throwing monkey.

Have a nice day.

we can all just settle with kalis being a faith driven person, and some of us as logic driven people and get on with it =3 everyone is too stubborn to listen to text that they are reading from a hentai site forums.

how do you listen to text?

http://www.readplease.com/

hurr, internet. i imagined it and it was already there.