Socialism
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To begin, dialogue from a skit from the Whitest Kids U'Know:
T: Oh man, that was awesome. Now I don't have any lunch though.
S: It's okay, buddy. You can have some of mine. I'll share.
T: Thanks, dude.
S: My food is your food.
T: Heh, you sound like a Communist.
S: Not really Communism. More like Socialism. If you think about it, Socialism's not really that bad.
T: Yeah, I guess you're right. It's kind like just being really nice and fair.
S: If you think about it, Socialism's like everybody helping everybody else out. Capitalism's like greed.
T: It's weird. It's like, the only reason Capitalism works is because it plays on man's biggest flaw.
S: It's almost like if you're really working on developing your soul and being a good person, Capitlism is constantly throwing obstacles in your way.
T: Yeah. It's like, the principles that every single religion teaches are directly opposed to the principles of Capitalism.
So, why do people act like Socialism is the worst thing since Communism? I know I wouldn't mind helping out my neighbors if they were going to be helping me out in return.
T: Oh man, that was awesome. Now I don't have any lunch though.
S: It's okay, buddy. You can have some of mine. I'll share.
T: Thanks, dude.
S: My food is your food.
T: Heh, you sound like a Communist.
S: Not really Communism. More like Socialism. If you think about it, Socialism's not really that bad.
T: Yeah, I guess you're right. It's kind like just being really nice and fair.
S: If you think about it, Socialism's like everybody helping everybody else out. Capitalism's like greed.
T: It's weird. It's like, the only reason Capitalism works is because it plays on man's biggest flaw.
S: It's almost like if you're really working on developing your soul and being a good person, Capitlism is constantly throwing obstacles in your way.
T: Yeah. It's like, the principles that every single religion teaches are directly opposed to the principles of Capitalism.
Spoiler:
So, why do people act like Socialism is the worst thing since Communism? I know I wouldn't mind helping out my neighbors if they were going to be helping me out in return.
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These are worth watching:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225113&title=The-Stockholm-Syndrome
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225126&title=The-Stockholm-Syndrome-Pt.-2
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225113&title=The-Stockholm-Syndrome
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225126&title=The-Stockholm-Syndrome-Pt.-2
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
So, why do people act like Socialism is the worst thing since Communism? I know I wouldn't mind helping out my neighbors if they were going to be helping me out in return.I want to say "because Americans have no concept of Socialism to begin with", but that'd probably be pretty rude, wouldn't it.
Do you mean socialism as Americans use it, i.e. a welfare state, etc.? Then it's because the one political party in the U.S. ("the property party, which has two right wings.", Vidal) has been using gawdless communism and socialism as a handy little pocket demon for decades. No wonder that has a lasting impact on people. Never mind that the welfare state is an invention of christian-conservative politicians.
Or do you mean Socialism? Then I'd say, because both its idealist, marxist face and real socialism - are terrible, because they're the totalitarian, institutionalized "permanent revolution and dictatorship of the proletariat" (K. Marx: Class struggle in France). Not a fun thing to be in the middle of, if you're a: bourgeois, intellectual, kulak, lumpenproletarian, capitalist, diversant, ... - i.e. anything but a revolutionary proletarian. And even then it's not much fun.
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"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher
I'm going to quote something I thought was a good analogy written about Socialism:
The blood, of course, is money. Person #2 is the government which does not produce "value" (i.e., profit, wealth). Person #1 is the private sector, which, if left unmolested, can produce more than ample amounts of profit. The problem we now face, with our corporate taxes (of 35%) the second highest in the world, is that body #1 is beyond the point where it can give anymore blood. In fact, it is hemorrhaging and on the verge of death - as evidenced by the recent financial collapse. The crises we now face are not problems of capitalism, but the inherent problem with socialism, i.e. the growth of government and its interference in markets. Still, the mass of ignorant Americans are being led to believe that this is a crisis of capitalism. It is not.
Problem with socialism is it only sounds good on paper. It's taking into account that everyone is honest. But this is idealism. Since everyone gets equal share, what's the point of working harder than the next guy? A great example comes from all the crap the Russians built during the communist era. Why were their products so inferior to ours?
Have you also heard what the Washington policymakers have said? In order to just support free healthcare, they would have to make a national sales tax. Do you know what numbers they've projected? 25 fucking percent. I don't know about you, but this is BS to me.
EDIT:
Do you mean socialism as Americans use it, i.e. a welfare state, etc.? Then it's because the one political party in the U.S. ("the property party, which has two right wings.", Vidal) has been using gawdless communism and socialism as a handy little pocket demon for decades. No wonder that has a lasting impact on people. Never mind that the welfare state is an invention of christian-conservative politicians.
Lol it's good to see someone sees the truth. +rep for "being pretty rude" (When I get the chance).
But as Americans would use it still sucks as well seeing as how Putin is even warning us about how we shouldn't fall into this socialism. And who knows better than Russians?
EDIT 2: Speaking about dictatorship... It also freaks me out that Obama bought out the banks and GM. It's a classic dictator move that all countries with dictatorship has made...
I'm going to quote something I thought was a good analogy written about Socialism:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com wrote...
There are two people, each on a hospital gurney. Person #2 can not produce his own blood, so from time to time blood has been taken from person #1 and given to him. At first, this is fine and there is no problem since the amounts required are minimal. Yet, over time the amounts taken from #1 become greater and greater. Person #1 soon has more blood taken from him than his body can replace. He gets ill, his organs start shutting down, and before too long he dies.The blood, of course, is money. Person #2 is the government which does not produce "value" (i.e., profit, wealth). Person #1 is the private sector, which, if left unmolested, can produce more than ample amounts of profit. The problem we now face, with our corporate taxes (of 35%) the second highest in the world, is that body #1 is beyond the point where it can give anymore blood. In fact, it is hemorrhaging and on the verge of death - as evidenced by the recent financial collapse. The crises we now face are not problems of capitalism, but the inherent problem with socialism, i.e. the growth of government and its interference in markets. Still, the mass of ignorant Americans are being led to believe that this is a crisis of capitalism. It is not.
Problem with socialism is it only sounds good on paper. It's taking into account that everyone is honest. But this is idealism. Since everyone gets equal share, what's the point of working harder than the next guy? A great example comes from all the crap the Russians built during the communist era. Why were their products so inferior to ours?
Have you also heard what the Washington policymakers have said? In order to just support free healthcare, they would have to make a national sales tax. Do you know what numbers they've projected? 25 fucking percent. I don't know about you, but this is BS to me.
EDIT:
gibbous wrote...
I want to say "because Americans have no concept of Socialism to begin with", but that'd probably be pretty rude, wouldn't it.Do you mean socialism as Americans use it, i.e. a welfare state, etc.? Then it's because the one political party in the U.S. ("the property party, which has two right wings.", Vidal) has been using gawdless communism and socialism as a handy little pocket demon for decades. No wonder that has a lasting impact on people. Never mind that the welfare state is an invention of christian-conservative politicians.
Lol it's good to see someone sees the truth. +rep for "being pretty rude" (When I get the chance).
But as Americans would use it still sucks as well seeing as how Putin is even warning us about how we shouldn't fall into this socialism. And who knows better than Russians?
EDIT 2: Speaking about dictatorship... It also freaks me out that Obama bought out the banks and GM. It's a classic dictator move that all countries with dictatorship has made...
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PersonDude wrote...
Problem with socialism is it only sounds good on paper. It's taking into account that everyone is honest. But this is idealism. Since everyone gets equal share, what's the point of working harder than the next guy? A great example comes from all the crap the Russians built during the communist era. Why were their products so inferior to ours?I just had to point this out.
If Socialism only sounds good on paper and cannot actually work, then what about all the Socialist countries that thrive and work? Why do so many citizens in those countries have good lives, while so many Americans go hungry?
I direct all people to the video links Jacob posted. They are definitely worth watching.
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
If Socialism only sounds good on paper and cannot actually work, then what about all the Socialist countries that thrive and work? Why do so many citizens in those countries have good lives, while so many Americans go hungry?I direct all people to the video links Jacob posted. They are definitely worth watching.
Are they really having a good life?
American's at least have a class of poor, middle and rich (Though the definition is changing with the falling economy). If you really look closely at those countries the only class you'll see is a semi-middle/poor class (by our standards). Is this poverty? No, but neither is it prosperity. Not only that, give it more time and the people will start running out of money. You might have picked this up if you read all of my post (Particularly the analogy). :P
Also, why is China switching to more of a capitalist economy if communist economy was so good? (You're going to say it's cause it's communist, but socialism and communism economy is pretty much the same) Not only that, why would Russia who experienced a socialist economy give us a warning not to fall into the same trap?
EDIT: Note that China and Russia are the two that have had the longest running Communist/Socialist economy. Europe has had a more recent change hence they have not had BIG problems... yet...
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If Socialism only sounds good on paper and cannot actually work, then what about all the Socialist countries that thrive and work?
Such as?
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guys. have to say a bit bout this socialism issue. socialism basically IS the early phase of communism. But it cannot be easily achieved and may last even an epoch to become the new world order. why is it the early years? look on fundamental point of views by Marx. many has explained his writing but failed to understand it in a dialectical materialist way. socialism that some others call which defy the concept of communism is a social democrats orientation. a bourgeois socialism. remember the main reason of achieving communism: to end oppression by man to man, the abolishing of private property (not personal property guys) which is the root of a biased social strata and at last, the end of war because of greed.
many say, union soviet is a communist state. No, the thing that is demonized by lot of us is a world order not just a system of government in one country. when communism is achieved; the people would be needing no government. man could make possible leap towards dramatic development of his existence.
if Russia or china has lost their kind of socialism, this system is not vanquished literally.for implementation of socialism is still in practice in most part of the underdeveloped countries. and in fact, russia is not a socialist state when revisionist penetrated its leaders, thus also china when same opportunist fraction seize power. socialism is a government of the people with the highest political, social, economical and cultural understanding that live in harmony ready to defend if threatened by its capitalist or revisionist aggressor. therefore, people in a socialist country must be vigilant. ever ready to be challenge.
yo people that has comments or questions about this, feel free to answer. ill be happy if you got time to talk some things like this.
many say, union soviet is a communist state. No, the thing that is demonized by lot of us is a world order not just a system of government in one country. when communism is achieved; the people would be needing no government. man could make possible leap towards dramatic development of his existence.
if Russia or china has lost their kind of socialism, this system is not vanquished literally.for implementation of socialism is still in practice in most part of the underdeveloped countries. and in fact, russia is not a socialist state when revisionist penetrated its leaders, thus also china when same opportunist fraction seize power. socialism is a government of the people with the highest political, social, economical and cultural understanding that live in harmony ready to defend if threatened by its capitalist or revisionist aggressor. therefore, people in a socialist country must be vigilant. ever ready to be challenge.
yo people that has comments or questions about this, feel free to answer. ill be happy if you got time to talk some things like this.
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gibbous wrote...
If Socialism only sounds good on paper and cannot actually work, then what about all the Socialist countries that thrive and work?
Such as?
How about the country discussed in the Daily Show clips, Sweden? Seems like a pretty fine place. Looks a lot better than the place I live in now. And France. Even if I'm not a citizen, I'd still get treated pretty well there. And England. Aren't they doing pretty well?
Sure, those countries aren't 100% Socialist, but shit, America's not 100% Capitalist. If we were, we'd allow monopolies, wouldn't we?
If a country that is purely Socialistic is bad, does that mean that Socialism is bad? Or can some Socialistic things be incorporated, for the betterment of the country, without ruining the country?
PersonDude wrote...
American's at least have a class of poor, middle and rich (Though the definition is changing with the falling economy). If you really look closely at those countries the only class you'll see is a semi-middle/poor class (by our standards). Is this poverty? No, but neither is it prosperity. Not only that, give it more time and the people will start running out of money. You might have picked this up if you read all of my post (Particularly the analogy). :PI would rather have a decent life than either a millionaire's life or a poor man's life. And where exactly do we draw the line between "a good life" and "prosperity"? To me, if a person can afford a high-definition television, that person is prospering. "Prosperity" is not owning a three-story house and five cars. If it is, then only a very small number of people can actually be prosperous, and isn't that depressing?
Also, you say that the countries will run out of money, but people are currently saying that the US will far apart and turn to complete shit. You may have evidence that supports your theory, but so do those people. In ten years, I wonder which will be the better place to live.
I'll admit, Socialism may not be the best thing in the world, but it's far from being the demon that a lot of people make it out to be, and a country doesn't have to completely forgo Capitalism to incorporate some Socialist ideas to help its citizens. So why do people act like it's either or?
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How about the country discussed in the Daily Show clips, Sweden? Seems like a pretty fine place. Looks a lot better than the place I live in now. And France. Even if I'm not a citizen, I'd still get treated pretty well there. And England. Aren't they doing pretty well?
Neither Sweden nor the UK nor France are remotely socialist. The Daily show's clip was a jibe at the freep crowd labelling them socialist and painting them as hell-holes.
All these countries are absolutely capitalist, as are the U.S.
The difference between the U.S. and say, Sweden, or France, is the existence of a welfare state instead of privatized welfare. It has however no rooting in socialism at all; the idea of state-run welfare has two founding stones: A) the protection of the financial markets from the influence of institutional investors B) the conviction that a healthy populace makes for a more efficient work-force.
Both points are completely correct, and the crisis at hand came to being exactly because A) was being increasingly neglected. It would lead too far at this point to discuss this in detail here; but I invite you, if you are interested, to take a look at scientific literature on the impact of institutional investment on financial markets.
If a country that is purely Socialistic is bad, does that mean that Socialism is bad? Or can some Socialistic things be incorporated, for the betterment of the country, without ruining the country?
First, let's ask the man, Marx, what socialism is:
Karl Marx wrote...
"Sozialismus ist die Permanenzerklärung der Revolution, die Klassendiktatur des Proletariats als notwendiger Durchgangspunkt zur Abschaffung der Klassenunterschiede überhaupt, zur Abschaffung sämtlicher Produktionsverhältnisse, worauf sie beruhen, zur Abschaffung sämtlicher gesellschaftlicher Beziehungen, die diesen Produktionsverhältnissen entsprechen, zur Umwälzung sämtlicher Ideen, die aus diesen gesellschaftlichen Beziehungen hervorgehen." (Marx: Class Struggle In France)"Socialism is the revolution made permanent; the class-dictatorship of the proletariat as a necessary step in ridding the world of class differences; the abolition of the means of production they depend on; the abolitions of the societal relations rooted in these means; the upheaval of all and any ideas that originate with these social relations."
Then let's look at whether these things can be incorporated without ruining the country:
Can dictatorship (of the proletariat) be incorporated without ruining the country? It can not.
Can the other steps (abolition of the means of production that cause class differences; of their effects on societal relations; the upheaval of any and all ideas that originate with them) be incorporated without dictatorship and permanent revolution? They can not.
Case closed.
I'll admit, Socialism may not be the best thing in the world, but it's far from being the demon that a lot of people make it out to be, and a country doesn't have to completely forgo Capitalism to incorporate some Socialist ideas to help its citizens. So why do people act like it's either or?
Because socialism and capitalism are polar opposites that make a strong point of being mutually exclusive.
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
How about the country discussed in the Daily Show clips, Sweden? Seems like a pretty fine place. Looks a lot better than the place I live in now. And France. Even if I'm not a citizen, I'd still get treated pretty well there. And England. Aren't they doing pretty well?One of your replies to someone who talked about our state of life gathered from the media from "Do you hate the U.S.?" thread:
ShaggyJebus wrote...
You can't believe everything the news tells you.American TV shows are not a good representation of real American life, just like how most of the shows in a country aren't a good representation of real life in that country.
Change out the America into those countries you mentioned and that's my argument.
ShaggyJebus wrote...
I would rather have a decent life than either a millionaire's life or a poor man's life. And where exactly do we draw the line between "a good life" and "prosperity"? To me, if a person can afford a high-definition television, that person is prospering. "Prosperity" is not owning a three-story house and five cars. If it is, then only a very small number of people can actually be prosperous, and isn't that depressing?But slowly, the standards will be lowered because the money will slowly run out. Then who is to say what a "normal" standard really is? You could be eating dirt but that could be considered "normal" in a socialism society because the "normal" class is decided by how everyone is doing. Will you be happy then?
ShaggyJebus wrote...
Also, you say that the countries will run out of money, but people are currently saying that the US will far apart and turn to complete shit. You may have evidence that supports your theory, but so do those people. In ten years, I wonder which will be the better place to live.As I said, they're projecting a 25% percent with Value Added Tax (VAT). Do you really think this'll turn out for the better? No matter what kind of optimistic evidence the opposing side offers, this can't be ignored. People are barely getting by with the prices now, but with a higher tax on goods, then everyone is screwed paying or not paying for health care.
ShaggyJebus wrote...
I'll admit, Socialism may not be the best thing in the world, but it's far from being the demon that a lot of people make it out to be, and a country doesn't have to completely forgo Capitalism to incorporate some Socialist ideas to help its citizens. So why do people act like it's either or?Because one concept of socialism means bringing every other concept from capitalism has to be reordered meaning a complete change. There aren't many economical standards that can coexist if you want to implement a capitalistic AND socialistic society.
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Bottom line is people fail to see the bigger picture. Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with a Socialist society. However individual and government corruption will always make sure that such forms of economic theory will always favor at least one group of people,and therefore undermine its point entirely.
For me its always been about Communism. I'm fascinated with it, and to a degree I agree with the adage that Communism is the world's perfect form of government, but it's hard to argue one way or another either for or against Communism. If it could work in it's purest state it would be a very effective form of government, but it certainly wouldn't then be perfect, as it is far from perfect or even viable now. Same goes with Socialism in context.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't let yourself be so single-minded that you can't see the bigger picture of Socialism. It isn't neither a bad system nor a good system. It's an option.
For me its always been about Communism. I'm fascinated with it, and to a degree I agree with the adage that Communism is the world's perfect form of government, but it's hard to argue one way or another either for or against Communism. If it could work in it's purest state it would be a very effective form of government, but it certainly wouldn't then be perfect, as it is far from perfect or even viable now. Same goes with Socialism in context.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't let yourself be so single-minded that you can't see the bigger picture of Socialism. It isn't neither a bad system nor a good system. It's an option.
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
How about the country discussed in the Daily Show clips, Sweden? Seems like a pretty fine place. Looks a lot better than the place I live in now. And France. Even if I'm not a citizen, I'd still get treated pretty well there. And England. Aren't they doing pretty well?Sure, those countries aren't 100% Socialist, but shit, America's not 100% Capitalist. If we were, we'd allow monopolies, wouldn't we?
If a country that is purely Socialistic is bad, does that mean that Socialism is bad? Or can some Socialistic things be incorporated, for the betterment of the country, without ruining the country?
I can't say for sure about Sweden, but France is right wing governed, and we can't say England is left wing either (Labour being a centrist party, just calling themselves social democrate to gain more votes during elections).
Most of the european countries are right wing, and this won't change so far. But they adopt the "welfare state" position, and give more and more credit to the socialism. As well for the other countries in the world, there's no government purely capitalist or purely socialist. Each state however has his own balance between both, distinguishing themselves from one other. (See USA and China, and think about ying yang)
To tell the truth, no state can any longer stay apart from the market economy and the capitalism in nowadays world. Self-sufficience is nothing but an utopia. That's why the majority of the countries are more right than left winged, and why capitalism is still ruling the world. But with the crisis occuring thoses days, more and more think about socialism as the solution. I think that's why this post was made, eh.
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hehe.. it seems that it is only me who's in a third world country. ye, i am here in a tropical country and far from the culture of Americans and Europeans. i agree to the person who said that we must view things in its general AND particulars also!
to be able to view things in in whole, please study the political-economical aspects and orientation of these different countries. some people says it was better in their country today. But here, everyday life here isn't untouched by the political, economical, cultural and military issues by your respective American and European countries. i definitely argue that America is not a capitalist state! if not, what is it?
in a capitalist orientation of the world,( theoretically, capitalism is the stage of society which the world is in today.) a poor and third world country is BADLY NEEDED by some first world, dominant countries. it is a rule in a capitalist stage that these dominant nation feeds on the resources of third world countries. peaceful assimilation if you heard of that ruins like a leech and sucks these impoverish nations into depth of crisis. guys, if you tell that this crisis is not because of the capitalist orientation of some countries, we prove you wrong! we felt it here and share a larger burden. long before your countries declare recession, economical crisis is already a bane here from those days of colonization. i'm here at the south east Asia and we feed good portion of the first world people. notice some institutions that america has created after WWII: IMF-world bank. this crap has prolonged american intervention and manipulation on political and economical aspects here. i bet this also happen in india, south americas, middle east and african nations. think. what if we impoverish third world countries do not give agricultural and economical necessities to those capitalist countries? we'll be tagged as anti americans? will they take it forcefully now that their self imposed trade and rules is being set aside?
the truth people; capitalism will kill itself.
it will spawn wars.
wars of national liberation.
later, war for anti imperialist plunder.
europe and america isnt just the mirror of the world.
it is the larger part of the world which is poor countries.
poor countries feed them while die on starvation.
what if these working class and large peasant force has been now able to understand thing politically and stand in one fighting force?
communism isnt type of government.
it is a NEW WORLD ORDER.
LAND and FOOD is the root issues why we are talking right here.
it is the decisive factor for revolution against oppression.
fight for communism has started way centuries before......
it has not yet ended.
it is in its learning and flourishing stage.
to be able to view things in in whole, please study the political-economical aspects and orientation of these different countries. some people says it was better in their country today. But here, everyday life here isn't untouched by the political, economical, cultural and military issues by your respective American and European countries. i definitely argue that America is not a capitalist state! if not, what is it?
in a capitalist orientation of the world,( theoretically, capitalism is the stage of society which the world is in today.) a poor and third world country is BADLY NEEDED by some first world, dominant countries. it is a rule in a capitalist stage that these dominant nation feeds on the resources of third world countries. peaceful assimilation if you heard of that ruins like a leech and sucks these impoverish nations into depth of crisis. guys, if you tell that this crisis is not because of the capitalist orientation of some countries, we prove you wrong! we felt it here and share a larger burden. long before your countries declare recession, economical crisis is already a bane here from those days of colonization. i'm here at the south east Asia and we feed good portion of the first world people. notice some institutions that america has created after WWII: IMF-world bank. this crap has prolonged american intervention and manipulation on political and economical aspects here. i bet this also happen in india, south americas, middle east and african nations. think. what if we impoverish third world countries do not give agricultural and economical necessities to those capitalist countries? we'll be tagged as anti americans? will they take it forcefully now that their self imposed trade and rules is being set aside?
the truth people; capitalism will kill itself.
it will spawn wars.
wars of national liberation.
later, war for anti imperialist plunder.
europe and america isnt just the mirror of the world.
it is the larger part of the world which is poor countries.
poor countries feed them while die on starvation.
what if these working class and large peasant force has been now able to understand thing politically and stand in one fighting force?
communism isnt type of government.
it is a NEW WORLD ORDER.
LAND and FOOD is the root issues why we are talking right here.
it is the decisive factor for revolution against oppression.
fight for communism has started way centuries before......
it has not yet ended.
it is in its learning and flourishing stage.
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i was thinking of a more hard hitting answer..
REVOLUTION must not only be in one country.
it is a 360degrees rotation. it means the whole world should be revolutionized.
SOCIALIZE the need of the people.
produce what we needed, not what we wanted.
commodification is a by product of capitalism.
free your mind!
capitalism penetrates even how people think and decide.
we are in a decomposing stage of capitalism; the emergence of a sole world power in pol-econ-culture-military aspects and the widening gap of social structures.
IMPERIALISM is the word. maybe new to some westerners, but not in third world nations.
remember philipines,socialist china(not the china in its present form),korea,vietnam,cuba,iraq,afghanistan, and many more countries who taste the whipslash of a sole world power who acts as an international police.
havent that country got a VESTED INTEREST? or is it spending the last of it's days in ever deepening and unstoppable crisis it brought upon its own people.
lastly, it is not those people of this nation must be hurt for we are rallying in same cause. against your super police capitalist government. were both casualties here. lets help each other.
REVOLUTION must not only be in one country.
it is a 360degrees rotation. it means the whole world should be revolutionized.
SOCIALIZE the need of the people.
produce what we needed, not what we wanted.
commodification is a by product of capitalism.
free your mind!
capitalism penetrates even how people think and decide.
we are in a decomposing stage of capitalism; the emergence of a sole world power in pol-econ-culture-military aspects and the widening gap of social structures.
IMPERIALISM is the word. maybe new to some westerners, but not in third world nations.
remember philipines,socialist china(not the china in its present form),korea,vietnam,cuba,iraq,afghanistan, and many more countries who taste the whipslash of a sole world power who acts as an international police.
havent that country got a VESTED INTEREST? or is it spending the last of it's days in ever deepening and unstoppable crisis it brought upon its own people.
lastly, it is not those people of this nation must be hurt for we are rallying in same cause. against your super police capitalist government. were both casualties here. lets help each other.
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jo14 wrote...
i definitely argue that America is not a capitalist state! if not, what is it?Wat?
jo14 wrote...
Spoiler:
Woah, that's a huge ass wall of text that's hard to make sense of... It seems to jump all over the place, but the main gist is, you're talking about how poor countries are needed for capitalism and capitalism has made you that way. Wait, what? Scape-goat attempt failed seeing as how it's not our fault unless you have evidence.
Here's a solution... How about do something about it instead of complaining? It may sound harsh, but the 1st world countries have pulled out ahead because they worked for it. You might argue that it's impossible for an island country to do anything, but Hawaii does pretty good for itself without complaining, why? Capitalist mindset.
jo14 wrote...
Spoiler:
Sounds like fanaticism and propaganda got your mind... Communism was tried and it failed. Idealism will never work because it's exactly what it is. An ideal.
jo14 wrote...
free your mind!capitalism penetrates even how people think and decide.
Irony. This what the media tells you?
jo14 wrote...
remember philipines,socialist china(not the china in its present form),korea,vietnam,cuba,iraq,afghanistan, and many more countries who taste the whipslash of a sole world power who acts as an international police.What about them? I don't see anything wrong with the countries that we've helped out (Besides the ones that went red). You neglected to mention the European countries as well.
jo14 wrote...
havent that country got a VESTED INTEREST? or is it spending the last of it's days in ever deepening and unstoppable crisis it brought upon its own people.lastly, it is not those people of this nation must be hurt for we are rallying in same cause. against your super police capitalist government. were both casualties here. lets help each other.
Powerful speech. Hitler did the same and exploited a falling country to further his agenda.
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Frankly I used to be a socialist, but really it's only about ten steps down from communism. Communism is basically like being well, a bee, everything is about the hive not the individual. Socialism, at least you still own well, something however still you do not own your own property so to speak, the government owns it. Just as well if the government is powerful enough to give you everything than the government is just as powerful to take it all away from you in one fell swoop. That's why I switched to constitutionalism where everything is decided basically by what our current United States constitution says, in which case we are not a democracy but in turn a republic which you can still share, as freedom of trade is highly valued, but the government has no control over it and can't force it upon you. "After all, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
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it's good to know that people know what 'true' socialism is (i'm a marxist). when many people bring up Russia, say, they tend to leave out that 14+ capitalist nations invaded, thus forcing back many of the gains made during the revolution and thus indirectly led to Stalin and the police state (no-where near socialism or communism)
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ericp wrote...
it's good to know that people know what 'true' socialism is (i'm a marxist). when many people bring up Russia, say, they tend to leave out that 14+ capitalist nations invaded, thus forcing back many of the gains made during the revolution and thus indirectly led to Stalin and the police state (no-where near socialism or communism)I'd have to disagree about Russia, Stalin came about because the state held too much power and men with power seek to abuse that power. The "state" is a necessary evil and no society can manage without some form of authority making sure laws are obeyed and enforced.
I have to disagree with socialism as the government is unfair competition in a free market. The "businesses" the government owns (i.e. mixed economies) wouldn't have to stay above the red unlike it's competition. If there was a "public" car company supported by tax revenue while it's competition was a privately owned company . The public one could keep prices at throat slashing levels and could levy various taxes on the private sector to bleed the competition dry.
As for full state or public control (i.e. planned economy), the system lacks a price mechanism and a free price system. Other problems such as a lack of incentive to innovate, ineffective means to redistribute resources also plague the system.
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PersonDude wrote...
Hitler did the same and exploited a falling country to further his agenda.Godwin's Law. You lose.
On the subject of Socialism, I don't think that it can't be done partially, sparingly. Especially for the purposes of Health Care, I see nothing wrong with it.