Space Colonization
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dr roxo wrote...
amadorhi wrote...
dr roxo wrote...
amadorhi wrote...
Rovencrone wrote...
I remember a couple years ago NASA said that they'd colonize the moon by 2028. obviously it would be a good idea now that we know there's water there, and that we need a new planet to fuck up.If we can manage to pollute a rock in space with little to no gravity, my faith in humanity will plummet even lower than it already has.
i prefer the rock over the earth.
I can see it now. "Attack On North Korea is Actually Fallen Moon Development Debris"
If we ever do it, it needs to be done right and with martial law at every corner cause people are stupid.
huge chunks of asteroids burn up in the earth's atmosphere every day. It would have to be one hell of a ball of trash to make it to earth. Then, even if it does, the ocean covers 78% of the earth's surface. Also colonies would not have food, water, or comfy technology which makes their life easier. This creates a dependancy on earth, and thus, a hard time rebelling. Of course their will be law, but pollution is nothing to worry about when you are on a lifless rock far away from the earth.
Yeah but its the conditional situations that screw us over. And of course we won't be seeing any sort of rebelling from colonies. We have trouble finding new resources to support ourselves. Good luck finding anything mineable out there.
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mineable? HAH, asteroids are ritch in iron, nickel, silacates, and still many more. We wouldnt even need to look for one, we could just land on one and start mining. The net worths of even the smallest asteroids number in the billions. Minable will be the least of our worries.
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I disagree.Because we know less about earth than outerspace so let's try to know more whats close first than dreaming of colonizing space.
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Flaser
OCD Hentai Collector
Looks like it's once again time for me to be the voice of cold, hard[size=10]1[/h] reason. Beyond the political or ideological implications there are some plain physics and technological facts that makes the whole deal pretty unfeasible right now.
However instead spouting my own crap I will merely quote a professional:
[size=10]1 - ...as in diamond hard sci-fi.[/h]
...there spoilered.
However instead spouting my own crap I will merely quote a professional:
[size=10]1 - ...as in diamond hard sci-fi.[/h]
Spoiler:
...there spoilered.
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To the guy above me, not gonna lie I didn't read your post. I didn't feel like reading pages of text. Maybe you should try summarizing it.
Step1: Kill all religion in humanity
Step2: Eliminate country borders and unify one single government
Step3: Get a few bases on the moon
Step4: Master magnetic launching
Step5: All you space are belong to us
Seeing as how step 1 and 2 are unlikely to happen, we're stuck here.
I kinda doubt magnetic launching is actually feasible. Something for you guys that are interested in this stuff that is feasible however, and that we will quite possibly see in our respective lifetimes, is a space elevator. Here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
Basically though, a space elevator could transport materials and crew from earth to an attached space station (serving as the counterweight) in synchronized orbit. The space station could then serve as a dock for shuttles. Not only would moving stuff to the space station be ridiculously cheap, but the shuttles in question would be much cheaper as well, since they would have no need for things such as heat panels - its not like they are ever going to need to reenter the atmosphere. Nor would you need the beastly engines they put on all of our modern space craft.
I imagine most shuttles launched from a preexisting space station would need little more than some armor to protect against debris, an engine of some sort, and to be pressurized. They wouldn't even need to be remotely aerodynamic either.
It's not a fact that colonization will lead to war, but it probably will. Especially in space since it's a huge step for mankind, the availability of resources here on earth is dwindling, and the situation will probably be severe by the time we have the technology to do this. It's a question about resources and territory. Of course this won't be a problem an first, since there will be to much space for one nation to claim. But as it will go on, more and more nations is going to chase after their piece of the cake.
If there was a way to either evenly divide the place of colonization an it's resources, or the nations were willing to do fully fair trade, there is a chance that it would work, but of course each country will have a self-interest in this as it will be a huge opportunity, and who can blame them? The profit gained from interplanetary colonies will probably be massive.
To summarize: Greed will turn people against each other, that's why.
In recent history, nuclear weapons have already proven themselves to be one of the most powerful enforcers of peace of all time. I highly doubt mankind will be waging any large wars unless things become extremely dire in terms of natural resources, or else someone figures out a reliable way to neutralize the massive firepower nuclear weapons provide. Until that happens though, major nations are going to continue to do everything in their power to avoid large scale wars.
amadorhi wrote...
Well the first move is to get a base on the moon so that we can magnetically launch ships from there with much more ease than here on Earth. From there its all about finding suitable habitats and such but we as a species are failures when it comes to workin together for a common goal cause country A is biiter to country B. Step1: Kill all religion in humanity
Step2: Eliminate country borders and unify one single government
Step3: Get a few bases on the moon
Step4: Master magnetic launching
Step5: All you space are belong to us
Seeing as how step 1 and 2 are unlikely to happen, we're stuck here.
I kinda doubt magnetic launching is actually feasible. Something for you guys that are interested in this stuff that is feasible however, and that we will quite possibly see in our respective lifetimes, is a space elevator. Here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
Basically though, a space elevator could transport materials and crew from earth to an attached space station (serving as the counterweight) in synchronized orbit. The space station could then serve as a dock for shuttles. Not only would moving stuff to the space station be ridiculously cheap, but the shuttles in question would be much cheaper as well, since they would have no need for things such as heat panels - its not like they are ever going to need to reenter the atmosphere. Nor would you need the beastly engines they put on all of our modern space craft.
I imagine most shuttles launched from a preexisting space station would need little more than some armor to protect against debris, an engine of some sort, and to be pressurized. They wouldn't even need to be remotely aerodynamic either.
Chlor wrote...
If you can name one colonizationproject that hasn't lead or involved some kind of conflict I'll be happy to hear about it.It's not a fact that colonization will lead to war, but it probably will. Especially in space since it's a huge step for mankind, the availability of resources here on earth is dwindling, and the situation will probably be severe by the time we have the technology to do this. It's a question about resources and territory. Of course this won't be a problem an first, since there will be to much space for one nation to claim. But as it will go on, more and more nations is going to chase after their piece of the cake.
If there was a way to either evenly divide the place of colonization an it's resources, or the nations were willing to do fully fair trade, there is a chance that it would work, but of course each country will have a self-interest in this as it will be a huge opportunity, and who can blame them? The profit gained from interplanetary colonies will probably be massive.
To summarize: Greed will turn people against each other, that's why.
In recent history, nuclear weapons have already proven themselves to be one of the most powerful enforcers of peace of all time. I highly doubt mankind will be waging any large wars unless things become extremely dire in terms of natural resources, or else someone figures out a reliable way to neutralize the massive firepower nuclear weapons provide. Until that happens though, major nations are going to continue to do everything in their power to avoid large scale wars.
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Flaser
OCD Hentai Collector
I copied a 4 pages long article that's nowhere near heavy reading - no equations, no hard to understand specialized terms, it's even funny and was intentionally written to be easy to understand.
This is why I goddamn hate the MTV generation. While your attention-span is shorter than a mayfly's love-song, your inability to do any research but still firmly believe in your flawed ideas never ceases to amaze me.
Never mind here's the gist:
Space colonization is way too expensive.
Forget interstellar - it's like ape-men trying to do an Apollo program. (It needs several technical breakthroughs that verge on outright miracles).
As for intra-stellar - most Earth type places are way too harsh. Compared to them even the arctic and desert zones of the Earth are a lot more habitable. However they're still too damn far away! If colonies are ever made the pattern of trade and population won't follow historic trends. (There go all the previous comparisons to the Trans Atlantic colonies).
Near Earth colonies could be made, however to be viable they'd still need an Orbital Elevator. However what all of you forget is that the Elevator would need carbon nanotubes and several engineering breakthroughs to be viable...
...so no. Not likely for quite a wile. Another thing that nobody yet could answer me was what effect the elevator would have on the planet's ionosphere. It would short-circuit the Earth's natural static buildup and would be another major engineering problem to overcome.
What could be done right now would be a skyramp, it won't make launches really cheaper, but it would still lower the launch costs somewhat. Using air breathing engines could also lower launch costs but would increase spacecraft complexity.
BTW magnetic launching could work on the Moon as it's gravity is a lot lower and since it doesn't have an atmosphere you can launch horizontally.
Before you write more I suggest familiarizing yourself with the basics of space engineering, which isn't *that* hard to do.
Start here:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html
This is why I goddamn hate the MTV generation. While your attention-span is shorter than a mayfly's love-song, your inability to do any research but still firmly believe in your flawed ideas never ceases to amaze me.
Never mind here's the gist:
Space colonization is way too expensive.
Forget interstellar - it's like ape-men trying to do an Apollo program. (It needs several technical breakthroughs that verge on outright miracles).
As for intra-stellar - most Earth type places are way too harsh. Compared to them even the arctic and desert zones of the Earth are a lot more habitable. However they're still too damn far away! If colonies are ever made the pattern of trade and population won't follow historic trends. (There go all the previous comparisons to the Trans Atlantic colonies).
Near Earth colonies could be made, however to be viable they'd still need an Orbital Elevator. However what all of you forget is that the Elevator would need carbon nanotubes and several engineering breakthroughs to be viable...
...so no. Not likely for quite a wile. Another thing that nobody yet could answer me was what effect the elevator would have on the planet's ionosphere. It would short-circuit the Earth's natural static buildup and would be another major engineering problem to overcome.
What could be done right now would be a skyramp, it won't make launches really cheaper, but it would still lower the launch costs somewhat. Using air breathing engines could also lower launch costs but would increase spacecraft complexity.
BTW magnetic launching could work on the Moon as it's gravity is a lot lower and since it doesn't have an atmosphere you can launch horizontally.
Before you write more I suggest familiarizing yourself with the basics of space engineering, which isn't *that* hard to do.
Start here:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html
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Have we figured out how to pee decently/conveniently on 0 gravity?
Seriously, I think we should try to go for simpler feats at the moment like colonizing the ocean first. By the time weve fully utilized the earth we'd already ahve the tech to venture into space efficiently, itll be more profitable and more convenient for all.
Seriously, I think we should try to go for simpler feats at the moment like colonizing the ocean first. By the time weve fully utilized the earth we'd already ahve the tech to venture into space efficiently, itll be more profitable and more convenient for all.
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I believe it isnt a matter of "should we" anymore. Its a matter of when will we have to. We're single handedly destroying our planet as it is right now. Space colonization could bring about a range of new discoveries as well. The better we know the universe the better we will be able to understand Earth as a part of that universe.
Also, who said that we're supposed to stay here on our planet? Lets say everyone had that sort of anti-exploratory attitude. If everyone just stayed in their hometown, human civilization would be millenia behind where it is today!
EXPLORATION LEADS TO DISCOVERY! AND DISCOVERY LEADS TO A BETTER WAY OF LIFE.
Of course, all of this is just personal opinion =)
Also, who said that we're supposed to stay here on our planet? Lets say everyone had that sort of anti-exploratory attitude. If everyone just stayed in their hometown, human civilization would be millenia behind where it is today!
EXPLORATION LEADS TO DISCOVERY! AND DISCOVERY LEADS TO A BETTER WAY OF LIFE.
Of course, all of this is just personal opinion =)
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Jericho Antares
FAKKU Writer
I believe we shouldn't simply because of how much we've miffed already. As far as I'm concerned humanity deserves to die on this planet we've so readily killed to save the rest of the universe the trouble of wiping out a hegemonic race of power-hungry lunatics.
We don't deserve anything more to screw up.
We don't deserve anything more to screw up.
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Yes space colonization cuz years later a 6 billion people will be come 11 billion people.. Example..
Spoiler:
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Alright, once we master space flight to the point where our ships can all travel light speed, that's step one. Step two, if we're gonna colonize spacve, we have to be a team on this. EVERY country has to unite on this, we can't just have one country funding itself to go out into space and make a colony. It'd be SO much better if we could unite all the countries to at LEAST support this one particular project. Also, once we master Light Speed Space Travel, I HOPE that would lead to alien contact, and if we contact aliens, I would hope they are friendly, and if they are friendly, I hope they would help us learn HOW to colonize more effectively. Then we'll just learn what we need to from there.
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Definately a no for me. I think we should focus on setting our actual planet straight first before spending trillions of dollars on space equipment that is just going to further divide our race and invest it into something like helping stop global warming and something like desertification, which would allow the human race to live thousands of years longer.
But if you think about it, the chances of finding a planet that we can actually live on, and the distance needed to travel to it, and the money needed to be spent to get there and actually develop it is practically 3 times the global budget. Why cant we invest even 1/100 of that into something important like saving the earth from our own destruction
But if you think about it, the chances of finding a planet that we can actually live on, and the distance needed to travel to it, and the money needed to be spent to get there and actually develop it is practically 3 times the global budget. Why cant we invest even 1/100 of that into something important like saving the earth from our own destruction
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I give a big hell yeah to space colonization because it would do so much good for the job market. The problem with the job market is that we have too many people for not enough jobs. Imagine how many people it would take to colonize a completely new planet. You need farmers to cultivate, engineers for building, doctors (because with new planet possibly comes new disease and bacteria), construction workers, and so many more.
Space colonization = recession fixer
Space colonization = recession fixer
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It would be interesting for that to happen but I do not believe that it will happen in my lifetime.
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Colonizing space is a good a bad idea people living space would suffer from bone deterioration unless we figure how to cure that theirs no way atm to colonize space
that's why astronauts can only go up into space x amount of times.
that's why astronauts can only go up into space x amount of times.
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Silverc wrote...
Colonizing space is a good a bad idea people living space would suffer from bone deterioration unless we figure how to cure that theirs no way atm to colonize spacethat's why astronauts can only go up into space x amount of times.
everyone.
go read the manga known as planetes.
some of your various other questions maybe answered there haha!
as for flaser:
your gawddamd right.
and another thing is the influx of constant gravity on a person's weight.
should read up on the lives of ISS residents. should prove mind boggling a bit.
oh yea! and kessler's syndrome!