the pope and the church

I'd like to hear what you guys think about the pope and the church. I'd esspecially like to hear from you religious folk here on Fakku. I'll explain more as i recieve replies.

I'm not a religious persons whatsoever but from what I've seen and heard he's a good guy. I don't think that a pope would be a bad guy.

I'm not gonna start another religious argument (already tired of them). I have only 1 thing to say about your post in that other thread(that talk doesn't belong there).

God's a jealous and just God. The meaning of justice has greatly changed over the centuries. The phrase "wrath of God" could be translated into "punishment of God"(go dictionaries).

As for the topic....the church was corrupted(some still are) and I think the Pope is a cool guy.

No opinion on this topic.

I wasnt gonna argue about the pope being a bad guy. I was more referring to the position itself. The pope is a most effective way at disproving the entire christian faith. Not your god though.

Perhaps if you elaborated a bit more, people would be more willing to discuss. I know I would.

The Pope visited my country about two weeks back and there was a lot of talk about him... he was overall described as a person fitting his position, different from J.P.II., but certainly not worse than him. As a pure atheist I don't give a damn about it unless I get hit by his Papamobile, so I can't give you my opinion on this.

But christianity, as well as most of the world religions, is some pretty crazy stuff for me so...

Fair enough. The crusades are wonderful. the popes at the time actually ordered them done and a later pope stated them to be imoral. This alone gives evidence that the church isnt above corruption, even its head. Sinse the church has been around for so long thats alot of time for it to get twisted.

if you take your scriptures literally then your truly full of shit. Sinse the church has rewritten the christian holy book a few times this implies that "god" changed his mind and is therefore NOT a perfect being or all powerful. That or it means the church is full of shit.

i wanted to get some other opinions first so i could properly dispute them. i really dont care if your god exists or not. but i can dispute the validity of how you view it. I've run into enough religious pushing assholes and brainwashed kids to have a strong opinion.

as for the pope himself i think one got assassinated more or less for refusing to be corrupt and speaking out against the mafia. that says tons. hes just a person like any other to do good or otherwise like the rest of us. not the mouthpiece of god.

my opinion about pope are like some human that playing the role as god but without power i more prefer if there are no god in THIS world and i really mean it bcause god are human themself and human are god..
there are ways we could create being like the act of god creating man. sooo it's not strange if i say in my own way i also could created another type of mankind..
this act alone aren't the proof enough to say that human are the creator off all...?
pope in this case are just want to constraint the way of people to achieve their own goal saying that everything they do are evil in fact when they say "god forgive your sin" are the really the act of sin itself...

hmm.. anyway i am also a follower of Ch----- but i prefer if you say i am the follower of all anti-god(anti chirst/anti islam).

there will be time in the next following year that us human can create something from nothing to something. believe me. there will.

While there are religious pushing assholes, I wouldn't really say brainwashed kids. Just because kids have a strong faith it doesn't mean they're brainwashed.

I hate how people say Christians are pushing their faith on others when all they really do is preach. They're not forcing anyone to listen to them or convert to their religion. (I know you never say that, I'm just saying this in advance before someone could mention it)

Also, people completely ignore other religions when it comes to "forcing" their religion on them which really pisses me off.

The kid part came from my encounter with a number of middle schoolers. They were completely incapable of thining for themselfs and when someone (like me) spoke out against the shit they were regurgitating they would get somewhat violent in responce. the thought of what they would end up as down the road really scared me.

Im not ignoring other religions though. its just christianity is the most widespread. The islamic religion is so much worse in practice then anything else i can think of.

man... cant you take two extra seconds to order your ideas? I mean, really...



Most Christians, kids or otherwise, aren't like that. At least the ones I know in my country. In fact, they are all the contrary. You just had bad luck in meeting the worse end of the spectrum. As with all religions, there are all kinds of persons.



So what if one pope ordered the crusades and then a later one said they were immoral? That does not prove anything, seeing as both were just humans, with different views, not necessarily corrupt, just seeing different things when reading the same book, like all of us. Am not saying they might not have been corrupt, mind you. Am just this specific example is not proof at alll.

You know, if God exists (Once, I wholeheartedly believed, but now im not sure) I think he is just, because he is God. His justice is not our justice. You could say his justice is his will. Hence, whatever he decides/has decided is just. But thats just how I think God is/would be if he existed.

Never said i thought they were all like that. I fully understand they are a distinct minority. doesnt change my statment. I have strong opinions because of these meetings otherwise i may not feel to strongly or care about religion.

As for the god bit you have to realise justise and good and evil are all human concepts and as such are ALL subjective. whatever your god sees you cant possably concieve asuming you think hes some perfect superior being. a good example of the subjective bit for justise being nature. A mouse is wandering around living when suddenly BAM, hes dead and in the clutches of a hawk. by common human rationalities it wasnt fair that its life got snuffed out so suddenly and as such isnt just. In terms of nature the strong win. The hawk is just in its action cause its still alive and will continue to be.

That's what I used to say but every time I said that, I was insulted, ridiculed and dismissed so I gave up on using that argument. It's a bit comforting knowing that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

I'm not fond of the current pope. Not only does he look like an evil high priest, I don't like his ultra conservative stance, either. And I can't forget that debacle with that excommunicated holocaust denier.

The last pope though, rocked. He travelled, a whole lot, and wherever he went he strongly supported the youth of the countries he went to. Many improvements where made to the religion during his reign -- generally, a better definition of the pope's infallability (the effect of which include that evolution is accepted as true in catholicism). Relations with jews also improved since the crap that went down during WWII.

To be honest I hate the pope, not only due to the fact that he is, as you said, conservative but also because he is superb at ruining the progress humans made with his stupid comments and actions.
Last but not least I can't stand him because he manages to ruin all the work we Germans put into improving our image and getting rid of prejudices.
My dislike for the catholic church and their antiquated things of looking upon life, hobbies etc aside, I hope that Ratzinger will just tone down and finish his job without any more major debacles.

I hate Catholic dogma more than any other form of Christian extremism, so... you really don't want to hear me start spouting off.

Thank you, George Carlin.

The current pope has said and done both some stupid things and some good things, so I'm kinda feeling grey about him, meaning; I don't care. The fact that he is the top head in the catholic church makes him quite hateable already.