The Purpose of Knowledge
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I've thought about this a lot, and I can't seem to find the right words, so I'll say it as simply as I can and hope that people understand it.
If a person knows that Archduke Ferdinand died in 1914, is it important? If a person can name all fifty states of the US, and their capitals, is it important? If a person knows that Kevin Smith spent more money on the soundtrack rights than on the entire production of Clerks, is it important?
What separates "useless" facts from "useful" facts? What makes a fact useful? If I think that learning about history is a waste of time, does that make me stupid? If I think that learning about movie trivia is a waste of time, does that make me an asshole?
Is all knowledge equal? If I know everything there is to know about video games, but nothing about politics, is that bad? What makes it bad? If I know everything there is to know about Charles Dickens's books, but nothing about geometry, is that bad?
Let's say there are two people. One knows a ton about TV trivia (shows and such, not when the TV was made or anything). The other knows a ton about ancient literature (Homer, Virgil, Hesiod, etc.). Just knowing these simple things, is it possible to say that one person is better than the other? Is it possible to at least think that one person is more respectable than the other?
I'm not touting any specific perspective here. I am just asking questions, to perhaps help me gain a better understanding.
If a person knows that Archduke Ferdinand died in 1914, is it important? If a person can name all fifty states of the US, and their capitals, is it important? If a person knows that Kevin Smith spent more money on the soundtrack rights than on the entire production of Clerks, is it important?
What separates "useless" facts from "useful" facts? What makes a fact useful? If I think that learning about history is a waste of time, does that make me stupid? If I think that learning about movie trivia is a waste of time, does that make me an asshole?
Is all knowledge equal? If I know everything there is to know about video games, but nothing about politics, is that bad? What makes it bad? If I know everything there is to know about Charles Dickens's books, but nothing about geometry, is that bad?
Let's say there are two people. One knows a ton about TV trivia (shows and such, not when the TV was made or anything). The other knows a ton about ancient literature (Homer, Virgil, Hesiod, etc.). Just knowing these simple things, is it possible to say that one person is better than the other? Is it possible to at least think that one person is more respectable than the other?
I'm not touting any specific perspective here. I am just asking questions, to perhaps help me gain a better understanding.
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tsuyoshiro
FAKKU Writer
I think, any knowledge, no matter how trivial is good. There is no such thing as 'bad' knowledge, no matter what people may tell you. You could know every damn last thing about math and calculus for example, and never once in your life would it come into any use. But being able to name who played vampire #3 in some slasher movie might earn you a million dollars on a gameshow one day. Or the opposite could happen. All knowledge has the potential to come in handy.
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To me, having sufficient knowledge of anything could prove useful. Doesn't matter if it's information is from bio chemistry or if it's something trivial from Code Geass, knowing something makes you smarter in some way. Like tsuyoushiro said, it doesn't matter what people say about the kind of knowledge you have pertaining to whatever topic being discussed, perhaps a chance may come along where the info you possess that was deemed "useless" may actually come in handy or may save a life. Having some knowledge of something is better than having no knowledge at all. In this case at least you have something to work with.
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Not intending to take all that you typed and turn it into such a small statement, but I believe the only useful information/knowledge is information/knowledge that applies to your life and that can be applied to the lives of those around you (those with significance to your own life).
It's like sports. I sometimes wonder why people care so much about all of the statistics, losses, wins, percentages, and so on. I wonder that because, when it comes down to it, those statistics aren't likely going to alter the lives of the people who know them. All it does is allow for you to have conversations about it. And unless those conversations prove to have an impact on your life, the knowledge is pretty much useless.
Think about that kid in the middle school math class (that you once had), who asked "Will this actually be useful in life?". Maybe that kid was you. Sure as hell was my ass, though later my opinion on education changed. Anyway, my point is, like math, many things in life aren't even all that useful. I've never had to solve a math problem to do anything in life (outside of school) and dealing with money. But surely, if when I used math, it wasn't anything beyond addition, multiplication, subtraction or division. All that other crap (no offense to math lovers), is a waste. IMO.
So again, Not intending to take all that you typed and turn it into such a small statement, but I believe the only useful information/knowledge is information/knowledge that applies to your life and that can be applied to the lives of those around you (those with significance to your own life). Without a strong impact on your life, why bother learning something? (other than for fun)
It's like sports. I sometimes wonder why people care so much about all of the statistics, losses, wins, percentages, and so on. I wonder that because, when it comes down to it, those statistics aren't likely going to alter the lives of the people who know them. All it does is allow for you to have conversations about it. And unless those conversations prove to have an impact on your life, the knowledge is pretty much useless.
Think about that kid in the middle school math class (that you once had), who asked "Will this actually be useful in life?". Maybe that kid was you. Sure as hell was my ass, though later my opinion on education changed. Anyway, my point is, like math, many things in life aren't even all that useful. I've never had to solve a math problem to do anything in life (outside of school) and dealing with money. But surely, if when I used math, it wasn't anything beyond addition, multiplication, subtraction or division. All that other crap (no offense to math lovers), is a waste. IMO.
So again, Not intending to take all that you typed and turn it into such a small statement, but I believe the only useful information/knowledge is information/knowledge that applies to your life and that can be applied to the lives of those around you (those with significance to your own life). Without a strong impact on your life, why bother learning something? (other than for fun)
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HentaiElder wrote...
Not intending to take all that you typed and turn it into such a small statement, but I believe the only useful information/knowledge is information/knowledge that applies to your life and that can be applied to the lives of those around you (those with significance to your own life).
It's like sports. I sometimes wonder why people care so much about all of the statistics, losses, wins, percentages, and so on. I wonder that because, when it comes down to it, those statistics aren't likely going to alter the lives of the people who know them. All it does is allow for you to have conversations about it. And unless those conversations prove to have an impact on your life, the knowledge is pretty much useless.
Think about that kid in the middle school math class (that you once had), who asked "Will this actually be useful in life?". Maybe that kid was you. Sure as hell was my ass, though later my opinion on education changed. Anyway, my point is, like math, many things in life aren't even all that useful. I've never had to solve a math problem to do anything in life (outside of school) and dealing with money. But surely, if when I used math, it wasn't anything beyond addition, multiplication, subtraction or division. All that other crap (no offense to math lovers), is a waste. IMO.
So again, Not intending to take all that you typed and turn it into such a small statement, but I believe the only useful information/knowledge is information/knowledge that applies to your life and that can be applied to the lives of those around you (those with significance to your own life). Without a strong impact on your life, why bother learning something? (other than for fun)
It's like sports. I sometimes wonder why people care so much about all of the statistics, losses, wins, percentages, and so on. I wonder that because, when it comes down to it, those statistics aren't likely going to alter the lives of the people who know them. All it does is allow for you to have conversations about it. And unless those conversations prove to have an impact on your life, the knowledge is pretty much useless.
Think about that kid in the middle school math class (that you once had), who asked "Will this actually be useful in life?". Maybe that kid was you. Sure as hell was my ass, though later my opinion on education changed. Anyway, my point is, like math, many things in life aren't even all that useful. I've never had to solve a math problem to do anything in life (outside of school) and dealing with money. But surely, if when I used math, it wasn't anything beyond addition, multiplication, subtraction or division. All that other crap (no offense to math lovers), is a waste. IMO.
So again, Not intending to take all that you typed and turn it into such a small statement, but I believe the only useful information/knowledge is information/knowledge that applies to your life and that can be applied to the lives of those around you (those with significance to your own life). Without a strong impact on your life, why bother learning something? (other than for fun)
That's actually part of what I wanted to say. Some knowledge that is held in high esteem is practically worthless. Like the guy who knows about ancient literature - he may be cultured and well-read and respected, but does it matter? Even if he earns a living from it, by teaching other people about ancient literature, it's still not important, right? Yet he, and society, can look down on people who spend their time reading and learning about the Star Wars universe. Is that right?
So far, I am very happy with the replies to this thread, guys. Thanks for posting, all of you. :)
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I used to think, as a teenager, that erudition is valuable by itself; that being well-read and knowledgeable on as broad a range of subjects as possible makes you a better person, so to speak.
Then one day I woke up and realized the truth: The contrary is true. Knowledge is only handy when you have an immediate, practical use for it; other than that, ignorance is bliss. The more you know, the more frustrated you will be.
Then one day I woke up and realized the truth: The contrary is true. Knowledge is only handy when you have an immediate, practical use for it; other than that, ignorance is bliss. The more you know, the more frustrated you will be.
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Knowledge is relative - what you perceive as useful fact may not be what another person believes it to be, keyword believes. Sure, we've been indoctrinated by the school systems of whatever nation you're from, and honestly, who the heck is going to need to know that Mesopotamia was one of the earliest and greatest empires in the Middle East to ever exist from world history class? Unless you were a historian or had a passion for Middle Eastern culture, most people don't care and wouldn't bother committing it to memory. Knowledge is what we make it out to be - it's there waiting to be used by whomever and for whatever purpose.
@ShaggyJebus: Honestly, I can give a shit if others perceive the knowledge ancient literature as a hold over me - I live in the real world, and you tell me where you can make decent money by knowing ancient literature. I use whatever knowledge I need to know to live and survive and to enjoy myself, and this is especially true once you step out of the classroom and into the real world where irrelevant facts will become forgotten.
@ShaggyJebus: Honestly, I can give a shit if others perceive the knowledge ancient literature as a hold over me - I live in the real world, and you tell me where you can make decent money by knowing ancient literature. I use whatever knowledge I need to know to live and survive and to enjoy myself, and this is especially true once you step out of the classroom and into the real world where irrelevant facts will become forgotten.
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I was trying to refute your point, but really I can't think of a reason to have knowledge. I've even thought about the same thing during long boring math classes learning formulas that I'll never use wondering, "What's the point of all this?"
I guess the only answer to your statement is that, there might arise a time when there is a need to use that knowledge. To impress your girlfriend, or to make connections in society for social networking.
So what I'm trying to say is, if nothing else, knowledge is good for socializing with others. Though the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know anything, and want to go back to when I was a kid when I didn't know anything...
I guess the only answer to your statement is that, there might arise a time when there is a need to use that knowledge. To impress your girlfriend, or to make connections in society for social networking.
So what I'm trying to say is, if nothing else, knowledge is good for socializing with others. Though the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know anything, and want to go back to when I was a kid when I didn't know anything...
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PersonDude wrote...
So what I'm trying to say is, if nothing else, knowledge is good for socializing with others.Is it though? The more you know on any given subject, the more you will annoy others with your knowledge, and the more you will be annoyed by their nonsense.
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gibbous wrote...
Is it though? The more you know on any given subject, the more you will annoy others with your knowledge, and the more you will be annoyed by their nonsense.From personal experience, I have to say yes.
You find common ground with another person if you guys can share the knowledge or can converse over something both are familiar. Of course there is a probability some might become agitated hearing you drone on about something they don't understand as I've been in this situation. It really also depends on how the person present themselves; If they are to forward about their knowledge and there is cynicism present in their tone, you can't help but be annoyed. But more often then not, I've seen it have a positive effect in socialization.
Especially in Asia, since knowledge is big over there. :D
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PersonDude wrote...
You find common ground with another person if you guys can share the knowledge or can converse over something both are familiar. Of course there is a probability some might become agitated hearing you drone on about something they don't understand as I've been in this situation. It really also depends on how the person present themselves; If they are to forward about their knowledge and there is cynicism present in their tone, you can't help but be annoyed. But more often then not, I've seen it have a positive effect in socialization. Ah, what I meant is that people hate to be wrong, or when someone disagrees. Humans love agreement.
Person A has expertise (is knowledgeable) on subject X
Person B relies on crude, but popular layman's theories about X
Person B will react hostile to A's knowledge of X, simply because A disagrees, even if person A frames it non-confrontationally. The best A can do is feign ignorance (I always do! It works!), but that raises the question of whether A's knowledge really has any use in socializing.
Person A in turn will be put off by person B's perceived ignorance and hostility.
A would be better off not spending any time and brain capacity on subject X, where X is anything not immediately concerned with his or her trade, his or her survival, etc.
If neither person A nor B had any expertise in X, both would rely on superstition or popular layman's theories and find solace in perpetual agreement.
Society at large is hostile to expertise (QQ) that is of no immediate use to it (e.g. "how to repair a car" when a vehicle is broken), therefore it is most efficient not to have any superfluous knowledge.
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gibbous wrote...
Ah, what I meant is that people hate to be wrong, or when someone disagrees. Humans love agreement.Person A has expertise (is knowledgeable) on subject X
Person B relies on crude, but popular layman's theories about X
Person B will react hostile to A's knowledge of X, simply because A disagrees, even if person A frames it non-confrontationally. The best A can do is feign ignorance (I always do! It works!), but that raises the question of whether A's knowledge really has any use in socializing.
Person A in turn will be put off by person B's perceived ignorance and hostility.
A would be better off not spending any time and brain capacity on subject X, where X is anything not immediately concerned with his or her trade, his or her survival, etc.
If neither person A nor B had any expertise in X, both would rely on superstition or popular layman's theories and find solace in perpetual agreement.
Society at large is hostile to expertise (QQ) that is of no immediate use to it (e.g. "how to repair a car" when a vehicle is broken), therefore it is most efficient not to have any superfluous knowledge.
Seeing as how I've been in both Person A and B's situation (I'm human *Shrugs*), I can say this scenario would be a negative in a social encounter.
As you said, humans hate disagreement, but it'll happen whether knowledge is involved or not though it can increase the probability of disagreement. But it doesn't happen quite enough for me to change my mind that knowledge has a negative effect on social life, so I guess it really depends on the person and/or the group they socialize with. :?
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For me useful knowledge is everything. Its just that if is more relevant to what you do most of the time then that is what makes it more useful. Knowledge is power. What I think is that the more things you know the more it will help you. Such as going into a gameshow and winning a million dollars. But sometimes the knowledge is wasted and it will never be used. Thats now saying it is not useful.
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I used to think that knowledge was just something I needed, something that would I just needed, whether to seem more intelligent or be able to argue with someone. Though it is likely that knowing more was something to fuel my own self-confidence.
My opinion has changed now, to the point I believe that knowledge is only useful if and only if you can use it. The problem is, how do you know if the knowledge you are gaining will or will not be used later? I don't know the answer to that question, and thus I attempt to know as much as I can.
My opinion has changed now, to the point I believe that knowledge is only useful if and only if you can use it. The problem is, how do you know if the knowledge you are gaining will or will not be used later? I don't know the answer to that question, and thus I attempt to know as much as I can.
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It seems that a lot of people are saying that knowledge is useful if it can be used. Well, all knowledge can be used in some way (even if it's only quoting random facts for the sake of being random), so we should say that knowledge is useful if it can be used productively. But what exactly does it mean to be productive?
If I use my knowledge to make money, is that productive? If I value money, then it is productive, I suppose, but that just doesn't seem right. If I earn money because of my knowledge, then I probably learned the knowledge because I enjoy it, right? If I didn't enjoy the subject, then I probably don't enjoy the job, so despite having money, I'm not happy. Is that right? And if I'm not happy, then the knowledge isn't being used productively, is it?
Ah, that's giving me a headache. Moving on:
If knowledge is only worthwhile if it is productive and helpful, then can anyone bitch me out for not knowing anything about geography? Can people say that I'm stupid if I don't know exactly where Iran is? Since I don't plan to ever travel, I don't really need to know where anything is, right? If I ever decided to go to the Middle East, I'd probably study up, but as it stands, I have no plans whatsoever to have anything to do with the Middle East, so should I know anything about its geography?
If I use my knowledge to make money, is that productive? If I value money, then it is productive, I suppose, but that just doesn't seem right. If I earn money because of my knowledge, then I probably learned the knowledge because I enjoy it, right? If I didn't enjoy the subject, then I probably don't enjoy the job, so despite having money, I'm not happy. Is that right? And if I'm not happy, then the knowledge isn't being used productively, is it?
Ah, that's giving me a headache. Moving on:
If knowledge is only worthwhile if it is productive and helpful, then can anyone bitch me out for not knowing anything about geography? Can people say that I'm stupid if I don't know exactly where Iran is? Since I don't plan to ever travel, I don't really need to know where anything is, right? If I ever decided to go to the Middle East, I'd probably study up, but as it stands, I have no plans whatsoever to have anything to do with the Middle East, so should I know anything about its geography?
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
If I use my knowledge to make money, is that productive? If I value money, then it is productive, I suppose, but that just doesn't seem right. If I earn money because of my knowledge, then I probably learned the knowledge because I enjoy it, right? If I didn't enjoy the subject, then I probably don't enjoy the job, so despite having money, I'm not happy. Is that right? And if I'm not happy, then the knowledge isn't being used productively, is it?I believe that productivity in terms of yourself is determined by the fact that you gain something from doing something. So, I would say that, despite being unhappy, you would be productive. EDIT: Because money is very important, no matter what people think.
ShaggyJebus wrote...
If knowledge is only worthwhile if it is productive and helpful, then can anyone bitch me out for not knowing anything about geography? Can people say that I'm stupid if I don't know exactly where Iran is? Since I don't plan to ever travel, I don't really need to know where anything is, right? If I ever decided to go to the Middle East, I'd probably study up, but as it stands, I have no plans whatsoever to have anything to do with the Middle East, so should I know anything about its geography?Since you have no plans whatsoever to do anything related to the Middle East, I would say that knowledge of its geography is not necessary. It would be nice to know for the sake of knowing, or in the off chance that you get abducted and taken to the middle East.
Yes, people "can" bitch you out. The question is whether they "should". It all depends on how important they think the subject of the other's ignorance is to themselves.
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I'm quite surprised nobody thought about this earlier but ...
Knowledge for the very most people is never something we seek. It doesn't matter if it's useful or not since you didn't have to do anything to gather it. Knowledge is just a bunch of information you get to learn by any mean, school, TV, or anything, and most of the time you don't care about it. Your memory randomly make you remember facts, and when the subject comes into your mind, you just got it ready to discuss or so.
The point is you can discuss on how it could be useful or not in your life, everybody's still gonna have some knowledge. But then, feel free to use it or not, it's just your decision.
Of course, if someone actually seek for knowledge, then ... I guess it'll really be a loss of time, because knowing when random knowledge would be useful is impossible.
Knowledge for the very most people is never something we seek. It doesn't matter if it's useful or not since you didn't have to do anything to gather it. Knowledge is just a bunch of information you get to learn by any mean, school, TV, or anything, and most of the time you don't care about it. Your memory randomly make you remember facts, and when the subject comes into your mind, you just got it ready to discuss or so.
The point is you can discuss on how it could be useful or not in your life, everybody's still gonna have some knowledge. But then, feel free to use it or not, it's just your decision.
Of course, if someone actually seek for knowledge, then ... I guess it'll really be a loss of time, because knowing when random knowledge would be useful is impossible.
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Knowledge equals intelligence equals a larger mana pool.
...Sorry, serious post aster I walk my dog and read the rest of the topic.
...Sorry, serious post aster I walk my dog and read the rest of the topic.
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
What separates "useless" facts from "useful" facts?I'll start off by saying this, "Humans are the barometer of value." We believe gold is valuable, therefore it is. If you believe certain facts or information are valuable to you in some way, then it is useful. I do not value sports statistics one bit, hence it's useless to me and my life.
Fumako wrote...
Knowledge for the very most people is never something we seek.Yet by going to college, you are seeking knowledge.
Fumako wrote...
you didn't have to do anything to gather it.Reading a book to find out it's ending is doing something.
Fumako wrote...
knowing when random knowledge would be useful is impossible.I disagree. If I value certain knowledge I pick up, like some guy getting run over and suddenly exploding(play along), then I know its usefulness since I'm remembering this knowledge to tell others about it.
