The rape of nanking

i was reading a history book called "the rape of nanking"
basically about the Japanese occupation of the Chinese village of nanking
which was 10X worse the brutality of the Holocaust I'm talking about beheading contest that reached the 100s and Japanese soldiers forcing sons to rape theres mothers and fathers to rape there daughters and of course Japanese raping Chinese and Japanese mutilating the Chinese. It was so bad a Nazi offered help to the Chinese, and whats worse is that no one nowadays knows about it the Japanese refuse it ever happened even when presented with pictures the Japanese vets don't talk about it
So i guess what I'm getting at is why the rape of nanking has been overlooked in our educational curriculum?

Probably because nothing really came of it. It was a relatively small (by numbers) incident and it had no effect on the war or the cultures of either side.

Perhaps not. But it had a huge effect on that generation. My grandparents absolutely hate the Japanese due to the things they did in WWII. Trust me when I say hate. I asked my grandfather once and he told me and I quote: "The only good Jap, is a dead one." (Rough translation, but that's pretty much what he told me. It was originally in Cantonese).

It was a rather closed incident.

But... it had the highest deaths in the shortest amount of time in WWII.

Like 200k of people killed in one week...

not over time like xenocide of the juden peoples.

I like how no one mentions the growing movements by japanese students and their left wing party to start teaching this. Or the college students self educating themselves on it. It's only the revisionist ultra right wing guys that get any attention.

thats only part of it my friend.

the government refuses to teach/let the history be known of what happened in WW2.

actually they would still deny it.

I'm not saying that The revisionism doesn't exist. However I find it odd that American commentators never mention that the topic of revisionism is even in Japan becoming controversial. There is still a large lapse in good judgment on the part of the right wing controlled government to make peace with this issue. I won't deny that. But I'd like to once see an American at least acknowledge the protests going on in japan in modern years over changing that notion. I have a feeling I'll never actually see one of my countrymen do such a thing however.

It was certainly an atrocity of the worst kind. But there are Japanese who feel strongly that it was a terrible event. There were historians like Ienaga Saburo who worked tirelessly to call attention to what happened. In college I had a history professor who was a Japanese lady whose life was largely consumed with confronting the complacence of historical inaccuracy in the war. But in the end, there are two powerful barriers to acknowledgment of what Japan did in Asia:

1) It was vitally important that Japan be made into a state completely aligned with US interests. Culpability was less important than giving the impression of the nation having a fresh start. Also, when the revolution took place in 1949, China was perceived to have fallen into the competing Soviet sphere of influence, and thus sympathizing with its people was discouraged.

2) People just don't want to be part of something that shaming on a national level. It's like being a fan of a sports team, people want the glory most of all and don't want to stick around during the bad parts. It's really hard to have empathy on a large scale, and people want to protect themselves from having to feel guilty all the time. I could talk about how this happens in the present day but it might touch off a lot of unrelated political debating.

I was lucky enough to see Iris Chang give a presentation about her final book. I was really sad to hear she died. I was in Japan when she died and they reported it on the news, but unfortunately I didn't know enough Japanese at the time to see how they were covering her death.

You have my thanks sir.

Yeah, I can talk about this a lot since the class I took from that professor was literally about this subject, dissent about the war effort within Japan. While the dissent wasn't politically effective, it certainly existed. In the US we think of Japan as this completely uniform society but there's always clashes of political opinions and the government's official position doesn't always reflect what the people think. But despite saying that, I'd probably still agree that most of the people in Japan don't know about what happened in Nanking, in the same way that most people from a lot of different countries aren't aware of their country's most shameful historical moments. Like I said earlier, I think at some point people just don't want to feel culpable for the mistakes of their countrymen. That doesn't mean that nobody is ever responsible for bad things happening, but it shouldn't be a surprising phenomenon.

Is there a translated version of that book? I'm gonna buy a copy.

Btw, the japanese were cruel with practically everybody during the world war. Here in the philippines, luckily we had kinder soldiers here. We just got our women raped and our men beheaded. They probably were kinder to us because they were trying to convince us to join them. They even tried to convert us from Christianity to Shintoism.

I don't know why they were thoroughly brutal with the Chinese, but what I know is among the japanese, they treat you a traitor if you show "unnecessary" mercy.

Plus the Chinese got Ip Man, so no worries.

I think the knowledge for history like this is important, but to an extent as well - for both the victims and ones responsible. There's education, and then there's grudges.

This would probably be a bad time to state this, especially now that rep is back ;p

The holocaust is a good example on an event where almost everybody is educated on, and it was a large scale event. Though times have changed and people have moved on. I come from a German settlement in America in Pennsylvania and have a strong German background. I've had Jewish friends and not once have I ever felt responsible or have they ever felt victimized by my heritage being present. Nor has it ever been a topic. The holocaust is a respected event of something everyone should remember of 'what not to do' in the future. Unfortunately there are still hate groups such as Neo Nazi's who still carry on ideals that were in the past. Not quite the same, but it stems from the same root.

Slavery is an example of an ongoing event where there are still grudges, hatred, and the feeling of being victimized. A large handful of black African American's still feel that they are treated unfairly, they are hated on for their color, and bare grudges to white American's. There are also many cases where that card is played unjustifiably. Again, unfortunately there are still hate groups out there such as Neo Nazi's, KKK, skinheads, etc who have a biased hatred towards a different colored race. It's an ongoing situation, and that's all I can really say.

I have never been to Japan, and I have never really known any true Japanese folk. However, when I think of Japan I think of a lot of pride. Japan may be ashamed to what has happened in the past, I do not believe this is an excuse to not educate people from what has occurred in the past, because learning from the past is important.

But LD said it very well, people are very patriotic about their countries, and every single country has something shameful to remember about. Whether it be their fault, whether they were victimized, or just downright wrong. It's hard for, especially older generations to accept something that happened during their time. If I had been part of WWII, alive and in Germany instead of the United States - I wouldn't speak the same about the holocaust. I would feel 1 of 2 things: Shame and regret or continued hatred.

I've been to Japan, but all of them are busy with work, studying, and cosplaying in public (seriously, and it's hot, I tell you). Nobody wants to remember the horrible things they did and/or experienced, that's why we probably don't see public propagandas in Israel against Germans, nor in China against the Japanese. And yes, contrary to Filipinos, the Japanese people are usually prideful. My family's line of work is sending people to Japan to work (its legal jobs, I tell you) and whenever them Japanese come to our place for a business meet, they still smoke even though there's a huge noticeable sign in the wall saying not to do so.

Agreed, people should know of what they did (most of their victimized countries already do), but let's not put them in the spotlight to shame them, now that we live an era of partial peace. I say we should let the matter be commonly known, but not brainwash our kids that "the Japanese are gonna rape you, force us to rape you, then behead us, so run for your lives!"

I say just put the book in the list of literary works needed to be read by College students in their Literature or English class.

This thread should be a really interesting read.. :3

Though I do think that Japan should acknowledge Nanjing and teach the current generation about what actually happened in WWII, I am of the position that they should be very careful on how they approach this. Nanjing is still a very touchy event to PRC and to it's citizens. And rightfully so, just imagine if Germany had done the same to Paris after the invasion and occupation of France. However, if the Japanese do not go about this in the right way then they could inadvertently cause anti-Japanese sentiment in China to boil over. Right now I don't know if there ever will be a "right time" for Japan to bring this up. They are still in a very precarious position between the super powers of the US and China, with any shift between the two being potentially disastrous. Just look at Obama's current trip to Asia. In China he is being lambasted for America's continued support of and strategic dependency on Japan. Luckily that's not a main issue, but it still shows how much China to this day does not trust Japan.

The worst case scenario, one that I am almost certain will happen to some degree in Japan, is that the people will not accept Nanjing as real. Much like the holocaust conspiracy movement in the US, but on a much broader scale. This is in part because the majority of the Japanese people do not know anything about Nanjing. It is also because Japan has changed so rapidly since the 1940's that for the current generation it would be nearly impossible to imagine a country known for this ->



could ever be capable of this ->



And, if anyone were to force this out into the public view it would cause a media frenzy that would infuriate the Chinese.

Its funny though... The common ancestors of most East-Asian nations came from China, and the giant dragon got kicked in the nads by Japan, ironically one of its descendant nation...

Japan should just apologize sincerely, pay up for their war cri- oh yeah... world wide recession.

I think it has been long enough. I don't have a good bearing on the docility of the Japanese Public, but I think that they have gone the distance in getting away from the war's atrocities. Look at this like reparations from former slaveholding families. It is a nice gesture, but nobody really knows anyone who was a slave anymore, and while the effects are still felt, they are attributed to a related problem (bigotry and ignorance) rather than the "source issue."

WWII is a bit different, being more recent, but I think it's the same issue. Let the past be the past. The people have enlightened themselves beyond their forefathers, do the same for yourself.

(On the discussion topic: That was horrible, they should teach it. At least among Japanese communities, seeing as this is their personal history. Kind've like the atrocities committed during the Crusades)

My older generations think so too, especially my grandparents who had experienced the Japanese occupation. Of course, i have no animosity towards the Japanese (this is a hentai site after all), im more disgruntled that the japanese government tried to "cover" it up or downplayed it. Though its in the chinese/australian point as we were the victims. How would you feel if your dad/gramps/ancestor was involved in an atrocity? I would be ashamed.

Well I can partly understand why they are trying to keep it under wraps, at least partially. Fact is, that the modern media, the people that consume it without thinking etc are always quick to brand people with a certain stamp to make themselves more important.
It should be part of the history lessons, so that people (hopefully) don't make the same mistakes again, however in my opinion, it does not need to be chewed up again and (if you allow me to say so) the current generations shouldn't need to atone for what the previous generations did wrong during a chaotic period, to say the least.

Got Alot of Experience there Ziggy.. hey that is my cousins name.."Ziggy"