The US Govt restarting Guantanamo Bay

The fervour of fear has not been ably assisted by the ongoing debacle in Afghanistan, controversial developments in scanning (widely implemented), and fairly recent bombing attempts. All of those issues mentioned are derivative of that wider problem, which has all but prevented the big push for reforms that Obama would need. That, and the bully pulpit is otherwise engaged.

I don't really see the problem in restarting Guantanamo Bay, but the whole torture issue makes it a sensitive topic. Torture is a pretty inefficient and at the same time cruel method, not really sure who they do things over there, but I have a feeling the media may be juicing this up to more than it really is. What REALLY concerns me is the process of while a suspect may be held, this is the fucking United States of America, where people are innocent until proven guilty. It contradicts too much with what we stand for.

yea sorry bout that done with that bit i might pm you later if i rember.


but on G.B. if i may ask why is it such a big thing? you hear about it a lot, this entire topic being a pointed fact on that. so why does everyone make a big deal bout it?

Guys, again - I'm not being naive here. They don't torture people at Gitmo (anymore >.>). It isn't the torture headquarters where you send people who won't break. It is a place where the government puts people who are an obvious threat yet the government knows it would get tied up in legalities if it were to bring or hold these people on US soil. Couple that with the bottle neck of trials and you have a situation where the government is keeping people for a longer amount of time then they even want to.

Remember, the US Government isn't one giant moving machine of efficiency. The White House, both houses of Congress, and the supreme court have all had there finger in the pie of what to do with the prisoners at Gitmo an they often purposefully undermine each others attempts to reshape it they way they see fit. So they don't keep people there to be cruel - shit just don't work right.

@Xiox - Innocent until proven guilty, but you still go to jail to await trail. We don't catch a murderer and tell him to go home until his court date :\. Not only that, but many of these people aren't US citizens, and like mentioned they are not on US soil so your rights change.

They didn't used to torture people at Guantanamo Bay either. You lose the basis of trust the first time around. It has stigmata associated with it already.

Quite frankly, I don't care that the president didn't close Gitmo. It wasn't going to happen to begin with. As to the people that voted for him because he promised to shut it down shows a poor lack of judgment. As a side topic, the votes of individual citizens, and I'm going to put this as simply as possible, don't count for shit. Votes from the electoral collage are what count. The votes from citizens only show how they want their representatives to vote, However, the representatives don't have to listen to what their public (constituents) want. Though if they ignore the people who got them elected, they will most likely not get elected again. Now on to torture. I have to agree with with Tegumi on that. But for the sake of argument, I'll continue. What do you consider torture? If you truly believe that water boarding is horrible... well, I'll meet you half way on that. It's a (somewhat) cruel way to get information, but it is NOT widely used and was mainly used on people that had a good deal of evidence supporting possible terrorist activities. And even then, it was RARELY used. Stress positions were used far more often than water boarding, but are still not used often. BTW, a stress position is when they put your body into a "stressful" position which causes a great deal of discomfort after a certain amount of time (depending on what position they are put in). As an example, think about standing at parade rest or sitting on your knees for several hours. If you still believe that it is too harsh, think about all the other forms of torture that leave the recipient physically and psychologically scarred.

Jesus Christ When will the world's trouble's end desu?

They end when only one group of people stand dominant, and that group will break into civil war and so on and so forth...

You know what my mom told me desu,When there is world piece that's when the anti-Christ will come.Just when we think everything is back to normal desu.

That sounds right, peace cant exist in our world apparently

Human rights are for humans, not enemies of the state.
As we know, no sane or right person could ever go against the ideals and motions of our great powerful nation. So we house these great evils in one place away from humanity. Just whose hand is in motion and who makes these decisions, just hope you don't end up on that end all be all shitlist that gets you landed in G-Bay.


There's plenty of siberian labor camps you could be in that are worse right?

If they can completely reform their policies on the treatment of people in that facility (i.e. no more torture, no more inhumane treatment), then I suppose it's okay for the facility to be reopened (it would pretty much just be another detaining center). If not, however, it's really a shame that Obama would go back on such a key issue ~ that place was a nightmare for the people who were imprisoned in it.

It is a big deal because it is not really reliable. Most people will tell you what you want to hear right or wrong just so you will stop.

Do you even know what kind of prison gitmo is ? You should read "For God and Country" first by James Yee. Do you even know how smart the commanding officer there to hide a fact to press that actually they imprisoning innocent under-aged kids in there without clear reason, even those kids don't commit any crimes.

@trekki859 : For some people, it ain't a big deal, even some people don't even know what g.b. is. The problem is, if the so called "Al-Q terrorists" are counted as normal criminal, why with those despicable prison, from the condition, the way the guard torture prisoner, even to everything that stated in Universal Declaration of Human Rights aren't applied there. So the bottom line is, if g.b. is approved by the fn' U.N., maybe all prison in the world should have the same standard as gitmo then. Shit man, shit. If the states had time for this kind of shit, then they should've fix their country first. They hang Saddam, but they don't even had the balls to do the same to Ratko Mladic and his companies. They imprison Muntadar Al-Zaidi for throwing shoes at Bush, but nobody yappin a shit when Bush throwing warheads to Iraq that kill woman and children. Is that not a problem for you ? If not my friend, perhaps God really darken your heart and mind then as God promised.

Mine was quite O.K - bully-free because now the one who administers the bullying is the teachers themselves - but it was done in a good will :-) Had a mate once fired with AK alone (sure its was blank cartridges - but enough to make him peed in his pants) in a private after class because he didn't engage his safety (for 3 times) during field test practice.

Apparently our instructor is quite tolerant for the first and 2nd, but he snapped at the 3rd. And no, this didn't take place in US soil but approximately 13,719 kilometer south of California :-D

Other than that we were treated with respect as the one who will take their place in defending the country - one man honestly state "the time when us wore adult diapers or when us started to go soft on you kids"

So (sometimes) military school ain't that bad :-D

Now about the Guantanamo Bay, he must knew it was quite hypocritical of him but I think it's a necessity - better than placing them stateside - god knows what happen when they released themselves into the population :-(

I think it is a good thing to shut it down, but not restart it.

They need to shut it down because of the torture and how they used to do experiments on the prisoners in the 1940's.

I personally believe torture is used more as a method of entertainment and domination over the subject then of any reliable method of extracting information.

I think we should just have a stern talk with the inmates and then let them go.