2D fighter VS 3D fighting games

Virtua Fighter and Tekken are known for their difficulty levels. Way harder than pretty much any 2D game.

Take things past the basic levels, you'll see.

True Story B-)

Well I got a copy of BlazeBlue Continuum shift extend and I am really enjoying it (which is why I haven't posted back recently). The controls are a lot easier to use and master, and the analogue stick isn't too much of a bother. However this game is a bit too "button mash friendly" in my opinion, I can just spam the triangle (or B) for Noel and win pretty easily (but of course there's no fun in that and it doesn't work all the time). Hopefully this game will give me a better footing when I trying to play KOF again and other 2D fighters.

I Play 2d Fighters more than 3d (except Soul Calibur)
and Blazblue is helluva a ride too !

You seem to be jumping to conclusions far too fast.

Noel has been known to be a spam friendly character.

I don't want to ruin the party but... The whole 2d vs 3d fighter type of discussion might not be very useful :(.

Mainly because:

• Some 2d fighters are so dramatically different than some other 2d fighters, and some 3d fighters are so dramatically different than some other 3d fighters

• People might play one 3d/2d game, and then make a comment about the entire 3d/2d "genre" in a very misleading way inadvertently despite that game not a proper "representation" of the entire genre (if there is such a game?)

• People might mistakenly classify games into the wrong category, such as 2.5d games (3d graphic games with a 2d gameplay).

For the sake of discussion, it might be easier to speak specifics about individual games. There are ways to group fighting games into proper groups... by air mobility and combos length/type... but this might not be that useful...

ie:
Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, Persona 4: "2d gameplay with air dashes, double jumps/cancels, and lengthy chain-combos"
Street Fighter IV: "2d gameplay with no extra air actions with small-medium link-combos"

But I feel like this would be just be making it overly complicated. :/




If you've played every 2d game in existence at a professional level then maybe you could make that claim (as well as VF and Tekken to compare), otherwise I'll just /bonk you for making such a statement!

/bonk KawaiianPunch XD

Would have to agree with KP here. For Tekken, it's been known for a while that if you want to be good at Tekken, you need to have played at least two of the previous games. There are just so many nuances and different things to get used to. It's a hard game to just jump in and be good at.

Whereas with 2D fighters, pick it up and you can be good at it.

I love both, although i'm more proficient when it comes to 3d games.

Which is why I love the Street Fighter X Tekken and Tekken X Street Fighter Project being developed by Namco and Capcom :3

Apples & Oranges. I enjoyed them both for spectacularly different reasons. It's like comparing CoD to Counter-Strike. Two different shooting games thematically, and functionally. I'm a much bigger fan of Tekken, but I do love UMVC3, and Third Strike, and so forth.

It also depends how you look at "difficult", getting an EWGF in Tekken may seem easy to some, but pain-in-the-ass difficult to MANY people who have never played Tekken before. I can look at any UMVC3 combo and probably imitate it in several tries, where doing multiple "just frames"(Fucking Lars and his useless Triple Barrel applications) consecutively almost seems impossible.

Also, KoF is by far one of the most difficult to combo games out there. Do you understand how fucking irksome it is to learn how to perform a DP motion followed by a QCB then HCF motion in under 8 frames is? It's totally absurd.

Comparing Counter-Strike to Call of Duty? One is a competitive FPS legend, the other is a casual console game with built-in aim assist. This is not 'apples and oranges' at absolutely all, lol.

As a 2D player, the only 3D game I actually got interested in was Virtua Fighter. It's the one 3D series that's actually technical and interesting enough that a majority of the playerbase isn't mindlessly mashing on the buttons. I also got some respect for Tekken as I could witness some actually high-level gameplay with my own eyes. Still, Tekken is mostly marketed towards button mashing casual gamers, which conflicts with my personal point as to why I play certain 2D fighters to begin with.



It is not. I like KoF, but people that go on about the 'insanity' of KoF combos simply have never seen any 2D game with actually difficult combos. I can tell you about some of the stuff in Guilty Gear that you could try to 'imitate' and we'll see if you pull this off before 2014 hits if the KoF13 motion chaining gives you problems already.

Well there was a reason I used CoD to Counter-Strike, and it's for the reason you differentiated between Tekken from casual to competitive 2D fighters. I played CS before 1.6 came out at Internet Cafe's(which I still dearly miss at times) even now, I hate CoD.

As much as I like KoF, I can't play it competitively because the motions are far too awkward.

I'd like to think Guilty Gear combos aren't excessively difficult, it's the intensity of the game is what makes it seem difficult. The same can be said about MvC2 combos. After all doing combos is just done from muscle memory majority of the time, and most fighting games have "input" shortcuts that make them easier. Exception of Third Strike, and I'm not sure if Guilty Gear had it, I haven't played GG in a while, and I believe it's on PSN so now's a good time as any. Third Strike had strict execution rules, and no shortcuts that would bypass execution rules either.

I played Johnny, and was completely devoted to him, despite being the lowest tier character, just because even though he's low tier, doesn't mean he's not workable.

Funny that you pick 3rd strike as an example, because that game actually has shortcuts on super motions, haha. But that's not so important. 3rd strike is still decent. Kof13 has shortcuts on a lot of things, but I think those shortcuts are fine because the games still have enough other things that don't make them a complete disaster. The only game where shortcuts start becoming an issue is SF4, because that's some real stick shaking game design right there.

GG does not have any shortcuts at all. And also don't get me wrong, the difficulty or value of a game is not exclusively related to the execution, especially not that of combos. But GG does have a lot of retarded stuff like that, for example have you ever heard about Johnny enkasu loops? Just the fact that a game has this on top of everything else is a beautiful thing.

It shows that there has to be a certain level of dedication to the game and its characters instead of picking the game up and working out a killing combo in 5 minutes like the average player does in MvC3. That is kind of the fighting game genre's thing, the entire deal about the relationship between the player and the character they're playing, and a lot of modern games are so homogenized that this value gets completely lost.

I didn't realize there was a fighting game scene inside of Fakku, I may have to take some of you up on a few games when I get decent net again :D

ontopic: I personally don't have a preference, I haven't really played fighting games to learn them until recently, everything before then was pushing buttons and watching stuff happen (i know I know, terrible..). I have to say though, you can't blanket all 2d fighters and 3d fighters in the same category, from what I've tried, there's a lot of variety to be had in each respective dimension.

Wait super-shortcuts really? Unless you mean you can do a Hadoken, and using that first QCF motion from the hado into 1 more to cancel a super, than yeah, that counts as a shortcut I suppose. I was thinking more along the lines of utility and mechanical wise, for instance, if you dash and hold forward than input d, df+P, to get a DP it won't come out, you actually have to input a third forward motion after the dash animation.

But yeah you're right, KoF has alot of short-cuts,(Kyo for example) Dp+P, Qcb~Hcf+P can be input the same way as Hcb~f+P, Qcf+P.

SF4 has some really stupid and obscene shortcuts. No disagreement there. I've seen some really annoying ways people buffer some anti-airs because of it.




I actually do remember this tech, using the first hit of his Enkasu to cause something similar to a 'hard-knockdown' to provide a mist-cancel set-up/mix-up sort of thing. Looping it, I've never seen.



Even so, creativity and dedication goes a long way. MarlinPie is probably a good example of that. By far, one of the only and best C.Viper players in UMvC3, and easily one of the most creative combo makers with Doom TACs. But I still agree with you, fighting games are slowly becoming generic. What do fighting games have? P1 and P2, stamina, "motion" skills, and probably the most eye-catching and attractive, super-moves etc, etc. Soul Calibur 5 followed suit this time around and it became very popular as a result.

Most of the modern generation fighting game players are either 09ers that joined the SFIV fanclub, or found out about EVO from some Subreddit forum. So I doubt this'll be the last we see of them.