Stereotypes of blacks

[color=#2e1a6b]Thank you Biglundi, your reply is a perfect example of how much the media has distorted this case. All the falsehoods you stated perfectly show how biased the media is.

You said that Trayvon "looked like a regular kid". Sorry, but those pictures the media showed were from when Trayvon was 12. Trayvon was not at all a kid; he was old enough to have THC traces.

you said that Zimmerman "was told to leave him alone" even though this never happened. The 911 operator only said "we don't need you to [follow him]".

Twice, you said that he shot him because he "felt" he was dangerous. I must admit, your ignorance is astounding. Zimmerman shot him because Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, beating on him.

"HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT"... huh? Zimmerman was detained and questioned for 5 hours, and after the police report confirmed innocence, they released him.


What Lishy was saying is that the media is Glorifying Trayvon because it will start a race war. Lishy then pointed out that the media doesn't glorify someone shot by cops because that will not start a race war, but discredit governmental security

So the media is bias towards the position that Trayvon wasn't all that suspicious? Or...could it possibly be that he wasn't all that suspicious?



Sources please? For both claims?



Yes. There's ALSO the fact that he was the appointed "neighborhood watchman" And, if you know the handbook for making a neighborhood watch, you'd know that it states the Neighborhood watch is supposed to OBSERVE. Confrontation is strictly prohibited, as is the carrying of firearms.



Source? The fact of the matter is that there is a confirmed witness to the event via a phone cal made to Martin's girlfriend, who said that he expressed concerns that someone was following him. She told him to run away, instead he asked, "Why are you following me?" and someone else asking, "What are you doing here?" Followed by scuffling noises and the phone dieing. It seems to ME that Zimmerman approached Martin, and tried to restrain him. If Martin hurt him at all, it was in self defense, and in response to Martin resisting, Zimmerman shot him, instead of doing what he should have done, and run the fuck away. Or, as he should have done in the first place, NOT FOLLOWED HIM, or gotten out of his car.

Do you have any evidence AGAINST that?

Sure, MArtin may have started beating on the guy...after the altercation began and was initiated by Zimmerman being an irresponsible douchebag. And witnesses say they saw Martin indeed beating on him. HOWEVER, there is suficient reason to believe Zimmerman initiated, and AFTERWARDS, after Martin was shot, Zimmerman was seen straddling him on the ground by two witnesses.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/neighbor-trayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense/

But of course you'll just brush this off as "the media's spin". I can already predict it. There is NO evidence that the media can present to change your mind because you'll simply disbelieve them just because the media says it. And that's a pathetic reason to not believe something. It's similar to a conspiracy theorist saying he doesn't believe the official story of an event simply because, "It's the official story".



Based on nothing more than a loose and vague interpretation of the "stand your ground" laws, and the fact that there were no eye witnesses to confirm that he was in fact guilty. Because the only other person who saw...he killed.




Here's the thing. I agree that the media has inconsistency when it comes to covering stories, however please don't tell me that the media is bad for covering this story. I think they need to cover stories like this more OFTEN. I think they need to point out when police officers do these things, I think they need to point out when regular people do these things, I think murders at ALL should be covered in detail by the media.

Know why? That's their job.

What you need to do Lelouch, in the future, is look at ALL the evidence, not just a couple things. You can't listen to only one witness saying he saw Trayvon hitting Zimmerman and conclude soley from that that it was a justified self defense shooting. If there's other evidence out there that contradicts the image that puts in your head...you don't get to ignore it.

Also, what the fuck was that about him being old enough to have THC marks? Are you saying he smoked weed? Do you have evidence of that? Or are you just saying, "He's an older black kid wearing a hoodie. Probably did drugs too" like an ignoramous?

Yep, a lot of bias that someone even modified a 911 call in favor of Trayvon.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-04-06/news/31301906_1_nbc-news-editing-internal-investigation

Just look at the difference in the pictures:

http://gossiponthis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon-martin-gold-teeth.jpg

The second link doesn't work. Can you give me the source for the picture? Instead of a website that's suspiciously called "gossiponthis"? Doesn't seem like a reputable source to me.

Also, I'm aware of the first link. I didn't give any of NBC's stuff. I gave CNN's stuff.

Mind giving a counter to the rest of the evidence presented? Like the witnesses that said they saw Zimmerman on top of Travyvon after the shooting? Like the phone call from his girlfriend who confirmed the story? Like the fact that as a neighborhood watch affiliate he's not SUPPOSED to carry a gun, nor confront the people he calls the cops on?

As far as the photo goes, here, I'll help you out. If it's the one I think you mean, with his pants down, grilled out flicking off the camera, Snopes has a nice article debunking it.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp

Please stay on topic, this is not a topic regarding the death of Trayvon. If you want to debate the death of Trayvon then make you own thread.

[color=#2e1a6b]Before you respond any further, please do some reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin


[color=#2e1a6b]They're biased towards the position that George Zimmerman is guilty. They're doing everything they can to make it look like Zimmerman murdered Trayvon not out of self defense, but out of race discrimination.


[color=#2e1a6b]Wow, I found a source that proves both at once
http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/18/traces-of-marijuana-found-in-trayvon-martins-body-does-it-matter-2/
(The picture they show is from when Trayvon was 12)


[color=#2e1a6b]He had a license for his firearm.


[color=#2e1a6b]If the media wasn't biased, you wouldn't have to ask for a source for such a key element to the case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDBqvEauYU



[color=#2e1a6b]Way too many pronouns to understand what you said. Can you please post the source where you got this dialog from.



[color=#2e1a6b]Your making an affirmative claim with no evidence, and asking me to cite evidence against it? -____-

Well, Zimmerman has a clean record, but Trayvon was suspended from school because of Pot and graffiti. Zimmerman's description of Trayvon before the conflict shows that Trayvon probably initiated it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk#t=0m46s to 1:30.



[color=#2e1a6b]There's no evidence on who initiated the conflict. Please stop acting like you have evidence.


[color=#2e1a6b]Um... you agree with this? then why the hell did you ask for a source earlier?



[color=#2e1a6b]This was after Martin was already dead, so why is this relevant? If Martin wasn't dead yet, then this is a reasonable means to restrain him until he dies.



[color=#2e1a6b]I don't disbelieve something just because the media says so. I've never heard of anyone who disbelieves something on the basis that the media said so.

Most people (like you) are guilty of the exact opposite; they believe something just because the media tells them to.



[color=#2e1a6b]copy/paste from above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDBqvEauYU



[color=#2e1a6b]The media is not bad for covering this story. It's the way they covered this story. They didn't expose the eyewitness of before the shot, they didn't expose the police report, and instead they showed altered phone calls and 12 year-old pictures.

What Lishy and I our saying, is that there is a major inbalance of exposure of this case, and exposure of cop vs citizen cases.


[color=#2e1a6b]This is really hilarious coming from you. Here, Post links to all the evidence I supposedly ignored right here:



[color=#2e1a6b]He had traces of it after he died
http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/18/traces-of-marijuana-found-in-trayvon-martins-body-does-it-matter-2/

He was even suspended from school for marijuana

It's rather upsetting that people in this thread (and its title) continue to refer to the entire population of dark-skinned people as simply "blackS".

Black is a color, not a person, and not an actual ethnicity.

It's akin to calling someone "a Chinese"; they're a Chinese PERSON.

I always wondered why do we call the African-American community "African-American" and not just American? I also have wondered and I hope someone can answer, do people in foreign countries call people of African decent "African-*Blank*" like Germans who are black are they called "African-Germans" or just "Germans"?

A lot of people refer to anyone with light skin as whites. Why isn't that pointed out? The right terms should be Anglo-Saxon or Scandinavian for example. There are even light Mexicans that look just like an American or British.

Caucasian person/people is the term.

That (as opposed to "whites/white people"), and if one must, "person/people of color" has become the correct/embraced term these days in most respectable circles. At least in my academic and gender/race issues studies.

The terms "black" is always referred as "Afro-America", why? we have black chinese people, we have black melayu people, we have black mongolian, black arabian, so what's the point eh? (some of it wasn't black but brownish)

do "white" and "black" always have a big gap? it's like "white" people doing this and that, and "black" people doing this and that, Stereotype is totally bullshit, we can't judge people blindly like heretic idiot.. at least some respect of how they living their way, so "black" people act like gangster so what eh? also Italian were being stereotyped as Mafias, so what eh? does it bother you?

Been there, done that. That's where I got a lot of the evidence you said I don't have. Including the girl;friend's phone call and witness testimony which gives sufficient evidence to state that Zimmerman was the aggressor.



Actually no, they're making it look like, through evidence, that Zimmerman is an unstable individual that, as a result of his aggressive attitudes, ended up doing something that bit him in the ass.



So the media's trying to make Trayvon look innocent while saying they found marijuana on him? That makes total sense.

Anyhow, all that shows is them using an undated(and they admit that up front) picture of Trayvon. When I wish t see the toxicology report they cite, guess what? They don't have one. Isn't that interesting? And when they have a link to more details on the story, it's just another story that repeats the same thing on a different website...that cites the article you already linked to me.

Something tells me these guys have been fed some info, if they can't even show an official report.



Which according to any Neighborhood Watch handbook, he's not supposed to carry.



The reason I later on said that I saw witnesses attest to the fact that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman is because after responding to you I decided to do further research. However UNLIKE you I didn't ignore all the evidence that went against my position(like ignoring the other witnesses on Trayvon's side and the girlfriend's phone call). However the media isn't bias because I didn't know about that immediately, because how do YOU know about it? The media.



It's in the wiki article you told me I need to read from. Something tells me you either didn't read it, or as I suspected earlier, you ignore all the evidence not on your side.



Trayvon has no criminal record, Zimmerman has no 'clean record' as you state. Also, that particular. Plus, I really have to ask you if you listen to your whole source. 1:55 has the officer asking if Zimmerman is following Trayvon, to which Zimmerman goes, "Yeah." And The officer says, "Ok, we don't need you to do that." And after George gives his name, he declares, "He ran!"

Yup. Totally sounds like Trayvon's trying to pick a fight with him.



If you had read the entire wiki article that you declared I'm ignorant of, you'd know that there is sufficient evidence to say that.

[color=#2e1a6b]This was after Martin was already dead, so why is this relevant? If Martin wasn't dead yet, then this is a reasonable means to restrain him until he dies.[/quote]

Ok, so it shows that Zimmerman was being aggressive to Martin and after shooting him, desired to restrain him...and you don't think this is evidence of Zimmerman's position as an aggressor?



Not. Not only do I not include any of the NBC phone call which was changed to make Trayvon's side look stronger, nor include the CNN transcript of the phone call where it mistakenly has Zimmerman saying racist remarks. I included only the verifiable facts, that YOU accept from verifiable and reliable sources, yet don't know about because you have no interest in seeing if you're wrong or not.



As I said, the only person who saw the event Zimmerman killed. Everyone else who claims to have saw things never saw the beginning, didn't see who initiated what, they simply saw the altercation in the MIDDLE of the altercation. The only person that heard what happened prior to the fighting was Trayvon's girlfriend, who says that according to what Trayvon was telling her and what she heard, Zimmerman approached Trayvon and asked what he was doing there before scuffling noises were heard and the phone shut off.



To which I say the solution is to cover MORE. Also, don't act like an altered phone call and 12 year old pictures were all the media did. The reason you know as much as you do on the side of Zimmerman is through the media. The altered call was SOLELY NBC(And you even sourced that very same altered call in a youtube video) and the 12 year old pictures were a result of the family's choice in photos, not the media's. And besides, no modern day picture of Trayvon has surface of him looking ultra thuggish or whatever. And, I might add, it wouldn't matter if they DID, because that doesn't justify Zimmerman confronting him.

[color=#2e1a6b]This is really hilarious coming from you. Here, Post links to all the evidence I supposedly ignored right here:
[/quote]

I don't have to. As I pointed out the information and sources are WITHIN your very own sources. It's not my fault you don't read the whole damned thing and ignore information that goes against your position.


Well at the very least there's evidence that he, or at least people he associated with experimented with marijuana. Of course, as the story points out, even if he did, it wouldn't matter at all. Yet again you demonstrate not reading the entire story of the matter, and not paying attention to your whole sources, or even being somewhat skeptical of any source which agrees with you. IF you're going to be a skeptic, keep it consistent. You can't say, "I don't believe CNN or NBC or ABC necessarily until I get further evidence" yet when non mainstream media feeds you a story you gobble it up and go, "Right there! Evidence!" If a story says a toxicology report says Trayvon had THC in his system, LOOK for the report, don't just take the story's word for it. And if their link is to another website that in turn links right back to them...that's suspicious.

Since this is going to be my last post on the matter, as it's...completely off topic from the original topic let me lay out what the evidence seems to point to, as YOU'VE linked.

While visiting with his father his father's fiance', Trayvon decided to go on a walk to get something to eat and drink. So he went to a 7-11 and bought a bag of skittles and an Arizona Iced Tea. During this walk he received a phone call from his girlfriend, and began chatting with her. Meanwhile Zimmerman saw Trayvon and noticed that Trayvon wasn't a usual member of the gated community. Since there have been reports of break ins he decided that this was suspicious enough to call the police. Trayvon was out of sight after the phone call, so he, being a neighborhood watchman that felt it was his responsibility, continued to follow him. Zimmerman was a known aggressive person, which is explained by his sole volunteering for the neighborhood watch where nobody else would, calling the cops on several other occasions, catching a thief before, and desiring to be a police officer. This would lead him to not back off when Trayvon turned and asked him why he was following him. Zimmerman instead asked what he was doing there and advanced on him, possibly placed a hand on Trayvon to make sure he stopped moving. After all, the whole reason he followed Trayvon in the first place as he made clear in his phone call was so that he could give an exact location for the police officers to find him. Trayvon, not appreciating some strange older man following him, advancing on him and placing a hand on him, retaliated violently, knocking Zimmerman to the ground and beating on him. Zimmerman, after screaming for help a few times, panicked and shot Trayvon in the chest.

There you go. That sound like an accurate detail of events as the evidence points to it?

Actually, what I'm saying is people are talking as if Trayvon is some hero, just because he was black!

The fact is Zimmerman was the aggressor. But that's irrelevant to what I'm trying to say here.

We should acknowledge he was wrongfully assaulted, but why are we acting as if he is a hero and wearing hoodies in his 'honor'!?

I'm pretty sure Boondocks season 1 episode 2 dealt with something similar to this...

I've been hearing 'white' so much from the news, I forgot that Caucasian was the right term, thanks for the correction. Either way, the double standard has been used a lot against Caucasians, it just seems "odd" to me.





You can make theories and give a fictional explanation, but it still doesn't help or do anything. Anyway, turns out the witnesses changed their story about the events.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-witnesses-change-stories-ahead-zimmerman-133743219.html

[color=#2e1a6b]Okay, you've shown improvement on your knowledge of the case:

Seriously? Even though that's the explanation that is backed up by the evidence it's a fictional explanation?



None of which were the sourced of information I used to construct that explanation using evidence.

So...what's your point?

Regardless of what we know, either because of the news or other means of information, there's still A LOT more than what is known right now.

If I remember it right, the pre-trial hearing's coming up, and the judge in that hearing can dismiss all charges if he/she feels the State won't meet its Burden of Proof.

Yeah, there's good circumstantial evidence the prosecutors have, but that type of evidence is always a gamble in any trial.

As for the witnesses changing and/or recanting, any lawyer worth his/her salt can still use something like that to their advantage.

All we can do is sit back and watch.

This is not a debate on the Trayvon murder. If you want to debate then make your own topic, but please stay on topic.

[size=12]Well me personally, being black, I have always been mocked, taunted, and made fun of for not being your "stereotypical" black. I lived right around the corner from the projects in Philly but when to catholic school most of my life. I tried to fit in and be like what everyone told me I should be like as young black kid until, after speaking with my grandfather, and getting some inspiration from some comic book heroes I used to read (which BTW was one of the things I got made fun of for; reading comic books and drawing them, etc.) I came to the conclusion I would be proud to be different. Since then and my first break away from rap, which was actually great back in the 90s which is a different story altogether, and my first alternative/rock album in the form of Stone Temple Pilots and the first Crow Soundtrack I haven't looked back. My motto for years and years has been "Exception To The Rule" which is why I pride myself on being.

However, I will admit, I like to take advantage of stereotypes when I can. For example, I still get turned on by the fact some females are attracted to me just because I'm black. I'm not "Hood" black but let's keep it real, every black man has some Nigga in him. Piss him off and it usually comes out. I joked with my friends it's kinda like the old school Power Rangers when they morphed. Whether you're Black, Irish, Italian, whatever. If someone pisses you off you can definitely "Morph" and tap into that inner culture and show it.

Sadly though, and oddly, my primary persecutors were black women as a kid so I am not physically attracted to them as an adult which is why I am with a Latina. I used to be into white women but I've found that despite it being downplayed racism is alive and well in alot of white families and I just had my fill of running up against it. Far as I'm concerned, black people are there own worse enemy in alot of ways. The biggest one is that instead of supporting each other and strengthening our community all we do is cut each other down and hate on whoever is successful. And the ones that are successful get out of and never help anyone less fortunate become something even though they were blessed enough to. The women, at least in my experience, praise and adore the black guys who treat them like crap and aren't really interested in guys like me who might be, in their eyes, a nerd or geek or whatever. That typical playa or thug or roughneck or whatever they bitch and complain about is what they always settle for and the few nice guys they laugh at, mock, and abuse. So I have no sympathy at all for most, keeping in mind there are exceptions.

In closing, I only wish the myth of the black man's penis being massive was true for me. I am average sized, husky, a comic book and professional wrestling diehard loyalist, that for most of his life has had most of his adult intimacy through cybersex. Eventually I found the mother of my child but it took a long time. That being said...I am NOT your average black guy. And yes that is NOT easy by any stretch of the imagination but that is what I thrive on and it makes me feel some kind of unique purpose and it's awesome when I find people who appreciate me more for it.[/h]