Lolicon.
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Nikon
FAKKU Old Guard
This is a hot topic here right now, and it shouldn't be ignored any longer. It needs to be addressed and I want to hear your thoughts on this (hence me posting this thread). This isn't about whether the staff thinks it's right or wrong, it's more a matter of... well, law.
Neither Whorley's, nor any other conviction under this law has been reviewed by the Supreme Court.
In February 2006, Senator John McCain introduced S.519, which would add a mandatory 10-year sentence in jail to anyone who uses the Internet to violate the PROTECT Act.
This isn't being posted to change anyone's mind. It's being posted for open discussion. Discuss.
Wikipedia wrote...
On 30 April 2003, President George W. Bush signed into law the PROTECT Act of 2003 (also dubbed the Amber Alert Law) which again criminalizes cartoon child pornography. The Act introduced 18 U.S.C. 1466A which criminalizes both Miller Test obscene cartoon depictions of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct, and, as noted by the 11th Circuit in United States v. Williams, cartoon depictions of a minor or what appears to be a minor engaging in overt sexual intercourse (not merely sexually explicit) and need satisify only the third part of the Miller Test, that it lack serious artistic value.Wikipedia wrote...
In December 2005, Dwight Whorley was convicted[24] under 18 U.S.C. 1466A(a)(1) on twenty counts for receiving "...obscene Japanese anime cartoons that graphically depicted prepubescent female children being forced to engage in genital-genital and oral-genital intercourse with adult males." Whorley was also convicted under 18 U.S.C. 2252(a)(2) on fourteen accounts for receiving "...digital photographs of actual children engaging in sexually explicit conduct." Whorley was on parole for earlier sex crimes at the time of the violations, although these convictions were independent of Whorley's violation of the terms of his parole. The same FOIA-requested November 2006 United States Attorney's Bulletin describing the details of the conviction, concludes by suggesting that the precedent set by the Whorley case be used as a basis for future prosecutions of possession of such obscene cartoons. It is worth noting that Whorley's charges were coupled with charges for possession of conventional child pornography and that he was on parole at the time making the legal possibility of appealing the charges far less feasible and far less attractive to civil rights groups, such as the ACLU.Neither Whorley's, nor any other conviction under this law has been reviewed by the Supreme Court.
In February 2006, Senator John McCain introduced S.519, which would add a mandatory 10-year sentence in jail to anyone who uses the Internet to violate the PROTECT Act.
This isn't being posted to change anyone's mind. It's being posted for open discussion. Discuss.
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Sucks to be you... I live in Aus so i don't know about mine except it is like a huge fine and 5 years i think it is...
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... I don't really understand the point of the discussion, but lolicon in general has no set age group. The thing about doujins though, is that while the characters are obviously humans, girls normally have big eyes, small nose, etc. to bring out the innocence of the character. The odd thing about manga is that it seems try to make the pictures as realistic as can be, so an 8 yr. old girl, may actually look like an 8 yr. old girl. This is what one may want to "look out for", if you will.
But, it's a drawing, and this guy from the wiki. article was caught with child-pornography. Or rather, he was caught downloading on his parole at an employment building "20 Japanese anime cartoons," No Idea what that actually meant. He was also found downloading 14 ACTUAL child-pornography pictures, as well as "viewing and receiving" 20 emails describing parents molesting their children. Lolicon in itself is a form of Art; Porn yes, but Art. Child-pornography though is wrong and as such he should of been sentenced anyway, and adding to the fact he was on parole from another child-pornography crime, protesters against banning drawn lolicon would not even have a reason to look at this guy.
And finally the Miller test. Who ever made that should be shot. It is a test that is used, I believe stately, but could differ from even city to city, and is vague in it's terms at best, as well as the fact that one could call nearly any piece of art work obscene, and there are those that could counter-attack that for anything, even perhaps guro. The Miller test in my eyes is just a sneaky way of bypassing the 1st amendment.
Than there's the whole internet thing with it. Limitation of the internet is not going to help anyone...
.... how the hell did I write so much? :shock:
But, it's a drawing, and this guy from the wiki. article was caught with child-pornography. Or rather, he was caught downloading on his parole at an employment building "20 Japanese anime cartoons," No Idea what that actually meant. He was also found downloading 14 ACTUAL child-pornography pictures, as well as "viewing and receiving" 20 emails describing parents molesting their children. Lolicon in itself is a form of Art; Porn yes, but Art. Child-pornography though is wrong and as such he should of been sentenced anyway, and adding to the fact he was on parole from another child-pornography crime, protesters against banning drawn lolicon would not even have a reason to look at this guy.
And finally the Miller test. Who ever made that should be shot. It is a test that is used, I believe stately, but could differ from even city to city, and is vague in it's terms at best, as well as the fact that one could call nearly any piece of art work obscene, and there are those that could counter-attack that for anything, even perhaps guro. The Miller test in my eyes is just a sneaky way of bypassing the 1st amendment.
Than there's the whole internet thing with it. Limitation of the internet is not going to help anyone...
.... how the hell did I write so much? :shock:
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The miller test is indeed a stupid way to decide if something is obscene or not. It changes in every city, every district, country, etc and you can not have a standard with it at all.
As for the guy, he had real child porn with him, they just added in the hentai as extra charges to keep him longer.
As for the guy, he had real child porn with him, they just added in the hentai as extra charges to keep him longer.
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Nikon
FAKKU Old Guard
You do make some valid points. I am not a fan of lolicon at all, and I can see how it looks like they don't know what they're talking about. The fact remains though, hat the PROTECT Act makes such things illegal. Now, it's obvious that it's not being enforced heavily (I mean, look at the internets. Filled with the stuff) but if it were, any site with lolicon would be taken down, with the owner fined/arrested/whatever. And then there's S.519 which has a good chance of being passed this year or next.
I'm not bringing this all up because of the illegality of it, but also because of any morals people may or may not have for/against lolicon. In my eyes, it's child porn made cartoon and I personally find it disgusting and wrong. I know other people feel the same and I know that other people feel different about it. And I also know that many countries have laws against child pornography (not necessarily including lolicon, but that could change) and I wouldn't want to see someone getting busted for that because of FAKKU.
I'm not saying this is any more/less important than other illegal issues, but it certainly stands out from the rest.
I'm not bringing this all up because of the illegality of it, but also because of any morals people may or may not have for/against lolicon. In my eyes, it's child porn made cartoon and I personally find it disgusting and wrong. I know other people feel the same and I know that other people feel different about it. And I also know that many countries have laws against child pornography (not necessarily including lolicon, but that could change) and I wouldn't want to see someone getting busted for that because of FAKKU.
I'm not saying this is any more/less important than other illegal issues, but it certainly stands out from the rest.
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If these laws make it so that any form of loli hentai is banned from sites and those that have it or distribute it are fined or imprissioned then i say get rid of it. it is just another way of making child pornography and i don't see how that relates to hentai at all. doushins and hentais are suposed to be art about other arts like bleach or naruto or something someone made up.
It isn't suposed to be just a random pornographic comic about a child and a man. Even in the case where an anime has small children characters in it. It should stay away from anything like hentai.in most cases anyway. its hard to narrow it down as what should and shouldn't be hentai. like a picture of teen titans raven nude? good or bad? but then if thats good whats bad? or if thats bad then whats good? porn is for adults i know that and it makes sense to put only adults in it. weither its real or a cartoon girl drawn nude. to proect any kind of hentai site from being taken down i sugest they remove anything that would resemble lolicon from their main site.
Even tho i don't think its right for there to be any kind of hentai or porn about that kind of thing involving anyone under 18, if the person wants to see that or post it they should keep it in secrecy and put it on another site and not their main one. so that people with an interest in it can still see it. plus they can be tracked then so we know who likes loli porn and who doesn't. :D easier to catch any real criminals then, but still safe for anyone who likes a good loli doushin or hentai pic of their favorite younger anime character. just my opinion though
It isn't suposed to be just a random pornographic comic about a child and a man. Even in the case where an anime has small children characters in it. It should stay away from anything like hentai.in most cases anyway. its hard to narrow it down as what should and shouldn't be hentai. like a picture of teen titans raven nude? good or bad? but then if thats good whats bad? or if thats bad then whats good? porn is for adults i know that and it makes sense to put only adults in it. weither its real or a cartoon girl drawn nude. to proect any kind of hentai site from being taken down i sugest they remove anything that would resemble lolicon from their main site.
Even tho i don't think its right for there to be any kind of hentai or porn about that kind of thing involving anyone under 18, if the person wants to see that or post it they should keep it in secrecy and put it on another site and not their main one. so that people with an interest in it can still see it. plus they can be tracked then so we know who likes loli porn and who doesn't. :D easier to catch any real criminals then, but still safe for anyone who likes a good loli doushin or hentai pic of their favorite younger anime character. just my opinion though
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this is a delicate matter. If Bush keeps making laws to allow him to make any more loop holes in all of the ammendmants then basically most if not all hentai sites will be asked to be removed under penalty of law and that would suck @$$. The miller test is also unfair I mean Art also counts as freedom of speech in a waywe should be allowed to express ourself bye any sane means and that includes hentai. I personally dont mind loli but the sick degenerate pedofiles out there that enjoy real child porn are the ones that should be punished not people who look at CARTOON porn. Also the real crime here is that america voted in bush twice hehe.
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Realistic drawn child pornography is the bad thing, but as it is realistic, it has artistic value.
So the Miller test can't get the drawings that actually count.
And that kind of drawings compared with huge eyed, small/no nosed anime girls, is what Pedo's would want or could fuel them, which is the creator's of the Act's mindset.
So the Miller test can't get the drawings that actually count.
And that kind of drawings compared with huge eyed, small/no nosed anime girls, is what Pedo's would want or could fuel them, which is the creator's of the Act's mindset.
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plus they can be tracked then so we know who likes loli porn and who doesn't. Very Happy easier to catch any real criminals then, but still safe for anyone who likes a good loli doushin or hentai pic of their favorite younger anime character. just my opinion though
Godsmainmanjk, I don't really agree with the two points here, mostly because you're agree with censoring (Hey, your personal stance, but my response) and also supporting the censored materials. How can anyone at the age of 18 or above knowingly find entertainment from any form of minor-adult couplings, fictional, stylized or abstracted? If you (Not you,, but anyone in general) seek that kind of work out, actually seek it out and perspire to produce it right there in front of you, then there's something borderline immoral there. However, if you create it on your own and it is entirely a work of fiction - no likenesses to any real individuals - I think copyright should protect you, somehow. Essentially, I don't agree with most things in Hentai, because they over shoot mere deviancy (Found in the most extreme live action pornography, but on legal standards) and fantasy, in this case we have lolita complexes as an example. Simply because it's not as frowned upon in another country, such as Japan, doesn't make it legal elsewhere.
I.E: Import cars. If a Japanese model or make of car doesn't meet U.S safety regulations- it will not be permitted to ship into the United States.
Grossly exaggerated example: If a person is a sex offender(sex with a 16 year old) in the United States, he would not be able to gain a Visa in Japan or the U.K.
I'm British, so heck, I can't really comment on U.S law save for just a spectator's observation.
Godsmainmanjk, I don't really agree with the two points here, mostly because you're agree with censoring (Hey, your personal stance, but my response) and also supporting the censored materials. How can anyone at the age of 18 or above knowingly find entertainment from any form of minor-adult couplings, fictional, stylized or abstracted? If you (Not you,, but anyone in general) seek that kind of work out, actually seek it out and perspire to produce it right there in front of you, then there's something borderline immoral there. However, if you create it on your own and it is entirely a work of fiction - no likenesses to any real individuals - I think copyright should protect you, somehow. Essentially, I don't agree with most things in Hentai, because they over shoot mere deviancy (Found in the most extreme live action pornography, but on legal standards) and fantasy, in this case we have lolita complexes as an example. Simply because it's not as frowned upon in another country, such as Japan, doesn't make it legal elsewhere.
I.E: Import cars. If a Japanese model or make of car doesn't meet U.S safety regulations- it will not be permitted to ship into the United States.
Grossly exaggerated example: If a person is a sex offender(sex with a 16 year old) in the United States, he would not be able to gain a Visa in Japan or the U.K.
I'm British, so heck, I can't really comment on U.S law save for just a spectator's observation.
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I'm replying to this thread too much, but for me, an U.S. citizen, it is the principle of the thing that the 1st amendment is being bypassed, and that that is probably the real reason it exists. Here's a quote:
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will give my life to defend your right to say it."
This is basically what the 1st amendment means to me. Besides, "local community"? There are ALOT of different places and people in the U.S., so it's just wrong on so many levels that the "local" community gets to decide upon it. And this Miller's test could just be the beginning until the 1st amendment doesn't truly exist anymore.
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will give my life to defend your right to say it."
This is basically what the 1st amendment means to me. Besides, "local community"? There are ALOT of different places and people in the U.S., so it's just wrong on so many levels that the "local" community gets to decide upon it. And this Miller's test could just be the beginning until the 1st amendment doesn't truly exist anymore.
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Nikon
FAKKU Old Guard
You're right about the first amendment, but it doesn't change what's going on already. I personally don't know if not complying is worth the risk of getting shut down, in the end.
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I personally enjoy lolicon and see nothing wrong with it because in a doujin, it is not real.
The same way as killing someone on a computer game is not real but if it was done in real life then you'd be in trouble.
The same way as killing someone on a computer game is not real but if it was done in real life then you'd be in trouble.
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What makes a lolicon, well, lolicon?
For all we know, we can include a read me saying all characters portrayed in the manga/doujin are over the age of 18.
And it will probably make a difference. I remember reading something in the HentaiPalm forums quite a while back regarding incestuous doujins. Most of his doujins got through Canadian check-up but his laptop was confiscated after a page which has "big brother" in it.
Anyways, my point is, it's these little things to makes so much difference >>
For all we know, we can include a read me saying all characters portrayed in the manga/doujin are over the age of 18.
And it will probably make a difference. I remember reading something in the HentaiPalm forums quite a while back regarding incestuous doujins. Most of his doujins got through Canadian check-up but his laptop was confiscated after a page which has "big brother" in it.
Anyways, my point is, it's these little things to makes so much difference >>
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well i'm just glad that i live in Canada.
Practically everytime i hear about the states its seems that its turning more and more of a totalitarian state.
Practically everytime i hear about the states its seems that its turning more and more of a totalitarian state.
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![[Greed] User Avatar](https://t.fakku.net/images/avatars/63703685045f4b340d37bc.jpg)
Well im nonchalant about Lolicon. I will read it but im not a big fan of it.
I can see why they would ban somthing like this. If someone really enjoys Lolicon they might be tempted to watch real child pornography (which is one of the most disgusting things you can do) and after that they might even be tempted to perform actual pedophelia.
I'm not saying that lolicon is wrong I just think that people who really enjoy this need to realize that its not real and its somthing that should never happen in real life.
As far as posting Lolicon on FAKKU I think that this should be somthing that needs to be limited, after all there are some members that are lolicon fans.
I can see why they would ban somthing like this. If someone really enjoys Lolicon they might be tempted to watch real child pornography (which is one of the most disgusting things you can do) and after that they might even be tempted to perform actual pedophelia.
I'm not saying that lolicon is wrong I just think that people who really enjoy this need to realize that its not real and its somthing that should never happen in real life.
As far as posting Lolicon on FAKKU I think that this should be somthing that needs to be limited, after all there are some members that are lolicon fans.
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It's art...an expression of someone's imagination.
Saying that loli is illegal is like saying that what goes on in someone's mind is illegal. Facism at it's purist.
That said, if you want to make sure that there's no loli on the site for fear of legal issues, go ahead.
Saying that loli is illegal is like saying that what goes on in someone's mind is illegal. Facism at it's purist.
That said, if you want to make sure that there's no loli on the site for fear of legal issues, go ahead.
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Nikon
FAKKU Old Guard
If that's the case, then there's also the issue of when it's loli and when it's not. A lot of time time in Doujinshi you have the 16-year-old chicks. Is that loli? I know that's underage, but is that something one would consider lolicon or would, say, under the age of 14 or 15 be loli? That's the tricky part.
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In some hentai sites/forums, I think they're also trying to steer away from "rape" now, ages aside.
First loli, now rape. Seriously, why not ban hentai altogether >>"
If the above came out wrong, let me clarify that I wasn't trying to attack anyone here XD I'm just saying ...
First loli, now rape. Seriously, why not ban hentai altogether >>"
If the above came out wrong, let me clarify that I wasn't trying to attack anyone here XD I'm just saying ...
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Real Child Pornography is a definate cause to go to jail. that i think is obvious. but hentai that features underaged girls, isnt child pornography. it isnt forcing a REAL girl to have sex.
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There's also lots of stuff that's guilty by association. For instance, parts of "Love Selection" are Lolicon, that's why the whole comic is illegal in North America. However, most of the comic generously exaggerates its depiction of young teens (the exception is chapter 8, gross).
Though if you were downloading it from Fakku, you could choose not to download chapter 8, thankfully.
Though if you were downloading it from Fakku, you could choose not to download chapter 8, thankfully.
