Give this a read, what do you think?
2
Hey everyone,
I found this article whilst doing research for an assignment. Anyway, tell me what you think about it. Is the article right? Or is it way off? Or does it simply depend on the individual, lemme know what you think! I do apologize in advance as this article is HUGE!! But all the same, its a very intriguing read.
It’s amazing that assholes can get girls. Actually, now that I think of it, it’s not that amazing. They are assholes at heart, but to meet girls they lavish their undying love. IT’S A CHARADE. They act nice, friendly, and they listen… until they get into what they’re after. Their prey thinks they are in love with them, however when they realize what assholes their predators really are, they pretend like the asshole is really nice inside. The girl tries to change the asshole into a nice guy, but assholes will always be assholes. She gets upset and goes to the nice guy to complain about the asshole. But she claims to love the asshole… now this is where the theory begins. She doesn’t want to look like she is easy so she wont dump the asshole right away, instead she will stay with the asshole. Girls are idiots. They don’t realize that the nice guy has been there all along. He never had to pretend to be a good guy to get girls because he is naturally like that. However, girls don’t see it for some reason or another. They look at the nice guy as a friend, a trusted companion to whom they can tell their sad story to about their asshole boyfriend.
But the nice guy isn’t THAT naïve. He was trying to score with the girl he listens to all along. The problem is that since he is a nice guy he keeps listening. Since girls get attached to things that pay attention to them, they think of the nice guy as a friend. A FRIEND. They don’t say, “Oh he’s hot” or “I want to have his children” about the nice guy, they just want the emotional support. When they get the emotional support from the nice guy, they don’t need it from the asshole. The nice guy gets the shit end of the stick while the asshole gets all the action. I am starting to wonder if being a nice guy is really the route to take to get action… I have been down this path for all of my post-pubescent life and it has gotten me NOWHERE… at least not in the women department.
Perhaps another reason why girls fall for the asshole is because assholes ignore the girl they are with. The women wonder, “Why isn’t he paying attention to me?” so they explore why. They poke and prod and get closer to the asshole. They start to get easier with each attempt to get closer. The asshole finally says, “I’ve let this beauty dangle long enough, time to boat this bass”. It is then he puts on his charade and the girl feels like she has won him… even thought all she has won is an asshole.
Once you have gone down the path as a nice guy or a “listener” you can’t turn back. The girl will always go after the assholes because there are always nice guys there to listen. Once you realize that you area “listener” you cant do anything about it… just pack up and close shop. There is no way you will get into her pants… ever. There is and never will be a situation where the nice guy will get the girl he has a crush on. It just doesn’t work like that. The girl wont “come to her senses” and realize what an asshole her boyfriend is like in the movies… instead she will just go after another asshole, and unless you stop being a nice guy, she will never go after you. Women complain that there are no nice guys in the world. Right. They are obviously not looking hard enough because there are nice guys EVERYWHERE!!!! Girls aren’t looking for nice guys… they say they are but they’re not. They are looking for the perfect asshole, but there is NO SUCH THING as the perfect asshole.
All in all, the nice guy gets the shaft. To all the girls out there with boyfriends that don’t treat you with respect, that don’t listen to you, and that don’t care about you I say this; look next to you. The guy that has been standing next to you the whole time is the guy you have been looking for. He is what you want your asshole to be like. He knows more about you than you know about yourself… because he has listened to it all.
And in closing... Fuck you.
Allow me now to add my own thoughts to Garrett Hols informative rant and lets take a closer look at the asshole appeal for women now. A wise man once said, "As a man, you have to die once in order to live." While this may in truth not be what was meant, one can use this saying to best understand the relationship with Nice guys and assholes, and of course at the center of it all women.
It is a widely known fact that women habitually date men that are jerks or assholes while the "nice" guys are often left twiddling their thumbs in solitude. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Figuratively speaking, in order for a man to enjoy the company of women and be able to seduce them, his inner nice guy must first die through heartache. It is at this point that his inner Jerk/asshole/bad boy/whathaveyou surfaces and goes on the prowl.
Any man that has experienced love, only to have his heart crushed by the woman that he thought he would spend his life with, will understand what I am talking about. A man that has never experienced the heartache of being burned by the one person he really trusted probably won't understand my commentary. In any case, I am well experienced at this and unfortunately will probably never take my own bitter advice, but allow me to continue. it is important to understand why nice guys finish last and why they probably always will.
Contrary to what most women think, there are men interested in successful relationships. Most men will never pass up the chance to date the woman of their dreams. In fact, when a man does encounter this rarity of a woman, his passion gets the better of him. The thoughts that race through his mind are something along the lines of, "This woman is a keeper. I'm going to treat her right and do all I can to make her happy."
The only problem with being the nice guyis that you also become the boring, predictable guy in their fickle eyes. The excitement of the seduction process begins to fade for the woman because she has what she wants and doesn't have to do any chasing. Eventually the woman starts losing interest and before you know it, her eyes start to wander.
In the end, she'll look for a new man who will bring excitement back into her life by being the "new and improved" challenge. Pursuit and excitement usually stem from selfish attitudes, much like the bad boy who doesn't care about anyone but himself and treats women like some much trash. The nice guy will be left heart broken and will start wondering what in the world he did wrong.
It's at this point that men begin to realize that most women generally don't know what they want from us. Evidently, being the nice guy certainly doesn't help. The conclusion of the afore mentioned scenario in many cases? The death of the nice guy persona. So that's the life and death of the nice guy and, as a result, "Mr.Nice" is resurrected into "Mr.Asshole" or in some cases "Mr. Bitter", but bitterness is an unhappy role and so it is likely "Mr. Asshole" will eventually be born.
As long as nice guys continue to get burned, there will always be a healthy supply of new assholes on the horizon to provide the dose of misery that women seem to yearn for. Eventually (often quite quickly), these nice guys will realize what type of man women actually want. The result is something that snaps inside of them as they begin to mimic the assholes that most women seem to pursue incessantly. To become that kind of man, the charade must be taken to the extreme, which involves acting like a selfish person that has no regard for other people's feelings. This amounts to a jerk that will say anything to get a woman into bed, that will not respect a woman and will cross into territory that the "nice guy" will wait for invitation into. The jerk will furnish her with tons of roller coaster emotions and once he has sex with her, he'll dump her. Why? Because he feels vengeful and wants to burn women the same way he was burned or because he truly is an asshole now. Remember; once you get burned, don't STOP playing with fire -- you TAME the flame. So when women inadvertently give life to these jerks, they are really shooting themselves in the feet. That's the life and legacy of assholes everywhere. If nice guys are what women really want, then why is it that most nice guys are single? Why is it that we constantly hear stories about women dating big jerks that took them for a ride -- literally? The fact is that women generally don't want nice guys, or maybe they're too busy chasing after jerks to realize that they do. Why? Because women act on impulse and emotion rather than fact.
So what does this all add up to? No one wants to get hurt, but in the same instance, no true "nice guy" wants to be perceived as an asshole either. In other words, be nice to women, but remember who comes first in life; you, your irreplaceable family and friends, and then your woman. I say this with all sincerity, Bro's before Ho's. True friends will stick with you and if still trudge the road of the "nice guy", at least they will take you out for drinks after your heart dies a little more.
I found this article whilst doing research for an assignment. Anyway, tell me what you think about it. Is the article right? Or is it way off? Or does it simply depend on the individual, lemme know what you think! I do apologize in advance as this article is HUGE!! But all the same, its a very intriguing read.
It’s amazing that assholes can get girls. Actually, now that I think of it, it’s not that amazing. They are assholes at heart, but to meet girls they lavish their undying love. IT’S A CHARADE. They act nice, friendly, and they listen… until they get into what they’re after. Their prey thinks they are in love with them, however when they realize what assholes their predators really are, they pretend like the asshole is really nice inside. The girl tries to change the asshole into a nice guy, but assholes will always be assholes. She gets upset and goes to the nice guy to complain about the asshole. But she claims to love the asshole… now this is where the theory begins. She doesn’t want to look like she is easy so she wont dump the asshole right away, instead she will stay with the asshole. Girls are idiots. They don’t realize that the nice guy has been there all along. He never had to pretend to be a good guy to get girls because he is naturally like that. However, girls don’t see it for some reason or another. They look at the nice guy as a friend, a trusted companion to whom they can tell their sad story to about their asshole boyfriend.
But the nice guy isn’t THAT naïve. He was trying to score with the girl he listens to all along. The problem is that since he is a nice guy he keeps listening. Since girls get attached to things that pay attention to them, they think of the nice guy as a friend. A FRIEND. They don’t say, “Oh he’s hot” or “I want to have his children” about the nice guy, they just want the emotional support. When they get the emotional support from the nice guy, they don’t need it from the asshole. The nice guy gets the shit end of the stick while the asshole gets all the action. I am starting to wonder if being a nice guy is really the route to take to get action… I have been down this path for all of my post-pubescent life and it has gotten me NOWHERE… at least not in the women department.
Perhaps another reason why girls fall for the asshole is because assholes ignore the girl they are with. The women wonder, “Why isn’t he paying attention to me?” so they explore why. They poke and prod and get closer to the asshole. They start to get easier with each attempt to get closer. The asshole finally says, “I’ve let this beauty dangle long enough, time to boat this bass”. It is then he puts on his charade and the girl feels like she has won him… even thought all she has won is an asshole.
Once you have gone down the path as a nice guy or a “listener” you can’t turn back. The girl will always go after the assholes because there are always nice guys there to listen. Once you realize that you area “listener” you cant do anything about it… just pack up and close shop. There is no way you will get into her pants… ever. There is and never will be a situation where the nice guy will get the girl he has a crush on. It just doesn’t work like that. The girl wont “come to her senses” and realize what an asshole her boyfriend is like in the movies… instead she will just go after another asshole, and unless you stop being a nice guy, she will never go after you. Women complain that there are no nice guys in the world. Right. They are obviously not looking hard enough because there are nice guys EVERYWHERE!!!! Girls aren’t looking for nice guys… they say they are but they’re not. They are looking for the perfect asshole, but there is NO SUCH THING as the perfect asshole.
All in all, the nice guy gets the shaft. To all the girls out there with boyfriends that don’t treat you with respect, that don’t listen to you, and that don’t care about you I say this; look next to you. The guy that has been standing next to you the whole time is the guy you have been looking for. He is what you want your asshole to be like. He knows more about you than you know about yourself… because he has listened to it all.
And in closing... Fuck you.
Allow me now to add my own thoughts to Garrett Hols informative rant and lets take a closer look at the asshole appeal for women now. A wise man once said, "As a man, you have to die once in order to live." While this may in truth not be what was meant, one can use this saying to best understand the relationship with Nice guys and assholes, and of course at the center of it all women.
It is a widely known fact that women habitually date men that are jerks or assholes while the "nice" guys are often left twiddling their thumbs in solitude. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Figuratively speaking, in order for a man to enjoy the company of women and be able to seduce them, his inner nice guy must first die through heartache. It is at this point that his inner Jerk/asshole/bad boy/whathaveyou surfaces and goes on the prowl.
Any man that has experienced love, only to have his heart crushed by the woman that he thought he would spend his life with, will understand what I am talking about. A man that has never experienced the heartache of being burned by the one person he really trusted probably won't understand my commentary. In any case, I am well experienced at this and unfortunately will probably never take my own bitter advice, but allow me to continue. it is important to understand why nice guys finish last and why they probably always will.
Contrary to what most women think, there are men interested in successful relationships. Most men will never pass up the chance to date the woman of their dreams. In fact, when a man does encounter this rarity of a woman, his passion gets the better of him. The thoughts that race through his mind are something along the lines of, "This woman is a keeper. I'm going to treat her right and do all I can to make her happy."
The only problem with being the nice guyis that you also become the boring, predictable guy in their fickle eyes. The excitement of the seduction process begins to fade for the woman because she has what she wants and doesn't have to do any chasing. Eventually the woman starts losing interest and before you know it, her eyes start to wander.
In the end, she'll look for a new man who will bring excitement back into her life by being the "new and improved" challenge. Pursuit and excitement usually stem from selfish attitudes, much like the bad boy who doesn't care about anyone but himself and treats women like some much trash. The nice guy will be left heart broken and will start wondering what in the world he did wrong.
It's at this point that men begin to realize that most women generally don't know what they want from us. Evidently, being the nice guy certainly doesn't help. The conclusion of the afore mentioned scenario in many cases? The death of the nice guy persona. So that's the life and death of the nice guy and, as a result, "Mr.Nice" is resurrected into "Mr.Asshole" or in some cases "Mr. Bitter", but bitterness is an unhappy role and so it is likely "Mr. Asshole" will eventually be born.
As long as nice guys continue to get burned, there will always be a healthy supply of new assholes on the horizon to provide the dose of misery that women seem to yearn for. Eventually (often quite quickly), these nice guys will realize what type of man women actually want. The result is something that snaps inside of them as they begin to mimic the assholes that most women seem to pursue incessantly. To become that kind of man, the charade must be taken to the extreme, which involves acting like a selfish person that has no regard for other people's feelings. This amounts to a jerk that will say anything to get a woman into bed, that will not respect a woman and will cross into territory that the "nice guy" will wait for invitation into. The jerk will furnish her with tons of roller coaster emotions and once he has sex with her, he'll dump her. Why? Because he feels vengeful and wants to burn women the same way he was burned or because he truly is an asshole now. Remember; once you get burned, don't STOP playing with fire -- you TAME the flame. So when women inadvertently give life to these jerks, they are really shooting themselves in the feet. That's the life and legacy of assholes everywhere. If nice guys are what women really want, then why is it that most nice guys are single? Why is it that we constantly hear stories about women dating big jerks that took them for a ride -- literally? The fact is that women generally don't want nice guys, or maybe they're too busy chasing after jerks to realize that they do. Why? Because women act on impulse and emotion rather than fact.
So what does this all add up to? No one wants to get hurt, but in the same instance, no true "nice guy" wants to be perceived as an asshole either. In other words, be nice to women, but remember who comes first in life; you, your irreplaceable family and friends, and then your woman. I say this with all sincerity, Bro's before Ho's. True friends will stick with you and if still trudge the road of the "nice guy", at least they will take you out for drinks after your heart dies a little more.
0
I totally, absolutely agree. +rep you later for pointing out such an obvious truth with modern day perspective. I think the analyses of both articles are spot on, and now I know why the "nice guy" gets shafted more often than not. We often hear that women can't find the right guy, but they just don't realize that there are better men out there... the argument that men are this and that from a women's side is true, no doubt there, but I feel that that's biased simply due to the fact that most women date assholes, and these articles beautifully explains why. I do think men have a right to complain... it's no longer on the women's side of the table anymore I believe.
Damn, these articles brought out some of my bitterness...
Damn, these articles brought out some of my bitterness...
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Brittany
Director of Production
What? .... What?
I felt mildly insulted with this whole rant/article of yours.
You can't take one type of girl and judge the entire female population with that. The article itself is very narrow with very limited variables and actions that can take place.
What's the source of that article anyway?
There's a lot of reasons why girls are drawn to the 'asshole' type. And it's a type of girls, not all girls - because I for one am repulsed by assholes.
Psychological reasons of feeling like they don't deserve better - that they deserve to be neglected and mistreated.
Vain reasons of attraction towards the male and doesn't care about the actual relationship, but the way they look together in the public eye or in bed.
Money, some older women go for men who simply have money and may turn out to be a bad relationship and treat her badly. As long as she has money, why care about him?
Cornered. She lives with him, he pays the bills and supports the kids - she can't leave because she's trapped.
Attention, some girls like attention even if it's negative attention. If she has a bad boyfriend she has something to complain about and always something to talk about related to her with her friends/family.
And so on.
The problem with the 'nice guys finish last' statement is the fact that usually those guys never really tried to begin with.
They listen, and listen, and listen, and listen - then one day they grab their nuts and ask the girl out. She declines and he sulks and goes away.
If the friendship is going fine, and someone suddenly wants to make a change in it, the other person may be hesitant about it. They have to show that they can do more then be a friend and listen. Most of the guys you're talking about doesn't do that.
I want a guy whose confident in himself, I want a guy whose funny and kind. I need him to be independent and able to support at least himself. Above all I want a guy who can be my friend within the relationship.
If I have a friend who I think can fit all those categories, I more then likely would be also interested in that friend. However, if one of my male friends didn't - it would have nothing to do with the fact that he was a nice guy. If he wasn't a nice guy, I wouldn't even be friends with him. It would just be conflicting personalities that would affect a relationship.
For example, I have a male friend who I care about, and who I'll listen and talk to - we can even hang out and have fun. But we get into arguments easily due to different opinions of certain topics and maturity levels from the other side. We wouldn't be able to spend the quality time together in a relationship as we do with the time we spend with our friendship.
I also have male friends who are very lazy and would rather sit in their moms house and play video games all day versus working and supporting themselves. I'm in college now and I don't want a guy who I'll have to mother. I'm looking for a significant other, not a child.
Yea - they're great friends. Probably hilarious to be with and always fun, but does that make them responsible and a compatible partner? No.
I felt mildly insulted with this whole rant/article of yours.
You can't take one type of girl and judge the entire female population with that. The article itself is very narrow with very limited variables and actions that can take place.
What's the source of that article anyway?
There's a lot of reasons why girls are drawn to the 'asshole' type. And it's a type of girls, not all girls - because I for one am repulsed by assholes.
Psychological reasons of feeling like they don't deserve better - that they deserve to be neglected and mistreated.
Vain reasons of attraction towards the male and doesn't care about the actual relationship, but the way they look together in the public eye or in bed.
Money, some older women go for men who simply have money and may turn out to be a bad relationship and treat her badly. As long as she has money, why care about him?
Cornered. She lives with him, he pays the bills and supports the kids - she can't leave because she's trapped.
Attention, some girls like attention even if it's negative attention. If she has a bad boyfriend she has something to complain about and always something to talk about related to her with her friends/family.
And so on.
The problem with the 'nice guys finish last' statement is the fact that usually those guys never really tried to begin with.
They listen, and listen, and listen, and listen - then one day they grab their nuts and ask the girl out. She declines and he sulks and goes away.
If the friendship is going fine, and someone suddenly wants to make a change in it, the other person may be hesitant about it. They have to show that they can do more then be a friend and listen. Most of the guys you're talking about doesn't do that.
I want a guy whose confident in himself, I want a guy whose funny and kind. I need him to be independent and able to support at least himself. Above all I want a guy who can be my friend within the relationship.
If I have a friend who I think can fit all those categories, I more then likely would be also interested in that friend. However, if one of my male friends didn't - it would have nothing to do with the fact that he was a nice guy. If he wasn't a nice guy, I wouldn't even be friends with him. It would just be conflicting personalities that would affect a relationship.
For example, I have a male friend who I care about, and who I'll listen and talk to - we can even hang out and have fun. But we get into arguments easily due to different opinions of certain topics and maturity levels from the other side. We wouldn't be able to spend the quality time together in a relationship as we do with the time we spend with our friendship.
I also have male friends who are very lazy and would rather sit in their moms house and play video games all day versus working and supporting themselves. I'm in college now and I don't want a guy who I'll have to mother. I'm looking for a significant other, not a child.
Yea - they're great friends. Probably hilarious to be with and always fun, but does that make them responsible and a compatible partner? No.
0
The article was written I believe by a Garrett Hols. You raise very good points let me start by saying. But might I add that I didn't mean to offend anyone by merely posting this, secondly, I didn't write this... As much as I appreciate you offering your input, I would rather that you not put me on the firing line, as I did not write this article or have any contribution towards its creation whatsoever. It's merely an opinion out there in the wide wide world and I thought it would be worth sharing. Thank you though for you input :)
0
Tegumi
"im always cute"
I never liked the 'nice guys finish last' moniker that was always being thrown around. This self-vindication of 'I was nice you so now you must be in a relationship with me' is not nice at all, and rather selfish.
But anyway, Ziggy did a pretty thorough response.
But anyway, Ziggy did a pretty thorough response.
0
What is writed in this article is obviously from a guy point of view. And I think every "nice guy" would think exactly the same way (I admit I do). The fact is, for us, the "nice guy" : why do girl never make the first step to go from friendship to relationship ?
We misinterpret the girl's inaction and think she isn't interested in us. That's often why we don't either make the first step.
But where the interesting point is, is in a girl opinion (thanks Ziggy). Girl's are also waiting for us to move, and interpret our shy behaviour as self unconfidence and dependance. So there's less chance they'll find us attractive and won't make the first step.
So, all of this is about "nice guys" having nuts and trying to push things to the next level. Not necessarily become an asshole, just enough to finally get the girl's attention.
We misinterpret the girl's inaction and think she isn't interested in us. That's often why we don't either make the first step.
But where the interesting point is, is in a girl opinion (thanks Ziggy). Girl's are also waiting for us to move, and interpret our shy behaviour as self unconfidence and dependance. So there's less chance they'll find us attractive and won't make the first step.
So, all of this is about "nice guys" having nuts and trying to push things to the next level. Not necessarily become an asshole, just enough to finally get the girl's attention.
0
I always found the "nice guy complaining about girls digging assholes" routine hilarious. What a lovely way to shift the blame onto the girls.
If girls really were only into assholes, what's stopping you from being an asshole and have all the females in a five hundred miles radius go nuts over you? Not like it's hard to be an asshole, I can attest to that.
Oh, they do. It's just usually so that the "nice guy" is either too absorbed with wallowing in his self-inflicted misery to notice - or shies away, labeling the girl a "slut".
If girls really were only into assholes, what's stopping you from being an asshole and have all the females in a five hundred miles radius go nuts over you? Not like it's hard to be an asshole, I can attest to that.
why do girl never make the first step
Oh, they do. It's just usually so that the "nice guy" is either too absorbed with wallowing in his self-inflicted misery to notice - or shies away, labeling the girl a "slut".
0
ZiggyOtaku wrote...
The problem with the 'nice guys finish last' statement is the fact that usually those guys never really tried to begin with.They listen, and listen, and listen, and listen - then one day they grab their nuts and ask the girl out. She declines and he sulks and goes away.It's like in another thread where Waar pointed out that being the nice guy who listens (friend) equates to shooting yourself in the foot because the girl views the guy as a "friend", even if they try their luck and ask the girl out, rejection is almost a guaranteed thing. Is it possible to blame the guy in this type of situation? From what I can tell, not really.
ZiggyOtaku wrote...
I want a guy whose confident in himself, I want a guy whose funny and kind. I need him to be independent and able to support at least himself. Above all I want a guy who can be my friend within the relationship.I can't argue with you there. Somehow though, I can't imagine a guy listening to a girl's sob story or just a friendly chat to be someone of limited maturity or a person who isn't responsible. Things like that don't appear until you know the person further, and what I'm getting at is that sometimes girls don't give guys the chance to prove themselves and then they get rejected. It's something I've noticed, but it isn't a huge trend.
As for the argument that not all women are drawn to the asshole-type, I agree, and we hear things from the women's point of view that men don't deliver what women want in a relationship a lot of times. But in more recent times, I think the scales have started to tip over in men's favor to complain. Men and women are supposedly equal, and it's starting to take effect everywhere. Women can afford to choose who they want to be with, and dating is starting to become a thing of a past. While this may be a 20 year old's impression and observation, it's something I've gathered online and in real life even if there isn't any fact in what I'm saying other than personal experience.
@gibbous: no offense, but your post smacks full of self-righteousness and BS. If guys wanted to be assholes to get girls, we'd all be assholes, except we aren't because not all people can compromise with who they are, and turning into an asshole - would you really be satisfied by being something you aren't?
gibbous wrote...
why do girl never make the first step Oh, they do. It's just usually so that the "nice guy" is either too absorbed with wallowing in his self-inflicted misery to notice - or shies away, labeling the girl a "slut".
I've never heard of something so wrong. When girls tend to see a guy as a "friend", I guarantee you that they don't make the first move. No, they use the guy as you aptly put it an "emotional landfill" and move on to someone else. As far as labeling the girl a "slut", that's a new one.
0
@gibbous: no offense, but your post smacks full of self-righteousness and BS. If guys wanted to be assholes to get girls, we'd all be assholes, except we aren't because not all people can compromise with who they are, and turning into an asshole - would you really be satisfied by being something you aren't?
None taken. And likewise no offense, but the "boo hoo waah, I want to continue my self-perceived nice-guy shtick and have girls drop into my lap" litany does smack of self-righteousness and BS to me.
It's o.k. if you value "being something you are" higher than leading a relationship; I won't look down on you for that. But then to go ranting that you don't succeed with this "something you are" in your pursuit of a relationship and blame the girls for it - that's fairly laughable to me.
When girls tend to see a guy as a "friend", I guarantee you that they don't make the first move.
Didn't say they would. Quoted selectively on purpose in my previous post.
Is it possible to blame the guy in this type of situation? From what I can tell, not really.
Like I insinuated in the other thread: If you don't want to slide into the role of the friend-as-therapist, be staunch in your refusal of that role. Of course it is possible to blame the guy, too. Takes two to tango in this "dilemma".
As far as labeling the girl a "slut", that's a new one.
Shrug. Heard more than enough of those whiny rants, myself.
0
@gibbous: well said. I do agree that nice-guys have to take their lumps and go on the initiative, and if they don't, that lack of initiative is their own fault and they have no right to complain. It's just that there are guys who do what I wrote aforementioned and get turned down... and is vexing if not downright infuriating.
It does take two to tango, but I'm guessing the nice-guy part won over in said situation, and if he does confess and gets rejected, I'm not sure if its the guys fault at all.
Damn man, from whatever part you're from (I think it was Canada, right?), them guys need to grow some balls.
gibbous wrote...
Like I insinuated in the other thread: If you don't want to slide into the role of the friend-as-therapist, be staunch in your refusal of that role. Of course it is possible to blame the guy, too. Takes two to tango in this "dilemma". It does take two to tango, but I'm guessing the nice-guy part won over in said situation, and if he does confess and gets rejected, I'm not sure if its the guys fault at all.
gibbous wrote...
Shrug. Heard more than enough of those whiny rants, myself.Damn man, from whatever part you're from (I think it was Canada, right?), them guys need to grow some balls.
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why do feel like this was posted on livejournal?
the logic in it is indeed rather narrow.
1.not all girls are like that, some are actually intelligent. if i were to stereotype to help explain, these are the 16 year old girl the anon have been bawing about since last thursday over 9000 100 years ago. look them up on ED. they aren't too smart (generally speaking as some have not had the need for brains to survive) and get what they want mostly through sex appeal alone, they are generally spoiled (coz nobodeh treats a princess badly) which warps their minds and elevates their sense of ego. thus resulting in a stunted growth of maturity, inability to adapt (and hence defends their sense of security fiercely) and follows a happy-go lucky attitude because of their faith that everyone will try to save her, comfort her and/or even pay more attention to her.
thats one type of girl, and truth be told the fool in the friend zone with that girl is just as much as a fool for liking her. why? ok, compared to mr "asshole" (whom i surmise is likely only an asshole to you and ppl like you but nice to other ppl-as for urself...are you exactly the same way?no? we'll see) you are 2nd rate...BUT compared to mrs asshole, other girls aren't good enough? oooo! now yu realise you have indeed also been being mr asshole.
and so i explain the situation in a far more, less faggoty and more true to reality way instead of personal preference to the perception of reality and all the world remains the same regardless.
the logic in it is indeed rather narrow.
1.not all girls are like that, some are actually intelligent. if i were to stereotype to help explain, these are the 16 year old girl the anon have been bawing about since last thursday over 9000 100 years ago. look them up on ED. they aren't too smart (generally speaking as some have not had the need for brains to survive) and get what they want mostly through sex appeal alone, they are generally spoiled (coz nobodeh treats a princess badly) which warps their minds and elevates their sense of ego. thus resulting in a stunted growth of maturity, inability to adapt (and hence defends their sense of security fiercely) and follows a happy-go lucky attitude because of their faith that everyone will try to save her, comfort her and/or even pay more attention to her.
thats one type of girl, and truth be told the fool in the friend zone with that girl is just as much as a fool for liking her. why? ok, compared to mr "asshole" (whom i surmise is likely only an asshole to you and ppl like you but nice to other ppl-as for urself...are you exactly the same way?no? we'll see) you are 2nd rate...BUT compared to mrs asshole, other girls aren't good enough? oooo! now yu realise you have indeed also been being mr asshole.
and so i explain the situation in a far more, less faggoty and more true to reality way instead of personal preference to the perception of reality and all the world remains the same regardless.
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Brittany
Director of Production
Advent wrote...
I would rather that you not put me on the firing line, as I did not write this article or have any contribution towards its creation whatsoever.I'm sorry, I had thought the majority of it was your rant and a small portion of it was the article.
g-money wrote...
gibbous wrote...
why do girl never make the first step Oh, they do. It's just usually so that the "nice guy" is either too absorbed with wallowing in his self-inflicted misery to notice - or shies away, labeling the girl a "slut".
I've never heard of something so wrong. When girls tend to see a guy as a "friend", I guarantee you that they don't make the first move. No, they use the guy as you aptly put it an "emotional landfill" and move on to someone else. As far as labeling the girl a "slut", that's a new one.
I think what he's talking about more is with moves and hints and so forth. Girls can be very subtle about their interest. It's kind of like going in for a kiss, but you don't completely close in. You let the other person finish for you?
Some girls make the first move, but a lot won't. I personally won't. 1. I'm shy, and I don't particularly care whether or not I'm in a relationship. It's very nice, but I'm comfortable just being with me too. 2. Because it shows me the guy is interested and that when he wants something he goes for it.
I'm actually surprised nobody has mentioned rebounding.
I know I've done this once before. A girl gets really hurt and goes to her male friend and he comforts her and makes her feel better and in turn she starts having feelings for him, because of emotions all in a knot.
That's mild though compared to other rebounds. Some girls, no matter how bad their relationship is, won't leave their partner until they find somebody else to fill that gap that they 'need' and be comforted. Some girls just cannot stand not being in a relationship, that they need to be in one in order to have any significance.
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ZiggyOtaku wrote...
I want a guy whose confident in himself... I need him to be independent...These two points are where nice guys fail.
Women don't want assholes, they want confidence. They DATE assholes because assholes HAVE confidence. Too much, usually. I've questioned my female friends a number of times why they're with asshole men and the answer was almost always the same... because he's the only one who her out.
Timing is the nice guy's worst enemy, not the asshole. Nice guys need TIME. They're always waiting for the right TIME. The truth is, there is no right time. Nice guys try to finagle their way into a woman's, er heart? They bide their time, listening to her problems, thinking that they're endearing themselves to her. They figure they can wait a while until she's used to them or thinks highly of them and build their confidence at the same time. Then, when they're both comfortable with each other, they'll ask her out and it'll seem natural. She'll finally open her eyes and realize that this is the right guy for her.
WRONG.
Truth is, all that time spent listening is actually planting them firmly into the Friend Zone. She's become accustomed to thinking of this nice guy as a friend, a compatriot. When he asks her out it blind sides her. She thinks it's completely weird that this guy, who showed no real previous aggression, is suddenly coming on to her. Time spent together as friends has changed her perspective of him and his apparent about face has turned her off.
This creates another situation with the same nice guys. "Learning" from their rejection with the first girl they liked, a lot of nice guys will take their false information and new found boldness (they actually DID work up the courage to ask the first one out, after all...) and decide on a different tact with the next girl they like. They figure they waited too long with the first one. With the next one they'll move in as soon as she gets dumped by her asshole boyfriend. Then they do. Only their timing couldn't be worse. No woman wants to be asked out by some guy on the periphery as soon as she gets dumped.
And so on and so forth...
I am neither defending nor condemning Nice Guys or women who seemingly only date assholes. All I'm doing is putting forth evidence as I've seen it in thirty some odd years of observing men and women on this Earth. Women want confidence, self-esteem, and charm. Assholes usually have those attributes and will use them to get the girl. Women ALSO want humor, kindness, romance, compassion, and loyalty, traits that most nice guys have. Those attributes, though, don't usually surface in most first encounters or whenever else they get asked out.
A lot of what was said in the OP's quoted article seems true... from the perspective of a burned nice guy. And in some instances its close to the truth. There are always three sides to every story, though, his side, her side, and the truth, which lies in between. Nice guys finish last because they lack the confidence to move forward.
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g-money wrote...
Damn man, from whatever part you're from (I think it was Canada, right?), them guys need to grow some balls.Sorry, nope ^.~
Entirely different continent in fact.
It does take two to tango, but I'm guessing the nice-guy part won over in said situation, and if he does confess and gets rejected, I'm not sure if its the guys fault at all.
What I meant is: Part of the blame goes to the guy for letting the girl use him as an emotional trashcan. And part of the blame goes to the girl for being too cheap to seek a paid listener. There are trained professionals who will take your emotional ballast and respond with sage (or not so sage) advice in exchange for money.
If the guy however does take the role of that listener-slash-emotional-dumpster, free of charge, then that's clearly an abusive relationship. He should just realize that and give up his hopes and get the fuck out of it, instead of dithering and then confessing some day, deluding himself into thinking he's still got a chance.
ZiggyOtaku wrote...
I think what he's talking about more is with moves and hints and so forth.And sometimes these hints get pretty obvious, and in my observation you then get two basic scenarios with the stereotypical "nice guy":
a) He doesn't notice. Or pretends not to, because he doesn't want to be seen as "aggressive" and wants to "bide his time". That can be pretty grating to watch from a distance, actually. I had a total "nice guy" co-worker who behaved like that, and it made me want to grab him by the shoulders and yell at him.
b) He's got the machismo stereotype of "flirtatious guys are studs, flirtatious gals are sluts" so deeply ingrained that he reacts with distress because she's not the pure and unstained princess he demands. Seen that, as said, happen too many times; and that's not grating, it's simply sickening.
It's O.K. for the guy to fill the passive part, but he at least needs to send out clear signals that he's interested. When flirted with, he needs to respond; when she shows interest, make it clear in at least some way that he is too, instead of trying to come off as noncommittal and harmless and "simply nice with no ulterior motives". You can't really blame the girl if she otherwise assumes that he's not interested, and moves on.
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gibbous wrote...
Spoiler:
So, what's the solution. When you become close to a girl you may be interested in. You just ask her right out if she wanna go on a date ? Or you listen a bit before doing this ? Or you totally fall for the emo trashcan ? It has been said that there's no right timing and I guess it's true, but what could be the best one ? I mean, in a girl's point of view.
gibbous wrote...
Spoiler:
Ehm, I don't think any "nice guy" would take the machism for true, really. If they were to, bet they'd be assholes type.
Concerning the first part. I must admit that I can't interpret any subtle sign from a girl (or even hardly any human being ...), so please, could you be a bit more precise on this point ? It's true that we don't want to seem aggressive, and we often take our time to try to describe signs, but we end up in doing nothing, like it's been said earlier. So, what are thoses secret moves we can't understand, what must we take for a "I'm interested in him" or a "He seems to be a good guy, maybe we can become friends" ?
I'm sorry if I take too much attention of the fair sex, but I guess I want to find some solution after all the troubles I went in concerning the subject. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
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I have to agree with Gibbous on this thoroughly. It screams of desperation to blame the girl because she always seems to fall in love with the asshole type. Now who is the real asshole? The way I see it your blaming the girl for your own shortfalls.
Don't blame the asshole types and certain don't blame the girls. It's entirely your fault. Figure it out and stop trying to post blame on everyone, but yourself. I'm not trying to say become an asshole, but don't use it as an excuse for when you fail to reach a girl's heart.
Don't blame the asshole types and certain don't blame the girls. It's entirely your fault. Figure it out and stop trying to post blame on everyone, but yourself. I'm not trying to say become an asshole, but don't use it as an excuse for when you fail to reach a girl's heart.
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Brittany
Director of Production
SunQuan wrote...
With the next one they'll move in as soon as she gets dumped by her asshole boyfriend. Then they do. Only their timing couldn't be worse. No woman wants to be asked out by some guy on the periphery as soon as she gets dumped.
I actually disagree to a point. Though it depends on what type of female you're talking about. I would be one who wouldn't want a relationship right after a break up. However, most of the time girls fresh from a dumped relationship would almost be considered an easy target.
They're emotional, feel rejected and currently wallowing in self pity. That'd be a grand opportunity for a guy to step in and put on some charm for the girl. Whether it'd be appropriate or not.
Fumako wrote...
So, what's the solution. When you become close to a girl you may be interested in. You just ask her right out if she wanna go on a date ? Or you listen a bit before doing this ? Or you totally fall for the emo trashcan ? It has been said that there's no right timing and I guess it's true, but what could be the best one ? I mean, in a girl's point of view.
My suggestion (as in, what would work for me - though I can't speak for every girl) is if you're interested in a female friend, try to do things that would be borderline friend zone. Instead of straight out saying 'will you go out with me' while you're in (if you're in) a friend zone, ask her if she wants to go see a movie with you. Don't mention anything about paying, let her wonder about it and then step in and pay for her. Invite her to dinner, take her out. Friendly dates.
Then she'll get a taste of what you're like when you're talking and also get a taste of what you're like in a date scene too. Trust me, girls analyze everything. She'll be able to make connections.
Don't make it all awkward about the dates too by going 'uuuh, mmm, would you want to go to a movie with me some time?' Just think of a movie she most like would want to see (if she's your friend, you should know her tastes) and go 'hey, I want to go see this movie, do you want to come with me?'
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Tsurayu wrote...
I have to agree with Gibbous on this thoroughly. It screams of desperation to blame the girl because she always seems to fall in love with the asshole type. Now who is the real asshole? The way I see it your blaming the girl for your own shortfalls. Don't blame the asshole types and certain don't blame the girls. It's entirely your fault. Figure it out and stop trying to post blame on everyone, but yourself. I'm not trying to say become an asshole, but don't use it as an excuse for when you fail to reach a girl's heart.
Wait, who are you refering to? I don't think anyone except the author of the articles is blaming the female side of this relationship equation.
@ZiggyOtaku: Rebounding, as you put it, sounds too good to be true in real life. From what I've experienced (and heard), guys who become an emo can for the girls to dump their life into are nothing more than "friends" and the girls don't go for them. Weird psychology at play, (I'm not using my brain enough since I just took a test today, otherwise I might be able to come up with a reasonable psych hypothesis) and I can't really explain it. Sometimes, I also don't think anyone understands each other, both women and men, and sometimes the signals go completely over each other's heads. Women say men can't read signals... but on the other hand men feel that women don't understand what they want either. Maybe this is the result of the current system, I dunno.
@SunQuan: the timing excuse is bullshit, and I think a lot people realize that, but your post smacks of truth, I can attest.
@gibbous: oh shit, my bad about the nation... I thought you said you were from Canada, but I'm wrong though. However, I do think that you are one cold guy, and I mean this as a compliment and a criticism. As for choice a), that's something reasonable, but I've never really seen it for myself, and choice b) I think that happens after a bitter experience of rejection(s).
@Fumako: ultimately, and like every other user said, one needs confidence. You can be a nice guy but you've got to have confidence. I'm assuming that the article talks about nice guys who are spineless from the beginning finally grow a spine but it's already too late by then.
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Tegumi
"im always cute"
Hello everyone. There's also a good chance of an issue with "I am simply not attracted to you", or "I am simply not interested in a relationship right now".
And oh my, I speak for myself.
And oh my, I speak for myself.
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g-money wrote...
@ZiggyOtaku: Rebounding, as you put it, sounds too good to be true in real life. From what I've experienced (and heard), guys who become an emo can for the girls to dump their life into are nothing more than "friends" and the girls don't go for them. Weird psychology at play, (I'm not using my brain enough since I just took a test today, otherwise I might be able to come up with a reasonable psych hypothesis) and I can't really explain it. Sometimes, I also don't think anyone understands each other, both women and men, and sometimes the signals go completely over each other's heads. Women say men can't read signals... but on the other hand men feel that women don't understand what they want either. Maybe this is the result of the current system, I dunno.G-Money I'm surprised that you think "rebounding" is a too good to be true. In the simplest description it is the emotional trashcan but, when are emotional issues ever 'simple"? They're not, they are complex, irrational and illogical.
Rebounds are never meant to work they are done solely to block out the painful feelings of the original break up
http://www.thesite.org/sexandrelationships/singles/onthepull/ontherebound