USA. a ship not worth saving??

His post on the last page. He added you as one of the exceptions!

But it's understandable. Who would want to reread his posts?

Awww sweet. I'm now different, special and original. I stand out from the masses.

Nah, you'd just be copying me now.

Oh, do you remember the topic of our discussion? Socialism (in Theory and Practice)? I think I had explained very well why I had reason to be "pretentious" (prétentieux). Surely you could have engaged in an eye-height discussion instead of trying to slag me off with empty phrases - if you just had the knowledge to.

I tried to be nice as I try to be nice to everyone here. My conscience is clear.

Well, you fail at that.


I know that they say Ignorance is Strength and all that, but must we really watch this crap?

Having that out of the way, and on OP:

I think that ideas on which America is built, and what made America in the first place, are worth saving.

They certainly did add a lot of spirit to all those who had ever fought against oppression.


And it's not like everyone in the U.S is an asshole or corrupt mongrel.

The people need just to realize they have the power, and clean out the trash. As it was said, it won't happen now, and it will be arduous and difficult, but America can still remain the symbol it was.

Doesn't mean it all won't go south. It will all depend on the people, since it is the people who will ultimately make up the nation.

I just stand out from different masses my dear.

Also, I think we should go back on topic, which I think is an interesting one.

I just wanted to ask the OP what does he mean by getting the hell out and letting the country burn?
It's true there is a huge social gap, between poor and rich, but don't you think that letting the US go "bankrupt" will only be a disandvantage for those already at the bottom of the social ladder?

*edit*

@tachyon : I don't think there was even a discussion. You said what you had to say, I found it very inappropriate, and decided not to answer to someone who was either trolling, either not able to listen to a word of what I would've said and is beyond salvation.

Possibly.

Though if it goes bankrupt, there is a good chance that they would be FORCED to redistribute wealth. So it could be a blessing in disguise in that merit.

Country starts going downhill + forming a rebellion = profit?

Sounds like more fun then college rofl

Kal, Tachyon, and the guy with the super long name: lets not turn this into a flame thread, chill out and stay on topic.

The USA is one of the last ships to sink. The national debt is only around 66% of the GDP whilst there are 3rd world countries that have debts several times higher than their GDP. The USA will have to cut Defense, Social security, Medicare & Medicaid, and it will be able to pay back its dept quite quickly. It must only stabilize and pull out in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the Taliban of course knows that very well :), if they hold out they will win sooner or later.

But not getting the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline trough, could mean long term disadvantages. And lets not forget the Lithium ;)

War in Afghanistan is expensive, thats why the Soviets lost it. And thats why the US-marionette Hamid Karzai is so desperate for peace. "My dear Tali, Afghanistan is also your land..." Taliban: [boom][ratatatatatata] cute Hamid Karzai ;)

@Cormac: "its people like this that are the reason our country is going to hell" - I was only addressing this statement.

well its kinda about what it is to be american i supose, i mentioned this in my other topic about polotics but it seems like were so damned worried about trying to make everyone else happy that were expected to fix everything, and not only that but do it with two arms tied behinde our backs and a broken leg. to qoute myself weve lost our thunder, the fire under the boiler, our mojo. and frankly it disgusts me. sure i understand that we have to go to some lengths for certain issues but we dont have to "fix it till its broke". so to condense what i mean, i love being an american, or would if that ment what it used to mean. sad fact is that it doesint anymore. so once i get my degrees ill be leaveing and geting out of the country before it implodes. i just hope i can do that before it does.

One thing I've learned over the years is this:

-If you're an American, you either love or hate your country. There's no middle ground.

-If you're in a country with a relatively equal standard of living to America, you likely take the opportunity to criticize our way of life. (i.e. Americans are fat because of fast food, Americans are all racist rednecks)

-If you're in a country with a lower standard of living than America, you likely take the opportunity to criticize our government and how our country is run.

The fact of the matter is, I'm a proud American. I love this country and what it stands for, and having heard tales of the third-world from relatives who go out there on humanitarian missions and from having seen first-hand the poverty of people living in such countries, I am beyond thankful for the life I've been given.

If your country has a lesser standard of living than America's, don't bother criticizing our government--chances are, better than not, our government has been a lot more successful at keeping the peace, keeping roofs over its citizens heads, keeping its people fed and protected, and keeping its territory intact. This isn't bragging, this is just common sense: if you want to criticize a country's government, first take a look at your own, compare and contrast the differences, and then match them up with the differences between your countries.

Most people bash the USA for childish or immature reasons. Sometimes it's jealousy, and sometimes it's fear. Some countries are afraid of how large the USA is. Some governments are afraid of how many freedoms the USA grants its people, and how the USA was formed on the idea of rising up against a government that abridges the rights of its citizens.

In my opinion, an argument over the superiority of one country over another is a waste of time. Canadians like to say our health care and education systems are bad. The British like to tell us that our government is too aggressive and that our people are dumb, fat, and brutish. Asians like to tell us that their girls are better looking (as wholly unimportant a point as that is) and that their technology and way of thinking are far superior. In the long run, who gives a shit? Everyone has an opinion.

Also, didn't read the topic. Just read the first post, so nothing I said was directed at anyone in particular. However, to answer the topic of "USA: a ship not worth saving?", I would like to remind the good people in this thread that there's no use sending out the lifeboats when there's absolutely nothing going wrong.

EDIT: I notice that I flip-flopped around and didn't really adhere to any one point long enough to properly explain it. Tough shit, I don't really give a damn right now: I'm in the middle of playing Fallout: New Vegas, and it is AWESOME.

One thing's for sure, I won't want to be a slacker in other countries.

Funny thing about that.

Being from Montreal, Canada, take it from me when I say, it's not that much better. According to my fellow colleges in highschool, and certain teachers as well, the educational reform, in Quebec at least, has put us in hell. Not too sure of the details though. I don't really fully understand enough to comment on it.

And about the Canadian health care system, it's not much better.

I'd tell you about it's drawbacks myself, but I think it's best to take the word from a doctor:



Taken from here:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

OT:
I believe that the United-States is actually very well-off compared to a lot of other countries. There have been some bad decisions before, however there have been brilliant, economical decisions made by competent people(Such as the "New Deal" proposed by Franklin Delano Roosevelt). I think the U.S.A can stand on it's two feet just fine. It does not need saving. Even if it does, it's probably very worth it. It's a country with great values and there have been a lot of great minds that come from the U.S. It's worth it.

can someone please explain to me why this was moved to frigin ib? there hasint been babbling, a bit of arguing yes but no spaming and we were staying on topic. so what the hell.

WORKS BETTER IN RANDOM.

That was a rather defeatists attitude, though I must agree in the long run.

That doesn't mean that we should just throw our arms in the air and give up or there won't be a "run" to enjoy because everything will go to Hell in a matter of short timespan. It, or should I supposed to be, human nature to better oneself, and it is possible to turn things around in the United States.

Difficult? Yes. Extremely difficult? Perhaps so.

Of course I'm thinking of the economy first and foremost. As it stands, the glaring fact that politicians and citizens alike choose to ignore is that there is no solution for the economy. It isn't that the Democrats or Republicans don't want to solve the situation, it is that there is no solution. There is currently no theory in existence that could save the United States, and by most extensions, the global economy.

The best we could do is delay an inevitable collapse. What is often considered a "potential" solution is frankly impossible now, which is to "back up" paper currency with actual tangible objects of definable value such as gold. Problem is that's impractical with how huge the global economy has become.

Not to mention that still doesn't solve what is probably the biggest problem in the United States economy - credit debt. Yes. Credit card and medical debts. They are outstandingly high. Forgive me for not remembering the exact figures, but most Americans have at least $6,000 in debt between credit and medical. That's insane. The people can't pay it, and despite popular belief the government can't either. Which goes back to what I said, it's a problem that has no solution.

Anyway, I could keep going on and on, but I'm done for now.