Eco-terrorists
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Brittany
Director of Production
I've been watching the show "Whale Wars" on Animal Planet for quite some time now, they're currently airing the third season of it - so I would assume it does well ratings wise.
If you don't know what the show is, basically its a group called the Sea Shepherd's who set out on vessels targeting Japanese Whaling ships who claim they are hunting whales for scientific purposes. However, the Sea Shepherd's claim that they hunt well over their limit and don't believe that the whales hunted are being killed for scientific purposes. They feel that they're breaking the law and they're making it their business to enforce the law that nobody else seems to be enforcing on to the Japanese whaler's.
Their tactics will be mainly throwing stink bombs on the ship to ruin the smell of the meat making it so it wouldn't be salable in the Japanese market, or shooting whales who were harpooned with poisonous arrows making the meat, again, unable to be sold on the Japanese market. The stink bombs will make it more miserable for whalers and more difficult to hunt.
When they're desperate, sometimes they'll try to set out a line to tangle up the ships propellers but so far in all three seasons that hasn't been proved to be successful.
They've also put their own members on board the whaling vessels (not to do harm, they're very careful to stay in the legal boundaries and not hit pirating) making it a political battle forcing the whaling to stop for a few days until governments are able to get people separated.
tl;dr: The Sea Shepherd's basically harass Japanese whalers without causing actual harm to them
There was a recent documentary as well called The Cove. (very good movie, if you're interested, you can watch it here: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=BD9DT9KL)
It focused on a very small town in Japan that did quite a large scale controversial issue that many people in Japan (in areas such was Tokyo) don't even realize occurs. It was about a group of people who put the spot light and showed proof that this town in Japan was clearly lying and covering up the (non ethical) killings of thousands of dolphins ever year.
They originally catch them to sell across the world for dolphin parks, and then they take the rest behind a cove where they're guarded and killed mercilessly for dolphin meat. The issue behind this is that dolphin meat is considered toxic to people and can cause deformities to new born children. The mercury levels are through the roof of what's the legal amount allowed in food sold, and when collecting meat labeled as whale meat, when testing it some of it was actually simply bottle nosed dolphins.
These people would free dolphins from captivity, plant cameras, would be willing to get arrested, risk their live all for something they believed in. They knew nobody else was going to do something and took action.
They get labeled as eco-terrorists and nut jobs, but I can't help but find them very admirable. I would love to have the ability to go out and take action for something I believe in without caring about the legal consequences.
Where is the line though?
Bombing abortion clinics, or threatening peoples lives are common tactics done by people who feel just as strong about different controversial issues.
Someone on the show Whale Wars said something interesting last episode "I've always felt like people should be more scared of doing nothing than doing something about what they believe in"
it goes along with the same line "The government should be afraid of its people, not the other way around."
Let me know what you guys think.
If you don't know what the show is, basically its a group called the Sea Shepherd's who set out on vessels targeting Japanese Whaling ships who claim they are hunting whales for scientific purposes. However, the Sea Shepherd's claim that they hunt well over their limit and don't believe that the whales hunted are being killed for scientific purposes. They feel that they're breaking the law and they're making it their business to enforce the law that nobody else seems to be enforcing on to the Japanese whaler's.
Their tactics will be mainly throwing stink bombs on the ship to ruin the smell of the meat making it so it wouldn't be salable in the Japanese market, or shooting whales who were harpooned with poisonous arrows making the meat, again, unable to be sold on the Japanese market. The stink bombs will make it more miserable for whalers and more difficult to hunt.
When they're desperate, sometimes they'll try to set out a line to tangle up the ships propellers but so far in all three seasons that hasn't been proved to be successful.
They've also put their own members on board the whaling vessels (not to do harm, they're very careful to stay in the legal boundaries and not hit pirating) making it a political battle forcing the whaling to stop for a few days until governments are able to get people separated.
tl;dr: The Sea Shepherd's basically harass Japanese whalers without causing actual harm to them
There was a recent documentary as well called The Cove. (very good movie, if you're interested, you can watch it here: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=BD9DT9KL)
It focused on a very small town in Japan that did quite a large scale controversial issue that many people in Japan (in areas such was Tokyo) don't even realize occurs. It was about a group of people who put the spot light and showed proof that this town in Japan was clearly lying and covering up the (non ethical) killings of thousands of dolphins ever year.
They originally catch them to sell across the world for dolphin parks, and then they take the rest behind a cove where they're guarded and killed mercilessly for dolphin meat. The issue behind this is that dolphin meat is considered toxic to people and can cause deformities to new born children. The mercury levels are through the roof of what's the legal amount allowed in food sold, and when collecting meat labeled as whale meat, when testing it some of it was actually simply bottle nosed dolphins.
These people would free dolphins from captivity, plant cameras, would be willing to get arrested, risk their live all for something they believed in. They knew nobody else was going to do something and took action.
They get labeled as eco-terrorists and nut jobs, but I can't help but find them very admirable. I would love to have the ability to go out and take action for something I believe in without caring about the legal consequences.
Where is the line though?
Bombing abortion clinics, or threatening peoples lives are common tactics done by people who feel just as strong about different controversial issues.
Someone on the show Whale Wars said something interesting last episode "I've always felt like people should be more scared of doing nothing than doing something about what they believe in"
it goes along with the same line "The government should be afraid of its people, not the other way around."
Let me know what you guys think.
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im an avid fan of whale wars and ive been keeping up with it, and i agree with the line that we should be more afraid of doing nothing then doing something we belive in. not just with whales but with everything we do to kill this planet. point of fact. in all the time earth has been around [4.6 billion years] we have only been around for a tiiiiiiiny fraction of that time, yet weve managed to do more harm to the planet that would EVER naturaly occur. and i actuly think this decade or the next 5 years is going to be the turning point for global warming, amoung other things. i give credit for the new leaders for STARTING the change but the fact is it could be to little to late. whenever i think about it it just disgusts me.
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I hate eco-anything movements because the people are always so pretentious, but I really don't agree with the fundamentals of eco-terrorism. Whether you agree with their aims or not, ruining the whalers' catch and harassing them is a terrible thing to do; that's just going to push them into catching more to fill the gap. This is these people's livelihood, and temporarily fucking it up is going to get them less money in an already difficult business, make them work longer and harder to sustain it, and make them more determined to do so.
If you're going to change anything, let it be through political pressure and undercover journalism. To be honest, what they're doing reeks of wanting to be famous.
If you're going to change anything, let it be through political pressure and undercover journalism. To be honest, what they're doing reeks of wanting to be famous.
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Sounds like Greenpeace. I don't particularly hold myself in favor of one side or another. These Greenpeace, and Greenpeace-esque wannabes are encouraging at best and pretentious at worst. What they do has far less impact on whaling fleets and "brining the message home" than they give themselves credit for.
We can argue the legitimacy in whaling until we are blue in the face, but Greenpeace groups have just as well become the bullies of the sea, just as much if not more than whaling ships. Perhaps they really believe that desperate times call for desperate measures, but I can't agree. There are other ways to discourage whaling than literally being terrorists.
We can argue the legitimacy in whaling until we are blue in the face, but Greenpeace groups have just as well become the bullies of the sea, just as much if not more than whaling ships. Perhaps they really believe that desperate times call for desperate measures, but I can't agree. There are other ways to discourage whaling than literally being terrorists.
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I can respect how passionate these people may feel about their issue, but I don't think they're investing their time and efforts in the right areas.
These "eco-terrorists" aren't taking actions that are conducive to positive and effective dialogue between the two opposing parties. What they're doing may have noble intentions, but it isn't helping their cause at all. By picking on just a few boats, what do they gain? Success on an extremely small scale and limited time frame at best.
Rather than trying to make a point through harassment, these people should be working through the political processes of banning commercial whaling. Their efforts would be better invested in promoting a long lasting, wide-spread solution.
The idea of taking action without regard to the law may sound romantic in this context, but is that really beneficial to the cause?
These "eco-terrorists" aren't taking actions that are conducive to positive and effective dialogue between the two opposing parties. What they're doing may have noble intentions, but it isn't helping their cause at all. By picking on just a few boats, what do they gain? Success on an extremely small scale and limited time frame at best.
Rather than trying to make a point through harassment, these people should be working through the political processes of banning commercial whaling. Their efforts would be better invested in promoting a long lasting, wide-spread solution.
The idea of taking action without regard to the law may sound romantic in this context, but is that really beneficial to the cause?
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
What they are doing is akin to someone punching another person in the face during a debate.
Sure it shuts them up, but you just basically hurt your side a whole hell of a lot.
And when they get up from your punch, well they are usually pissed off enough that they'll stay adamant on their side rather than even trying to think you have a worthy cause.
So not only do you weaken your stance, but you strengthen the other stance.
As for the whole calling them terrorists thing. It's all propaganda. One side calls them terrorist, the other side will do things like this Whale Wars bit which paints what they're doing in a good light.
Sure it shuts them up, but you just basically hurt your side a whole hell of a lot.
And when they get up from your punch, well they are usually pissed off enough that they'll stay adamant on their side rather than even trying to think you have a worthy cause.
So not only do you weaken your stance, but you strengthen the other stance.
As for the whole calling them terrorists thing. It's all propaganda. One side calls them terrorist, the other side will do things like this Whale Wars bit which paints what they're doing in a good light.
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I would assume that what the whalers do is legal. The right approach I would guess is to appeal to the body who can amend the rules - if youre successful there, you can save the whales that are even beyond your lifetime.
As for these people who attack the whalers, Ive more respect for them compared to others who are all just empty words.
Whaling isnt the only means of making money in this world. Cant you catch tuna, swordfish, crab or whatever else?
The whalers are there coz people buy the whale products, to stop this, you should go for the consumers and not the producers.
As for these people who attack the whalers, Ive more respect for them compared to others who are all just empty words.
Whaling isnt the only means of making money in this world. Cant you catch tuna, swordfish, crab or whatever else?
The whalers are there coz people buy the whale products, to stop this, you should go for the consumers and not the producers.
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Terrorism is cool with me if its for a just cause. I mean, The U.S.A. wouldn't have come to be without the fantastic terrorist efforts of freedom fighters. Who cares if they sometimes have incorrect information and muff up someones perfectly legal actions, thats how terrorism works. You can't save an omlette without abusing a few hungry people, y'know?
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jmason
Curious and Wondering
The whaling eco-dudes on Animal Planet. Oh boy.
The way I see it, these whaling Sea Shepherds are taking the easy way out. They harass the hunters, sabotage their ships, fire stink bombs and shoot poisoned arrows at the haul in their desperation. I emphasize desperation.
There's no debating their aims, they just want the whales to be safe and free from being sushi meat. But what is debatable is how they pursue their aims. And frankly, I really don't like how they mostly do it. It's cowardly, unjust, and overall pathetic.
What the Shepherds are doing with the Japanese whaling ships is counterproductive - as doswillrule correctly says, it simply makes the whalers more pursuant and pushed into hunting more whales to make up for lost bounty instead of the other way around. It's great we see some people do action about it, but what's sad is how they invest their efforts in a losing side. Can't they just resort to legal, political action and save themselves a whole lot of Whale Wars episodes and a ton of useless effort?
Yes, we should be scared more of doing nothing than doing something about what we believe in - but if I'm going to do something I'd rather do it the hard, sure and steady way, a way that ensures success in the long run.
The way I see it, these whaling Sea Shepherds are taking the easy way out. They harass the hunters, sabotage their ships, fire stink bombs and shoot poisoned arrows at the haul in their desperation. I emphasize desperation.
There's no debating their aims, they just want the whales to be safe and free from being sushi meat. But what is debatable is how they pursue their aims. And frankly, I really don't like how they mostly do it. It's cowardly, unjust, and overall pathetic.
What the Shepherds are doing with the Japanese whaling ships is counterproductive - as doswillrule correctly says, it simply makes the whalers more pursuant and pushed into hunting more whales to make up for lost bounty instead of the other way around. It's great we see some people do action about it, but what's sad is how they invest their efforts in a losing side. Can't they just resort to legal, political action and save themselves a whole lot of Whale Wars episodes and a ton of useless effort?
Yes, we should be scared more of doing nothing than doing something about what we believe in - but if I'm going to do something I'd rather do it the hard, sure and steady way, a way that ensures success in the long run.
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Hahahaha,
"Hey! Hey you! Yea, I'm talkin' to you! Stop hunting whales right now!"
"Nani?"
"You bastard! Don't pretend you don't understand me or I'll harass you!"
"Hey! Hey you! Yea, I'm talkin' to you! Stop hunting whales right now!"
"Nani?"
"You bastard! Don't pretend you don't understand me or I'll harass you!"
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Brittany
Director of Production
I do want to point out, these people don't depend on whale meat for their survival. Not everyone even eats it in Japan or eats it very rarely.
They go out certain times of the year because of where the whales are located, so it's the Sea Shepherds goal to make it difficult while they're there so they run out of time.
They go out certain times of the year because of where the whales are located, so it's the Sea Shepherds goal to make it difficult while they're there so they run out of time.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
I like how most of their tactics involve ruining the meat of the whale after it's already dead.
Great job on saving those whales guys!
Great job on saving those whales guys!
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Room101
Waifu Collector
Eco-terrorists are criminals, no matter how you look at it. Of course, it's ironical, since the whalers themselves are no smaller criminals than them.
I generally hate eco-activists since most (read most, not all) of the lot are fanatical ego-centrics with a 'high-'n-mighty' attitude. And for the most part their "solutions" are either infeasible, or would take much more time than they'd be willing to wait. And they tend to overblow some problems, although that is a problem of every activism nowadays.
The eco-bull aside tough, the actual idea of doing something that is widely opposed (or condemned) in name of what you believe in, is quite commendable. It is perceived because of that that the world has changed, for better or worse. It won't make you any less criminal, if it's something of a crime...but then again, history is written by winners. If, by some unfortunate accident the Greens will rule the world, than I'm sure that they'll be labeled as "heroes" and "pioneers".
Completely unseriously now:
I'm sure the whales would do it to us if they had a chance...so we shouldn't give them one.
I generally hate eco-activists since most (read most, not all) of the lot are fanatical ego-centrics with a 'high-'n-mighty' attitude. And for the most part their "solutions" are either infeasible, or would take much more time than they'd be willing to wait. And they tend to overblow some problems, although that is a problem of every activism nowadays.
The eco-bull aside tough, the actual idea of doing something that is widely opposed (or condemned) in name of what you believe in, is quite commendable. It is perceived because of that that the world has changed, for better or worse. It won't make you any less criminal, if it's something of a crime...but then again, history is written by winners. If, by some unfortunate accident the Greens will rule the world, than I'm sure that they'll be labeled as "heroes" and "pioneers".
Completely unseriously now:
I'm sure the whales would do it to us if they had a chance...so we shouldn't give them one.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
I dunno.
If they truly wanted to stand up for their cause. Wouldn't they be doing stuff that is well, more effective than this?
I mean, trying to bully a ship or two is not really that much of an effective means.
Things take time to change, and often trying to do stuff that forces the change will only make it worse for your cause in the long run.
If they truly wanted to stand up for their cause. Wouldn't they be doing stuff that is well, more effective than this?
I mean, trying to bully a ship or two is not really that much of an effective means.
Things take time to change, and often trying to do stuff that forces the change will only make it worse for your cause in the long run.
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Tbh Sea Shepherd are doing more harm than good with their antics, they look more like a bunch of asses attacking people doing their job, then play victim when the fisherman retaliate.
Though I'll give it to them that they have guts, unlike the Japanese government that doesn't seem to have a fibre of backbone to speak of - unable to speak up or say anything.
Though I'll give it to them that they have guts, unlike the Japanese government that doesn't seem to have a fibre of backbone to speak of - unable to speak up or say anything.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
spectre257 wrote...
Tbh Sea Shepherd are doing more harm than good with their antics, they look more like a bunch of asses attacking people doing their job, then play victim when the fisherman retaliate.Though I'll give it to them that they have guts, unlike the Japanese government that doesn't seem to have a fibre of backbone to speak of - unable to speak up or say anything.
It's not guts to bully someone.
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Brittany
Director of Production
I don't know, I don't hold nearly as much negative feeling towards groups such as Sea Shephard's.
Mostly because I know when it comes to Japan, holding a sign and complaining to the government about whaling, or dolphin killing for that matter falls to deaf ears. Japan has a mentality of "you can't tell us what we can or can't do."
There's one organization called the IWC (International Whaling Commission) that protects whaling and makes it so they only can have an X amount of whales hunted down. However, dolphins and porpoises are considered "small cessations" and are not included in the actual protection.
The IWC banned commercial whaling in 1986. One year later, Japan responded by tripling its kills of dolphins and porpoises and started lethal research programs on large whales. Basically what Japan does is go through loopholes of saying "Oh, well this is for scientific research" when yearly whale meat is sold in grocery markets. Ever since 1986, Japan has tried to overthrow that law and allow commercial whaling again.
John Fuller (the former IWC delegate for Antigua and Barbuda) has said that there's a reason why many countries favor Japan's wish to overturn the commercial whaling ban - and that reason is simply due to Japan's government paying their government. The Japanese government and agencies go to these countries who are hurting financially or suffering from lack of food and promise favors and goodies if they vote in Japan's favor.
So organizations similar as the Sea Shepherd's exposed Japan lying with movies like The Cove, trespassing, placing hidden camera's around the cove and getting real footage of really how they're killing dolphin's. For anyone who doesn't want to watch the entire movie, Japan's spokesman for IWC was literally speaking of how proud he was that the number of inhumane killings of dolphins was very minimal now. Spokesmen when questioned of how the dolphin's were killed after their group seeing the footage out right lied and said no, dolphin's were not killed the way they described. What they did was tie a television to themselves and walk into the IWC's meeting with the footage of the killings of stabbing, leaving to drown - drug up from the bottom after slowly dieing to every country sitting in that room.
This is the footage that the IWC's room got to see:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-M-TlTsqh8 in case the video doesn't work)
And I know, there's plenty of BAWWWWWW clips you can go see on how terrible animals are treated, and plenty of backwater places you can go see how a chicken's beak is clipped, or a cow abused. But unlike those videos, you can go to many more places with clean facilities with chickens and cows. This area is the largest exporter in the world of dolphin's, and literally the lucrative spot to buy a dolphin, and if it's not bought - it can be slaughtered for meat very freely because they're not considered part of IWC's concern.
When 'whaling for scientific purposes' grow rapidly in size after the commercial hunting ban falls into place - that's where the Sea Shepherd's go out during their whale hunting season and sabotage their whale meat, or even better make it so they're unable to hunt.
I can't be bothered to go look at who said "I find it funny how most of their tactics are used to poison the meat AFTER the whale was harpooned." and thought it was useless - that's not true. I specifically stated that the reason they DO that is so they CAN'T sell it commercially. Yeah, sure - they can still do their "scientific research", but they won't be selling it on the market, which makes it difficult for the whale hunters.
That's 428 whales that were saved, and this previous season was the first season that the Nisshin Maru and its fleet was so aggressive towards the Sea Shepherd's.
Mostly because I know when it comes to Japan, holding a sign and complaining to the government about whaling, or dolphin killing for that matter falls to deaf ears. Japan has a mentality of "you can't tell us what we can or can't do."
There's one organization called the IWC (International Whaling Commission) that protects whaling and makes it so they only can have an X amount of whales hunted down. However, dolphins and porpoises are considered "small cessations" and are not included in the actual protection.
The IWC banned commercial whaling in 1986. One year later, Japan responded by tripling its kills of dolphins and porpoises and started lethal research programs on large whales. Basically what Japan does is go through loopholes of saying "Oh, well this is for scientific research" when yearly whale meat is sold in grocery markets. Ever since 1986, Japan has tried to overthrow that law and allow commercial whaling again.
John Fuller (the former IWC delegate for Antigua and Barbuda) has said that there's a reason why many countries favor Japan's wish to overturn the commercial whaling ban - and that reason is simply due to Japan's government paying their government. The Japanese government and agencies go to these countries who are hurting financially or suffering from lack of food and promise favors and goodies if they vote in Japan's favor.
So organizations similar as the Sea Shepherd's exposed Japan lying with movies like The Cove, trespassing, placing hidden camera's around the cove and getting real footage of really how they're killing dolphin's. For anyone who doesn't want to watch the entire movie, Japan's spokesman for IWC was literally speaking of how proud he was that the number of inhumane killings of dolphins was very minimal now. Spokesmen when questioned of how the dolphin's were killed after their group seeing the footage out right lied and said no, dolphin's were not killed the way they described. What they did was tie a television to themselves and walk into the IWC's meeting with the footage of the killings of stabbing, leaving to drown - drug up from the bottom after slowly dieing to every country sitting in that room.
This is the footage that the IWC's room got to see:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-M-TlTsqh8 in case the video doesn't work)
And I know, there's plenty of BAWWWWWW clips you can go see on how terrible animals are treated, and plenty of backwater places you can go see how a chicken's beak is clipped, or a cow abused. But unlike those videos, you can go to many more places with clean facilities with chickens and cows. This area is the largest exporter in the world of dolphin's, and literally the lucrative spot to buy a dolphin, and if it's not bought - it can be slaughtered for meat very freely because they're not considered part of IWC's concern.
When 'whaling for scientific purposes' grow rapidly in size after the commercial hunting ban falls into place - that's where the Sea Shepherd's go out during their whale hunting season and sabotage their whale meat, or even better make it so they're unable to hunt.
I can't be bothered to go look at who said "I find it funny how most of their tactics are used to poison the meat AFTER the whale was harpooned." and thought it was useless - that's not true. I specifically stated that the reason they DO that is so they CAN'T sell it commercially. Yeah, sure - they can still do their "scientific research", but they won't be selling it on the market, which makes it difficult for the whale hunters.
Japan's whaling ships have returned from the Southern Ocean with their smallest catch in years, prompting the fleet's leader to blame harassment by the Sea Shepherd marine conservation group for the shortfall.
The Nisshin Maru, the fleet's mother ship, returned to Tokyo harbour yesterday with just 507 whales, a little over half the target catch of 935, according to the fisheries agency. The haul of minke whales and a single finback was well down on last year's catch of 680.
The Nisshin Maru, the fleet's mother ship, returned to Tokyo harbour yesterday with just 507 whales, a little over half the target catch of 935, according to the fisheries agency. The haul of minke whales and a single finback was well down on last year's catch of 680.
That's 428 whales that were saved, and this previous season was the first season that the Nisshin Maru and its fleet was so aggressive towards the Sea Shepherd's.
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Kalistean wrote...
spectre257 wrote...
Tbh Sea Shepherd are doing more harm than good with their antics, they look more like a bunch of asses attacking people doing their job, then play victim when the fisherman retaliate.Though I'll give it to them that they have guts, unlike the Japanese government that doesn't seem to have a fibre of backbone to speak of - unable to speak up or say anything.
It's not guts to bully someone.
No guts for annoying someone when there's a good chance their ship could be legitimately sunk because technically what they're doing constitutes piracy.
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Kind of Important
A ray of Tsunlight.
It's all about point of view really.
What gives those guys the right to go out and harass the Japanese whalers? It may not be their entire source of income but no doubt it has to provide income or they wouldn't waste time on it.
Regardless of what I did for a living if some chump took it as his right ( or thought it was for the betterment of one cause or another) to interrupt me or tried to screw me over so I made less money, I'd be pissed off too. No doubt the whalers will start being even more aggressive.
What gives those guys the right to go out and harass the Japanese whalers? It may not be their entire source of income but no doubt it has to provide income or they wouldn't waste time on it.
Regardless of what I did for a living if some chump took it as his right ( or thought it was for the betterment of one cause or another) to interrupt me or tried to screw me over so I made less money, I'd be pissed off too. No doubt the whalers will start being even more aggressive.