Fantasy can Never beat Reality as it lacks Truth?
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mibuchiha
Fakku Elder
ShaggyJebus wrote...
This reminds me of St. Alsem's ontological argument.Spoiler:
Not really related, I suppose.
As for which is better, fantasy or reality, it's a good argument to have. In a fantasy, you can do anything. Have sex with any person you want, in any environment you want, and do anything you want to him/her. But only in the real world can you actually touch another person and feel them touching you.
I think it's balanced. Fantasy is limitless, but reality is real. That said, if I had to choose between a fantasy pineapple and a real pineapple, I'm of course going to choose the real one.
Lol, we thought of the same thing. That argument instantly came up to me when I saw that "reality ish greaterrr" stuff....
And btw, if it's food, of course I'm gonna choose the real one. Although more often than not I try to imagine a better taste when I eat....
Btw, I think the problem in this issue is the same as the ontological argument...that is neatly put together by Kant. In summary....he argued that
Existence is not a predicate.
Or if you want the long one...
Spoiler:
So yeah, comparin' reality and fantasy by their existence is pointless.
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The moment that fantasy has beaten reality, and you live only for that fantasy, is the moment you lost yourself.
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Fantasy can have all the truths and morals of real life, and adds a speck of mystery or magic (or SCIENCE in cases of sci-fi) to expand the borders of a dull regular system or story, to make it look compelling and interesting.
The main problem is that there are only few who can truly send the same real message though the fantasy medium. Usually they just bend and exploit all that is special in fantasy just to bring up 1 or 2 obvious ideals, which some people find “deep”… and then the fanatism and fandomism starts…
P.S.
The stories we ideal these days were told a thousand times in old books… But have we heard of the old, dull 100time told love story… IN SPACE WITH NINJA PIRATES AND MAGIC? I think not…
P.S.S
Of sci-fi and fantasy I prefer the old stuff, the stuff that made the genre.
Pirates of the Caribbean you say? Well I say Captain Blood (1922)! And Blood would kick that Sparrow’s ass any time!
The main problem is that there are only few who can truly send the same real message though the fantasy medium. Usually they just bend and exploit all that is special in fantasy just to bring up 1 or 2 obvious ideals, which some people find “deep”… and then the fanatism and fandomism starts…
P.S.
The stories we ideal these days were told a thousand times in old books… But have we heard of the old, dull 100time told love story… IN SPACE WITH NINJA PIRATES AND MAGIC? I think not…
P.S.S
Of sci-fi and fantasy I prefer the old stuff, the stuff that made the genre.
Pirates of the Caribbean you say? Well I say Captain Blood (1922)! And Blood would kick that Sparrow’s ass any time!
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Good responses, I like :)
I am glad somone quoted Kant because like many philosophers he had a good stab at trying to define the point of seperation between fantasy and reality. Yet I think that the 'problem' also partly comes from the fact real objects make all our senses 'feel' them while fantasy at best stimulates our visual and aural (hearing) senses. Yet when we get to the nitty gritty how can we say that something that stimulates less senses is not as real as something that stimulates more of them.
I still believe reality is superior to fantasy yet I think the reason fantasy has such a hold on us has a lot to do with the fact that all our understanding comes from our brain and our thoughts, thus if we can say that our thoughts are real then how can we resist thoughts that may seem more akin to dreams then 'reality'?
I am glad somone quoted Kant because like many philosophers he had a good stab at trying to define the point of seperation between fantasy and reality. Yet I think that the 'problem' also partly comes from the fact real objects make all our senses 'feel' them while fantasy at best stimulates our visual and aural (hearing) senses. Yet when we get to the nitty gritty how can we say that something that stimulates less senses is not as real as something that stimulates more of them.
I still believe reality is superior to fantasy yet I think the reason fantasy has such a hold on us has a lot to do with the fact that all our understanding comes from our brain and our thoughts, thus if we can say that our thoughts are real then how can we resist thoughts that may seem more akin to dreams then 'reality'?
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TheDarkStarAlchemist
Requests Moderator
Well first off, beat how? Beat as in physically or by force? A fight? Or beat as in the amount of truth it contains?
If you are talking about a fight, I believe that that is it extremely obvious that no amount of reality can beat fantasy. Fantasy has no laws, so it can do everything and anything that it wants. In reality, if a trained swordsman can wield a sword better than anyone in the world, then in fantasy there is a man who wields a sword of impossible dimensions and weight and can swing than a fighter jet can fly. If these two were to fight, then the fantasy swordsman would obviously win. And even if the writer/thinker of the fantasy makes laws, there always is an exception somewhere. The only argument that anyone can pose is that all or most fantasy is based on some degree of reality or something in reality.
If You are talking about the amount of truth one or the other contains in general, then obviously reality is going to have the upper hand. Since fantasy always contains a bit of the impossible, and reality is real, then the truth lies in reality. That fantasy swordsman is all powerful and mighty, but if he can never actually exist, then the real swordsman would be technically victorious. But, whereas all fantasy is based somewhere in reality or on a concept in reality, it is also true that some reality has its base in fantasy. Some things that we use everyday, or that might have just been invented/created might be based of of a creation in someone's fantasy.
We often like to absorb ourselves in fantasy due to an innumerable number of reason. Whether it be to satisfy a want, or to have an escape, or just simple to satisfy momentary boredom. For me, whom has a great lack of spice in my life, I have always turned to fantasy to satisfy. Fantasy never lets me down. I guess that says a little something about the type of person I am and how I live my life.
On the concept of "truth", it is situational.
So to answer your question, Yes. I believe fantasy can beat reality regardless of the fact that lacks truth.
If you are talking about a fight, I believe that that is it extremely obvious that no amount of reality can beat fantasy. Fantasy has no laws, so it can do everything and anything that it wants. In reality, if a trained swordsman can wield a sword better than anyone in the world, then in fantasy there is a man who wields a sword of impossible dimensions and weight and can swing than a fighter jet can fly. If these two were to fight, then the fantasy swordsman would obviously win. And even if the writer/thinker of the fantasy makes laws, there always is an exception somewhere. The only argument that anyone can pose is that all or most fantasy is based on some degree of reality or something in reality.
If You are talking about the amount of truth one or the other contains in general, then obviously reality is going to have the upper hand. Since fantasy always contains a bit of the impossible, and reality is real, then the truth lies in reality. That fantasy swordsman is all powerful and mighty, but if he can never actually exist, then the real swordsman would be technically victorious. But, whereas all fantasy is based somewhere in reality or on a concept in reality, it is also true that some reality has its base in fantasy. Some things that we use everyday, or that might have just been invented/created might be based of of a creation in someone's fantasy.
We often like to absorb ourselves in fantasy due to an innumerable number of reason. Whether it be to satisfy a want, or to have an escape, or just simple to satisfy momentary boredom. For me, whom has a great lack of spice in my life, I have always turned to fantasy to satisfy. Fantasy never lets me down. I guess that says a little something about the type of person I am and how I live my life.
On the concept of "truth", it is situational.
So to answer your question, Yes. I believe fantasy can beat reality regardless of the fact that lacks truth.
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Fantasy can be good. You can learn things by imagining. For example, you can imagine what your life would be like if you did or did not take a job in a far away place, and then make your decision based on your imaginings. However, fantasy has a fatal flaw in this respect - because it is fantasy, it is not governed by any rules. It doesn't exist in an actual world, so all sorts of things may happen in the real world that did not happen in your fantasy, even if you spent hours upon hours conjuring up the fantasy.
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TheDarkStarAlchemist
Requests Moderator
ShaggyJebus wrote...
Fantasy can be good. You can learn things by imagining. For example, you can imagine what your life would be like if you did or did not take a job in a far away place, and then make your decision based on your imaginings. However, fantasy has a fatal flaw in this respect - because it is fantasy, it is not governed by any rules. It doesn't exist in an actual world, so all sorts of things may happen in the real world that did not happen in your fantasy, even if you spent hours upon hours conjuring up the fantasy.So you're saying that fantasy doesn't have a flaw, it is a flaw?
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I was about to say something but I read a few posts and got completely fucking confused. Can somebody do a dumbed-down summary of what we're talking about? xD
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ShaggyJebus wrote...
Fantasy can be good. You can learn things by imagining. For example, you can imagine what your life would be like if you did or did not take a job in a far away place, and then make your decision based on your imaginings. However, fantasy has a fatal flaw in this respect - because it is fantasy, it is not governed by any rules. It doesn't exist in an actual world, so all sorts of things may happen in the real world that did not happen in your fantasy, even if you spent hours upon hours conjuring up the fantasy.Conversely, the same thing can be said. All sorts of things may occur in the real world that didn't happen in your fantasy. Moreover, there is no denying the possibility that the same exact thing could occur in either the real world or fantasy.
Fantasy does exist in a world, just not the world we live in. Its important to remember, although the world isn't "real," the possibility of real things occurring still exists.
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Fantasy is everything for me to be honest.
In reality I just wake up and exist. Wouldn't care if it was my last one, not missing out on anything. Who knows I might awake in a better place.
Fantasy created by Visual Novels, Anime, Games (MMO's) or whatever can really great an awesome atmosphere that gives me such a warm feeling inside. I pretty much live the day thinking 'soon I will be home and able to delve back into my own world' ....which sadly takes place behind my PC.
Because of that people often think I might be a bit addicted to the Internet, but they're wrong. It's just the only device for me to get stuff.
But yeah, in short; Life sucks, go fantasy (aka perfection in your own mind)
In reality I just wake up and exist. Wouldn't care if it was my last one, not missing out on anything. Who knows I might awake in a better place.
Fantasy created by Visual Novels, Anime, Games (MMO's) or whatever can really great an awesome atmosphere that gives me such a warm feeling inside. I pretty much live the day thinking 'soon I will be home and able to delve back into my own world' ....which sadly takes place behind my PC.
Because of that people often think I might be a bit addicted to the Internet, but they're wrong. It's just the only device for me to get stuff.
But yeah, in short; Life sucks, go fantasy (aka perfection in your own mind)
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Raikadashi wrote...
I was about to say something but I read a few posts and got completely fucking confused. Can somebody do a dumbed-down summary of what we're talking about? xDQuite simply we are saying which one we prefer and why (although of course being a forum of people who prefer hentai to real porn its obvious what most people here prefer :p).
Just put down why you prefer what you prefer if the philisophical mumbo jumbo confuses you ;)
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TheDarkStarAlchemist
Requests Moderator
Dirty wrote...
Fantasy is everything for me to be honest. In reality I just wake up and exist. Wouldn't care if it was my last one, not missing out on anything. Who knows I might awake in a better place.
Fantasy created by Visual Novels, Anime, Games (MMO's) or whatever can really great an awesome atmosphere that gives me such a warm feeling inside. I pretty much live the day thinking 'soon I will be home and able to delve back into my own world' ....which sadly takes place behind my PC.
Because of that people often think I might be a bit addicted to the Internet, but they're wrong. It's just the only device for me to get stuff.
But yeah, in short; Life sucks, go fantasy (aka perfection in your own mind)
So you would off yourself If you knew you'd go into a world of fantasy created by your own mind?
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Fantasy destroys reality. In some ways. For one in fantasy you have everything. Anything you need all the power, women (men), whatever. In reality you do not have that. You must work for it. In fantasy You have whatever you belive exists (you cant be wrong). In reality you can be wrong and due to this can be called stupid or be held back in society. In fantasy YOU are supreme and YOU can do anything. You can be hyper intelligent, Powerfull, ect.
Now how reality beats fantasy. One reality is real. You have human interaction in fantasy there is none. In reality you can have things that are true and unchanging. in fantasy things change as you do. If you feel like changing it, it changes. In reality you have true emotion, not the fake emotion inventied by you to please you like in fantasy. Also you have to work for things in reality unlike fantasy. This can give a sense of satisfaction. Even though in fantasy you could get it with a thought or what have you.
This is my thought on how fantasy is better than reality. In some ways.
Now how reality beats fantasy. One reality is real. You have human interaction in fantasy there is none. In reality you can have things that are true and unchanging. in fantasy things change as you do. If you feel like changing it, it changes. In reality you have true emotion, not the fake emotion inventied by you to please you like in fantasy. Also you have to work for things in reality unlike fantasy. This can give a sense of satisfaction. Even though in fantasy you could get it with a thought or what have you.
This is my thought on how fantasy is better than reality. In some ways.
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Jericho Antares
FAKKU Writer
Fantasy supplements and enhances reality. By having fantasies of something great we can set the goal of bringing it about in our reality. Granted, some fantasies would be indeed impossible to replicate no matter how hard you try, but in the end fantasy is always metaphor.
Fantasy and reality can't beat each other because they fuel each other. A dull reality breeds fantasy, and the amazing feelings from the fantasy are used to enrich the reality.
Fantasy and reality can't beat each other because they fuel each other. A dull reality breeds fantasy, and the amazing feelings from the fantasy are used to enrich the reality.
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I have to say Jericho summed this pretty well. They are apart of each other and you cant have one without the other.
But fantasy is sooo badass.
But fantasy is sooo badass.
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Reality is whatever you want it to be. There is no such thing as a reality, as reality is based off logic, and logic cannot be proven true. Are delusions fake or actually reality? Is your very existence existing, or do you just think it exists? It is impossible to define the existence of reality.
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Truth be told, it's really hard nowadays to tell between reality and fantasy, because this world as we know it can just be a part of that fantasy in itself...we never know for sure...So it's really hard to answer what you want an opinion on I'd think.
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The thing about fantasy is that, it's not real. Every fantasy has to come to an end sooner or later. As for reality, it may suck at times, but since it's in the real where you have actual control (to an extent) of what's going on, you're always in a position to change it.
To quote a song from Suicidal Tendencies "Can you say "feel like shit?" Yea maybe sometimes I do feel like shit! I aint happy about it, but I'd rather feel like shit, than be full of shit!"
To quote a song from Suicidal Tendencies "Can you say "feel like shit?" Yea maybe sometimes I do feel like shit! I aint happy about it, but I'd rather feel like shit, than be full of shit!"
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I personally believe that reality is just fantasy given shape. Before the airplane was invented, flying for humans was just a mere fantasy. But because humans fantasized and imagined to fly, they were inspired to innovate. So in conclusion, I do not believe that fantasy cannot beat reality because they do not clash. Instead they collaborate inside our imaginations and inspire us to evolve.
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TheDarkStarAlchemist wrote...
Dirty wrote...
Fantasy is everything for me to be honest. In reality I just wake up and exist. Wouldn't care if it was my last one, not missing out on anything. Who knows I might awake in a better place.
Fantasy created by Visual Novels, Anime, Games (MMO's) or whatever can really great an awesome atmosphere that gives me such a warm feeling inside. I pretty much live the day thinking 'soon I will be home and able to delve back into my own world' ....which sadly takes place behind my PC.
Because of that people often think I might be a bit addicted to the Internet, but they're wrong. It's just the only device for me to get stuff.
But yeah, in short; Life sucks, go fantasy (aka perfection in your own mind)
So you would off yourself If you knew you'd go into a world of fantasy created by your own mind?
Yes, if it was 100% positive I'd awake in such a place I'd be willing to take such a step.