Government and contraception

I think abortion is as evil as what Batman did to the Joker (poor bloke couldn't understand what he was saying). I think that mothers feel horrible when they abort children and regret the decision. I know fathers that secretly resent mothers for doing the same action. I think that it's murder.

I also believe that a women has a right to her body. Those are my opinions.

For this poll, the government should stop wasting money on helping girls have fucking abortions because my money is being used on whores, rapist, teens, children, and all this other shit that is all fine and dandy, but wow! I've never even gotten the benefits of a whore, they should give me a free ride if I'm paying child support. If the condom broke it's not the kids fault, it's mine and I have to step up. (sarcasm) blah, blah, blah.

Closing statements. I don't want to pay for all the baggage that comes along with babies. I don't like poor people having kids. I think the government should actively stop these unwanted monsters that take up so much money with a preemptive strike that nukes them. Religions that are against it don't make sense to me. Abortion is murder. We can't stop abortion, it's like weed. We can make a super drug and give it out for free to everyone, no permission slip required to stop wasting money and potential life.

Is this a waste of government money?
Would you let your child use it?
Do you think we are ok the way that we are? [list]

Sorry, just saying, "Oh, here's a baby for you that you probably didn't even want, have fun with it!" doesn't help either.

If anything, it just leaves a bunch of children that will either be neglected by their parents, raised poorly, or left at orphanages. Sure, there will be the rare family that goes fine, but 95% of the time there would be problems.

And, just like every other contraceptive, the pill isn't always gonna work, and it would probably have other side effects if it was made as inexpensive as you stated.

The thing is, what if those women were victims of rape and forced to carry a child they did not want?

Say if they were about 14 and they were in labor but they could risk death because their bodies were too small to push the baby out and their only option for survival was to have an abortion.

Quadratic, what the hell are you talking about in your first paragraph? I don't know why you're snapping at me, I believe you misunderstood what I was saying, I will try to make it clear. I want the super-bad ass contraceptive to eliminate unwanted babies. Take out the problem at the root and stop the little sucker from ever fertilizing that poor teen girl. If she was raped that sucks, she can still get an abortion. If she is sexually active, let her know that a pill is available that gives her the option of not getting pregnant. Donky Face, no insult intended about the name, my belief is that abortions should always be available to those who need it, especially the raped. Back on topic, I'm trying to say that if we have the cash to spend on abortion help centers, foster homes, and other state funded things, that we should go the extra mile to stop the mistake before it happens. If you want to stop a leak you don't just put buckets where the water drops. You patch the roof.

Quadratic: why would we use a pill that didn't work? Baby oil works and it's cheap ass hell. Wants we figures it out, (won't be that hard, it's already been made basically) mass production should be easy. Of course we would test it. A question for you, why don't you want it to work; do you love using abortion?

At first I voted yes on impulse, because it seemed like a good idea, but now I've actually read the thread and thought about it I wanna change my mind.

No contraceptive is 100% effective, and if the drug is inexpensive chances are it's going to be cheaply made, which could have disastrous side-effects over a long period of time. Not to mention that it'd cost money just to try to stop us all from making babies as fast as we are. True enough there's abortion to sort that little "problem", but there are the girls who also think that Abortion is murder and refuse to do it because of their ideological differences.

The only real solid solution to 100% effective contraception at the moment is just to not have sex, but that's like trying to stop the tide, not many people are going to do that. And there are cases where that's completely out of their control, like getting raped. The next best thing that I've heard of so far is the morning-after pill.

Another reason I wanted to change my mind is because it's easy enough to say we want something for free, but the difficult part is convincing the companies who produce the drug, who spend on making it, to give it away for free. I mean, if I had a product which could change people's lives, I'd want to at least make some money off it.

Personally I don't think abortion is murder but I don't think we can see eye-to-eye on that.

Its not like governments (on a world scale) don't spend any money on contraceptive research. A lot of universities and research centres work on developing better and safer pills. (See spoiler for links)



But the nature of the beast is that we are messing around with chemicals to make our bodies react the way we want them to, so there is going to be risk as well as trial an error in the process.

Take EPIC(European Prospective Investigation of Cancer)'s findings for example. A certain pill may lower risk of ovarian cancer at the cost of increased risk to breast cancer.

Even with research into contraceptive pills, to my knowledge there is no 100% no matter how many times you have sex certain way to not get pregnant other than just not having sex at all. (Even pills will allow ovulation up to like 1% or 2% of the time) Ultimately we want a pill that would make us essentially sterile without any side-effects but I just don't see that happening..ever.

So until such a miracle pill comes along abortion is going to have to stay an option and cheaper, faster, and safer ways of getting one will naturally come with it. It doesn't really matter if the government pays for it or not. Take this for example.



Personally I would rather invest into a pill that cures all kinds of cancer.

Let me state this clearly. This. Pill. Will. Work. Birth control cost 15-50$ a month. If we make a government program, and got the people informed about it. People from all over the world would come together to make a perfect pill. It will be tested like every other pill is. Cheap or inexpensive are words that I should not have used, I mean that the government will provide the pills for free. We pay taxes, so we will be paying for the pill, but would you rather pay for foster, abortion, and child-care,(all somewhere in ur taxes) or for pills? I could live with 90% effective and at least the option would be there. Not having sex is the only solid solution, but it's not gonna happen. If a girl thinks abortion is wrong, but wants to have sex, then she would fully endorse my plan. I love how you are trying to find solutions, pessimism pisses me off. The morning-after pill sounds awesome to me, especially for raped girls, but it's not something that should be depended on as a regular contraceptive.

Contraception is wonderful. But there are still issues with the pill. We know for sure it does not replace the condom. And I also hear it could affect a woman's health in bad ways.

I believe more funding should be spent improving contraception, rather than promoting it in its current state.

Lishy1 I completely agree with you. After reading the links provided by the lovely Butterfly, I'm going to say that are best bet would be a pill for males, but we wouldn't want to be sexes, so we should work on improving both. Butterfly, I think that you want to agree with me, and your research shows that it is possible. You said that you would rather work on cancer, I think that cancer is far less likely to be solved in our life times. The fact that it needs to be done is something we can agree on. Cancer is another problem that we should solve for the sake of the life at stake, the medical bills are astronomical. I think contraception is a more practical goal though, it's something easy to get behind. It would solve a lot of problems in the long-run, but unlike cancer, we would see the change in the next generation. I get your point that we could focus efforts on other things, but I picked this one because it's current and it's not full of political bullshit. It would save a lot of lives, it would save a lot of money, and it would be done in the foreseeable future.

Well, while I think abortion and Stem-Cell research are perfectly fine, notice the fact on overpopulation any how many neglected kids there are. And I do agree however, that contraception should no be free, UNLESS the person who needs it is in a situation where they have to take it, ex. the Birth of the child could kill them or girl was raped and child was to be born. But if they have sex will-nilly or the condom breaks, they should have to pay for it.

I'm a bad person who doesn't give a shit about good or bad, I care about money and justice and liberty. I believe in only a couple of instances when abortion is justifiable, but I think stem-cell research is bad-ass. Sue me for being complex(sarcasm). GodofAethism your name is like me lol a big contradiction. I think that you are just horrible though, if you see neglected kids, but are so short-sighted that you won't help to take care of the problem then I have all the time in the world to tell you to change your opinion and to use your common sense. If you aren't paying for one, then you are paying for the other. Do you want to pay millions to keep poor people from having kids in the first place, or pay billions to support poor people with 12 kids living off of food stamps? Pay millions or pay billions? Be smart or be a baby killing, economy destroying, short-sighted, bum supporting lunatic. The choice is yours

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraceptive_availability_by_country .

If a tax-funded program were indeed made to invent a new pill, the research and development costs would incur huge costs, as they do with all pharmaceuticals. In fact, this is the main reason for the exorbitant prices of most medicines. That being said, it would necessitate a raise in taxes, especially if it was given away for free. It is not in my best interest to support such a program, first because it's not like birth control is a life-threatening medical issue, and second because I don't want my taxes funding the fuck-up of some dude who couldn't control where he stuck his penis. Don't get me wrong, I am liberal-minded, being pro-universal healthcare, but this would be simply be outrageous, and I ask all "yes" voters to strongly reconsider their initial thoughts.

Note: This thread isn't necessarily about abortion.

Not this shit again...

This calls for Carlin:

Luke Piewalker, a pill would be in your best interest because it would lower your taxes later. The reason your taxes are so high now, is because of some guy who couldn't control his dick. That guy had 200 children, and you are now supporting his happy life. Food stamps ain't cheap :) Darkblack beautiful argument and I agree with it. Though I think that you agree with me too. The federal government starting this type of initiative would improve life all over the world as people followed the U.S.'s example. Child birth rates would plummet, the middle class would be so much stronger, and people would be more happy. (no condom sex makes me happy ;) and most of the girls I know love having man cum smeared in their insides without worrying about a little problem). The state would completely stop this though, just like Darkblack said :) but my question is not about the likely hood of this coming to a reality. It's about acknowledging that this would be an intelligent decision that would save many lives (aborted babies) and save a lot of money in the long run. And Flasher's video goes completely with what I was saying earlier about how narrow minded and self serving people can be.

Hmm...this is a very, very interesting scenario. I'd really have to think twice if I were to vote on this. If this superpill were possible, my gut reaction would to be all for it, especially since it can be used on both men and women. But here's where I have to stop and think: if we are to suppose this pill was a miracle pill that would stop pregnancies in its tracks 100%, how could this even be used? How do you know that the government wouldn't just be shoving pills down random peoples' throats? How can the government even determine who would be "at risk" for unwanted pregnancies? There are too many ethical issues that could pose a problem to passing the development of this drug (not to mention biological and pharmaceutical nightmares, and the length of time it would take to even create this drug...but that's not the issue at hand).

I think that my main concern is how the government chooses which citizens get this drug. Would it even be reversible, if it were determined that you are "at risk for having unwanted children"? There are a number of people in the world who I hope don't breed, but perhaps there are some people who DO want children and don't care if they're suitable parents or not. How would you be able to fight the government's creed at that point? How awful it would be if I was told that I cannot have children, because statistics show that Asians have more than the average number of children per year...or if a man was told he was "at risk" for creating unwanted fetuses because he's poor?

In addition, administering a miracle drug to prevent unwanted pregnancies seems to be more reason to cut sex ed in schools...and once kids don't have to care about how their bodies work in the long run, would they be equipped to have an idea of how to prevent the process themselves aside from taking the pill?

Personally, I wouldn't be for it. As others have stated, there are other things I'd rather have my tax dollars spent on. Don't get me wrong -- I'm about as liberal as they come and I am all for giving people the power to choose, but you must admit...you can't rely on EVERYONE to make the "right choice", simply because that varies from person to person.

I would, however, be interested to hear how the government would advertise and administer the drug to the public.

Anatsumi, taking the pill would be completely voluntary. If you thought it was wrong, then you wouldn't have to take it, if you actually wanted children, then of course you wouldn't take it. The government would just be acting as a catalyst to get the product made, and it could be distributed by mail request. This pill would be created to cut down on, key word, "unwanted" pregnancies. Taking the pill would be a continual process just like the pill we have now, gradually the affects would ware off and you could return to having tons of welfare babies :) Even at the risk of being redundant, I repeat the pill is being given away, not crammed down the throats of those who didn't want it. I'm sad to say that the easiest and most inexpensive way to get the word out on the pill is through the school system. We would be deliberately targeting the group most at risk for unwanted pregnancies, a lot of parents wouldn't like that. It would be ethically questionable, and it would work extremely well. Parents don't want to think that their children need birth control. Therefore getting the pill at a young age would require a parental consent form, a legit one. All federal institutes would also be informed about it, and of course the media would have fun with it :D advertising would be no problem. There is probably a better way to distribute it.

Hmm, well, if you put it that way, it sounds like contraception today: completely voluntary, and for those who don't want children, it will work as long as the individual acts. Because of that, I don't see how this could lower the unwanted pregnancy rate anymore than it already has. I don't know how aware people are actually having abortions, but to me, it seems like whoever is saying it (whether it be those who are for or against abortions) will make it seem like everyone is getting an abortion left and right, which of course isn't the case.

In my mind, there are still the kind of people who poke holes in condoms so they can get things like child support. In this case, no, the child is NOT unwanted...but that child is wanted for the wrong reasons. I understand that the argument is for or against this method of supercontraception in the place of abortion, but even if it existed, I still think taxpayer dollars would be going to welfare programs anyway.

Now, let's take a look at Japan. The birth rate there is plummeting ridiculously fast. The government does NOT want that, because they get their tax money from people, and without more kids being born, well, the economy goes down as well. And it's not because they have a supercontraceptive or because they're having abortions all the time. It's because the people in the age group expected to have children DO NOT want to have kids. An alarming rate of Japanese 20-30 somethings are called "parasite singles" and would rather stay at home, save money, and buy luxury items. They are not looking for a family at all. In this case, it is the attitude of an entire culture that has caused the decrease in birth rate.

Regardless of the advances we may have in our medical system, I still don't think it makes sense for the government to push something like "better birth control". Surely, it would help, but I feel like it would just become another option to those who want it...and I really doubt that it would do away with abortions. There are still some people who believe that all forms of contraception are wrong, after all, and they'd rather do away with all forms. And like I said before, there ARE some people out there who will manipulate a relationship with a child, even if they can't afford that child...and that's when welfare programs start coming up. Though there is a chance the middle class might get stronger with the idea of a supercontraceptive, I don't know if it's really the route to be taken with immediacy.

I think you underestimate the power of the word free. Not only that, but since the pill is for both sexes, the whole poke a hole in the condom thing wouldn't work anymore. I say that by making this pill the number of aborted babies will fall drastically lower. The number of children in foster care will plummet. There would be less people taking advantage of government sponsored accommodations, nuff said