Holy taxes

In my country(Greece) we are asked to pay yet again, additional taxes.(3rd time this year)
But this time it targets even those bellow poor standards and the unemployed, basically they are taxing everyone's house value and it's gonna come in the next bill of electricity.
Net result... thousands houses will lose access to electricity since their owners can't afford the heavy tax, while already ~12.000 houses stopped paying for electricity this year.(prior tax announcement)
This made me remember a discussion that our Prime Minister started over taxing Orthodox church ~2 years ago, to release some pressure off the middle class and bellow, but the church quickly shut it down marking it as blasphemy and a war on Christianity.
So the Orthodox church currently can sit on top its enormous amount of assets while the country slowly returns to the Dark Ages.
The straw that brakes the camel's back is that Orthodox priests in Greece are "labeled" as government employees, and they are paid by our taxes.(by a law written under military dictatorship 40 years ago)
So, by avoiding taxing for religious institutions we end up with:
Powerful churches that grow richer every day.
For every tax 1X currency they don't pay you and I pay it on its behalf.
An easily exploitable system that leads to even bigger cost for the tax payer.
And a question for Americans.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
Isn't exempting religious institutions from paying any taxes, a case of Congress making a law that "respects an establishment of religion"?

Discuss away

Geez, is everyone in Greece employeed by the government???

Why not just take the Clergy off the payrole of the government, let them take their pay from the congregation, and then continue to not tax them?

Also, no because the government isn't singling out a specific religion. Also, clergy and pastors are required to pay taxes on whatever they make. It would actually be more tricky to tax a church, as the money it makes is really just a giant pot of money that everyone is basically saying, "Okay, lets all pitch in and use our money to help the community/pay our bills/keep the lights on in this building". If they taxed tithes, the people could just avoid it by saying, it isn't like they are trying to make a profit.

A CHURCH IS TAXED IF it used the money to open a gym or something, then charge people to use the gym - but only on the gym's profit, not on the tithes the people pay. They would not get taxed if the gym was completely free to the public since, they are providing a service to the community.

Really, the government benefits from giving them the tax exemption as the church is being a huge help to the community. Therefore, the government just views religious organizations as nonprofit organizations, and chooses not to tax them.

The argument to tax churches is a weak one, and really anyone who argues it should sort of has to argue that we tax all nonprofit organizations - a policy most people think is impractical as well as sorta... well just not very nice.

Even so, some people feel that Churches should get taxed, and that it is unconsitutional to let them be tax exempt. However, since most people have sympathy towards religious institutions (of all faiths) and those same people elect their representitives, AND representitives get to make the laws, thi policy it hasn't and probably never will seriously be questioned.

I only know all this some of this because my Uncle is a pastor haha.

If churches engages in charitable work that benefits the community, they are good candidates for tax-exemption but it still doesn't compare with a nonprofit organization because of a big difference.
Nonprofit organization's activities and finances can be checked by IRS any given time, but in case of church... the book is closed.
So what if churches do not engage in charitable work?
Or do so far less efficiently?
It's a tax dodge that sometimes uses a few "good works" to justify its existence.

No, churches get checked by the IRS all the time, very closely in fact. My Uncle had aduits preformed all the time on his church. A church in the US has to report every last dime they get, and priest have gone to court for not doing so.

Also, more on a legal basis, when you do tax someone, it is a form of regulation, and regulating religious organizations would be a tricky thing to do since it would raise constitutional questions. The government will never try in anyway to regulate a religious body.

That is one reason I pointed out that it must be a very different situation in Greece. It would be unthinkable to have priest on the government payroll. There is no government organization that oversees, regulates, certifies, or in anyway intrudes on what religious organizations do, and there is no way for a priest to get any form of recognition that he is a "professional priest" or something to that effect. (Although, you can list it as an occupation - but you can do the same with the title, "Rodeo Clown" or "Martian Hunter")

Greece religious institution have no taxes? ......

It's the same in the US.

US too! i didn't even know... learned somethin' today

I was flipping channels today and happened on the 700 club beggung for money. it was like a chain letter. some stooge was talking about how she found a ten spot in her pants while doing the laundry. she said she never leaves money in her pockets so it must have been god sending her a message to "donate" to cbn. so she sent a buck to them and wouldn't you know, they inheirited 10g's from her dead granny. proof. next she sent a cool bill to that "church", and suddenly her hubby's construction contractor business sudenly took off. more proof. i was half expecting the other half of the chain letter theme next. random hick schmoe says, "i decided to keep my moneys and then the devil butt raped me! well that's what i get for not sending my money to cbn."

could someone explaine how they should be tax exempt?


also relevant:

Nowadays, at least in America, the majority of religious establishments are ran essentially as nonprofit organizations. Most of the time they are relying on the actual community they are servicing for donations with the religious workers (Priests and Pastors and such) getting a small stipend to help with living expenses.

Unless you are in a relatively rich community with generous people, or vain people, you are looking at a very meek budget at best for the vast majority of them.

It's usually only when you start getting to the upper levels of 'management' in each one that you see people having a more lavish budget.

Of course, the situation in Greece is complete bs and either the Churches need to be taxed, or they need to not receive monetary gains from taxes.

Some US policies would help. Seperation of church and state to stop the church from being on government payroll. At the risk of getting off topic stop there. A word of warning though; 'It seems that you seek to place all your blame on the church and there is danger in such a course. Taking the correct path of action is important, but not at the cost of anothers rights'

Well they should start paying taxes I guess, I dont see why they should be an exception, but before that they should stop asking for donations and shit, the religious principle is that beliving is free and that everybody has the right to belive and to pay nothing, it really pisses me off when I see such things, in the end religion is about money like everything else, if someone belives in god he can do it at home too there is no need to support the church, they are people like we are, and if god really exists I'm quite sure he never said to collect money for his sake.

The clause means that the Government can not adopt a state religion (similar to European countries adopting the religion of the king or queen at the time way back in the day). Also it tied the hands of the Government to prevent them persecuting people who followed a different religion than those in power (similar to catholic persecution under Henry the VIII of England)

If you want to get extremely literal in it's interpretation. The Government currently has a process that religious organizations have to go through in order to be recognized. Under literal interpretations the government shouldn't be involved in what is to be recognized as a religion and what can't.



This logic doesn't make sense. Originally, donations to the church were used for the upkeep of the church and donations to the poor. There is a specific terms for the person who distributes the money but, for the life of me I can't remember it. That was the reason why churches did not pay taxes because the money was not for profit. If the church is hoarding money then the government should keep it's hands off but, at the same time the church and it's clergy should be removed from the government dole.

US Law regarding tax exemption of organizations (Full Text 26USC501)

Churches are essentially bulletproof to taxes unless they do something wrong like getting involved financially in politics for example. Full Text



You can claim donations to charities (including churches or other religious non-profits) as a deductible on your taxes. (Full Text)

My looking around on the Hellenic Republic Ministry of Finance site led me to nothing about tax exemptions for charity in Greece. I'm sure its there somewhere I just cant guarantee its written in English (I bet it is though since almost everything else is in english and greek)

Not quite what I was referring to in the part you quoted. There is a specific term for the member of the church who distributes the tithes, offerings to the poor. It's some official title and for the life of me I can not remember it and Google is not helping me one iota.

The thing is you already have stuff like the red cross, maybe in the medieval times the church collected things for the poor, now that action isnt that necessary anymore, also I dont belive that it actually goes to the poor, the same for those organizations, if you look at how many people are donating it kinda seems fake already seeing so many poor people around. I seriously doubt that there isnt some dirty business going on as well for the church and for the organizations, todays system works on how much profit you can make so I doubt that they dont add something to their pockets from that money, plus the pope earns a huge amount of money everywhere where he shows his face, its like Guns and Roses on tour... Honestly there is no way that they arent earning something from it.

I honestly can't take this statement seriously. You are implying that charitable organizations such as habitat for humanity, Red Cross, Doctors without boarders, various cancer and disease foundations, local religious sects and others are into some sort of dirty business. What kind of "dirty business" could this organizations be into? Do you have any examples?

No I'm implying that they all do it for free... Of course they dont! Basically there is a profit behind it, well maybe local religious sects really are doing it for free, but anything on a larger scale? I highly doubt that, but let me just clear something, I'm not saying that everyone is taking their share, sure there are doctors and people who help, who do it just for the sake of helping, but those who deal with the financial part, or those who are at the top that organize it are surely earning something, they might refuse to say its true but a businessman is there for the business, there will always be someone who gets the cash. As for church itself, there hasnt been a greater thief and murderer that got away with it in the history of human kind. How many people have died in the past under the name of God, just how many people lost everything they had because of them? A huge organization or system needs the money and power to stand, while there are many people who would help for free, there are just as many who take the money insted of those. People in Africa have lived for ages without any problems until the white man came, and now they are suddenly dying, they are sick etc. Why didnt they just leave them be, so they can live like they used to? But no, now they have to fix what they have done, there is never enough money for food, but UNICEF is donating goddamn technical devices to them that they have no use for instead of food and medical help. I think that its logically correct to say that rarely somebody will do something for free, there was once a case in America where a priest influenced people with religion and got donations(millions!)from people so they can go to heaven if something happens, it was a fraud. If just one man can do something like that what do organizations do?

I have to vote on the side of they should be taxed. In all honesty having religious institutions getting away without paying taxes is on the lines of hospitals remaining "non profit".

I'd go with option B cus religions make a living out of working for the community and recieving what little pocket change the have with them and make a living out of that, I think that is one of the main reasons.

Not all hospitals are "non-profit" there is a large difference between for profit hospitals and non-profit hospitals. That's like comparing the Church of Scientology and Old world Franciscan monks.